BBC HLS & Marantz (M-CR610) no fix!

[SiUK]

I've been waiting and waiting for a flamin' fix (new firmware) from Marantz for my M-CR610 units to reenable the functionality that the BBC - without notice - hobbled by switching to HLS streams and dumping WMA. I use(d) the Internet Radio feature of the M-CR610s extensively (now have one in every room in fact). And made good use of the archived programmes listed for each station. It was brilliant. And apart from using the M-CR610 to play my flac music library on my NAS the Internet Radio feature was used most. But no longer. And it seems that there will NEVER be a solution as Marantz tell me they can't fix it!?? It feels like my 610s are barely out of the box - even though I've had them a little while now - and a big part of their usefulness has been removed. Not pleased at all.

Anyone else here suffering with this wretched issue? Nothing I can do of course. Supplier of my Hi-Fi said there would firmware fixes but alas after a long wait I phoned Marantz onlt to be told the bad news.

 

[chebby]

Anyone else here suffering with this wretched issue?

No.

Right from the 'get-go' I have always used the BBC iPlayer Radio app via AirPlay. (Or the TuneIn Radio Pro app for non-BBC stations.)

Not missed a beat in four and a half years.

 

[Covenanter]

I wasn't aware of this but if you look at the FAQ on the Marantz UK website it is confirmed. I know nothing about streaming but was thinking of getting a streamer and the NA8005 is the obvious choice to go with my other kit.

So what exactly does this mean in terms of listening to internet radio?

Chris

 

[Andy Clough]

This is a well known issue with many products (not just Marantz) which affected the likes of Sonos, Naim and others when the BBC changed the way it streams internet radio. We have reported on it extensively:

http://www.whathifi.com/news/listeners-complain-about-changes-to-bbc-internet-radio-streaming

Hardware manufacturers were caught out because the BBC made some unexpected changes at the last minute. Naim has now fixed the problem, but we are still waiting for Sonos and others to do so.

Frustrating, I know, but it looks like we'll have to be patient.

 

[Covenanter]

I have to say that having read everything I am still confused. Marantz clearly say on their website that this can't be fixed by a firmware update which implies that they will have to change the hardware in new models (and / or offer a retrospective hardware upgrade).

So a simple question - can I listen to BBC radio stations on a Marantz streamer?

Chris

 

[chebby]

I've never been impressed by the idea, or the reality, of built-in/proprietary internet radio. It's all bound up with that particular generation of hardware and firmware and means having to use the remote and crappy onboard LED displays. (And the available bitrates were often significantly lower than those available from the apps I mentioned above especially with vTuner.)

People have often complained (especially in the early days of the M-CR603) that their lovingly crafted internet station lists were destroyed whenever new software was loaded.

So easy to host the relevant apps on iPod Touch / iPhone / iPad instead and use AirPlay*. Infinitely better GUI experience and it has always worked.

* Or, now, Android and Bluetooth with the latest M-CR611 if you hate Apple

 

[SiUK]

Actually agree, Chebby. But this is a completely non Apple house here. Buying the new incarnations of the M-CR610 to fix the issue would be an expensive (and unreasonable) solution. And out of the question for me at least. Lot of money.

@Andy
I do also feel for others whose hardware has been made redundant or near redundant by this idiotic and unfair change in service, and I'm aware that it affects many others as well but learning that Marantz is basically saying 'we cant' fix it' is just, well, galling to say the least. Feel somewhat shafted! The consumer is passively bearing the brunt of a forced change yet again. The BBC seem to be able to do whatever they want whenever they want. It's pretty infuriating. I can't believe they didn't know what the consequences were going to be. So saying nothing and just doing seems to have been a calculated action. A***oles.

 

[MajorFubar]

@AndyI do also feel for others whose hardware has been made redundant or near redundant by this idiotic and unfair change in service,

Happens everywhere unfortunately and is one reason why modern devices become obsolete so quickly: obsolescence is purposefully designed in. Another case in point, my Panasonic smart TV, now 5 years old, has been getting progressively dumber for the last 18 months as the various apps it once boasted like iPlayer and YouTube pack in, with no updates available. The Wii is the same: five years old and none of the Wii channels work anymore. It's all deliberate because what they want you/me to do is go out and buy another. Meanwhile my Thorens TD160 turntable, which recently passed 40 years of age, still plays modern records, which someone somewhere is almost-certainly absolutely livid about.

 

[tino]

This is happening all too often with 'smart' devices that have embedded firmware/software for media or are reliant on external service providers. It's caused me to rethink my view on all-in one devices. I'll think in future I'll stick with my dumb amplifier and trusty Squeezebox (or any other small form factor PC) to provide the digital audio source. At least then I'll have a fighting chance to keep up to date with changes like these. Now if someone made an amplifier with the ability to plug and hide a Rasberry Pi inside the case .... that would be nice.

 

[MajorFubar]

Indeed. It's one of the main reasons I chose to add a Mac Mini to my HiFi and TV setup rather than buy a new system that could both stream my ripped media from my NAS and content from the internet (iPlayer, Spotify, YouTube, latterly Apple Music and so on). But it doesn't matter if your preferred weapon is a small-form-factor PC or a Mac Mini, either will work, and to me it seemed the best solution to keep my streaming solutions future proof. Oh and of course it still plays internet radio (obviously)

 

[Audio_ELF]

If you have a supported NAS or a PC somewhere on your network you can utilise the MinimServer software to support HLS streams.

Not as good as Marantz providing firmware update (which I believe they could if they chose to) but a working solution.

See http://minimstreamer.com/bbcradio.html

 

[Ghy]

If you have a supported NAS or a PC somewhere on your network you can utilise the MinimServer software to support HLS streams.

Audi_ELF, thanks for posting this work-around. Having given up on this issue earlier in the year I'm just revisiting it, and your solution looks very promising.
I might be being rather dense here - but while I can see how I could set up MinimServer (maybe on a Raspberry Pi), how would I access it from the Marantz?

 

[daveh75]

Now if someone made an amplifier with the ability to plug and hide a Rasberry Pi inside the case .... that would be nice.

http://www.iqaudio.co.uk/home/9-pi-digiamp-0712411999650.html

 

[andyjm]

@AndyI do also feel for others whose hardware has been made redundant or near redundant by this idiotic and unfair change in service,

Happens everywhere unfortunately and is one reason why modern devices become obsolete so quickly: obsolescence is purposefully designed in. Another case in point, my Panasonic smart TV, now 5 years old, has been getting progressively dumber for the last 18 months as the various apps it once boasted like iPlayer and YouTube pack in, with no updates available. The Wii is the same: five years old and none of the Wii channels work anymore. It's all deliberate because what they want you/me to do is go out and buy another. Meanwhile my Thorens TD160 turntable, which recently passed 40 years of age, still plays modern records, which someone somewhere is almost-certainly absolutely livid about.

I may be getting old, but it seems the speed that things pack up is increasing. I spend half my time trying to fix things that used to work, but have been upgraded by software 'improvements' to a non-working status. Curently I am trying to make Spotify work again on my Sonos system. It used to work, but apparently it has been enhanced to improve my listening experience.

 

[chebby]

I may be getting old, but it seems the speed that things pack up is increasing.

I think your spectacles are about to pack up too. They've developed an alarming rosy tint

Stuff has always packed up.

 

[The_Lhc]

I may be getting old, but it seems the speed that things pack up is increasing. I spend half my time trying to fix things that used to work, but have been upgraded by software 'improvements' to a non-working status. Curently I am trying to make Spotify work again on my Sonos system. It used to work, but apparently it has been enhanced to improve my listening experience.

I think you're getting your wires crossed, the Sonos spotify "upgrade" removed the ability to use playlist folders (Spotify don't support them in their Web API which Sonos were required to use in order to support Spotify Radio and the like). Everything else was working fine. Subsequent to that there was a global Spotify on Sonos outage on the 18th of November which was fixed within about 11 hours (Sonos have their own dedicated Spotify servers which broke after Spotify ran an update on them). If you're having problems now then it's entirely unrelated to any upgrade but is more likely to be a network issue, probably a duplicate IP address uncovered by the reboots that a Sonos update requires. That's easily fixed.

Incidentally Sonos have now issued the update which provides support for the BBCs HLS streams. Contrast that to Denon's response which was "this doesn't work and we're never going to fix it".

 

[andyjm]

I may be getting old, but it seems the speed that things pack up is increasing. I spend half my time trying to fix things that used to work, but have been upgraded by software 'improvements' to a non-working status. Curently I am trying to make Spotify work again on my Sonos system. It used to work, but apparently it has been enhanced to improve my listening experience.

I think you're getting your wires crossed, the Sonos spotify "upgrade" removed the ability to use playlist folders (Spotify don't support them in their Web API which Sonos were required to use in order to support Spotify Radio and the like). Everything else was working fine. Subsequent to that there was a global Spotify on Sonos outage on the 18th of November which was fixed within about 11 hours (Sonos have their own dedicated Spotify servers which broke after Spotify ran an update on them). If you're having problems now then it's entirely unrelated to any upgrade but is more likely to be a network issue, probably a duplicate IP address uncovered by the reboots that a Sonos update requires. That's easily fixed.

While you may be right, I would however note that on the Sonos website is "Please note, due to a new Spotify implementation on Sonos, you must update your system to 5.5 or higher by November 16th 2015 in order for your account to contiune working on Sonos"

I didn't, and found out when my Wife started to complain that Spotify was broken. I am now caught in a 'you need to reauthorise your account...completed...you need to reauthorise your account' loop. Googling would suggest I am not the only one.

Even if this proves to be Spotify's problem, Sonos do have some form here. I am sure you remember the Sonos upgrade that made all early iOS devices unusable. Those of us who were using old iPhones and iPods as controllers (which was one of the attractions of Sonos) were left out in the cold. There are pages of disgruntled Sonos users who posted their displeasure about that.

 

[The_Lhc]

I may be getting old, but it seems the speed that things pack up is increasing.  I spend half my time trying to fix things that used to work, but have been upgraded by software 'improvements' to a non-working status.  Curently I am trying to make Spotify work again on my Sonos system.  It used to work, but apparently it has been enhanced to improve my listening experience.

I think you're getting your wires crossed, the Sonos spotify "upgrade" removed the ability to use playlist folders (Spotify don't support them in their Web API which Sonos were required to use in order to support Spotify Radio and the like). Everything else was working fine. Subsequent to that there was a global Spotify on Sonos outage on the 18th of November which was fixed within about 11 hours (Sonos have their own dedicated Spotify servers which broke after Spotify ran an update on them). If you're having problems now then it's entirely unrelated to any upgrade but is more likely to be a network issue, probably a duplicate IP address uncovered by the reboots that a Sonos update requires. That's easily fixed.

While you may be right, I would however note that on the Sonos website is "Please note, due to a new Spotify implementation on Sonos, you must update your system to 5.5 or higher by November 16th 2015 in order for your account to contiune working on Sonos"

I didn't, and found out when my Wife started to complain that Spotify was broken. I am now caught in a 'you need to reauthorise your account...completed...you need to reauthorise your account' loop.  Googling would suggest I am not the only one.

Have you spoken to support about it? There are also many thousands of people NOT having that trouble, so it's not a universal issue.

Even if this proves to be Spotify's problem, Sonos do have some form here.  I am sure you remember the Sonos upgrade that made all early iOS devices unusable.  Those of us who were using old iPhones and iPods as controllers (which was one of the attractions of Sonos) were left out in the cold.  There are pages of disgruntled Sonos users who posted their displeasure about that. 

Yes I remember, I also know who to blame, Apple. Sonos are adding new features all the time but in order to do so they need the operating system to allow support for those features, it's Apple that doesn't provide that support. Look at android, Sonos still support android 2.2, despite the fact 6.0 is now available. Why? Because the OS allows them to do everything they need to.

Don't blame Sonos for Apple's shortcomings.

 

[andyjm]

Yes I remember, I also know who to blame, Apple. Sonos are adding new features all the time but in order to do so they need the operating system to allow support for those features, it's Apple that doesn't provide that support. Look at android, Sonos still support android 2.2, despite the fact 6.0 is now available. Why? Because the OS allows them to do everything they need to.

Don't blame Sonos for Apple's shortcomings.

Hmmn. I am no great supporter of Apple, but even squinting through a pair of Sonos fanboy glasses, I would struggle to blame Apple for failing to predict Sonos' future software development plans.

Apple have undeniably stopped supporting early iOS devices - they won't run the current version of iOS, but they do still work, albeit without all the features of the current crop of products.

I wouldn't have thought it beyond the wit of Sonos to have adopted a similar approach - no new features on old iOS devices, but at least make the system backwards compatible so the existing supported hardware would continue to work. The Sonos software update that rendered the early iOS devices useless was non-reversible, so there was no going back.

Hardly Apple's fault.

In a similar vein to my current Spotify issue (and the OP's problem) a change by a vendor has rendered an operative device inoperative - with no intervention by the owner. It used to work, I haven't changed anything, and now it doesn't. Damned annoying.