Bass. How low do you wanna go?

[bigfish786]

There seems to be quite a lot of people that like their bass very prominent in their system, whether they are adding subs, or wanting speakers with more bass, or trying to get more bass from their own setup.

What I seem to have gained over the last few years, and through several upgrades is, that bass sounds much much better when you can hear it, tight, pronounced, and clean.

Not overblown, shaking the foundations, and pi$$ing your neighbours off.

When I upgraded my speakers from mission m35i to focals, this was the first thing I noticed. As good as the missions are, they are a little uncontrolled in comparison.

 

[Frank Harvey]

At the budget end of the market, getting tight, controlled bass - and plenty of it - is nigh on impossible. Until budget allows, a compromise on depth is usually the best choice. I'd take detail and texture over bass depth any day.

 

[Andrewjvt]

At the budget end of the market, getting tight, controlled bass - and plenty of it - is nigh on impossible. Until budget allows, a compromise on depth is usually the best choice. I'd take detail and texture over bass depth any day.

I say: +1

 

[iQ Speakers]

Bass is good if its controlled and tight, stops and starts when it should, it adds, creates the timing and kind of hangs everthing together. Some combos just blast it out, It should be there but not the thing you notice. You should be just enjoying the music as a whole. Ill matched oversized speakers for the room will give overblown bass, as an amp that wont control it.

 

[lindsayt]

Bigfish, yes.

And bass sounds best of all when it's tight, clean, dynamic goes down to 20 hz and is within +/- 2 dbs (maybe 3 dbs) of the midrange and treble.

In other words, when it's a pretty good recreation of the instruments / sound effects on the recording.

Such bass will put a fair amount of energy into the structure of your house, but then someone playing a double bass or bass drum in your listening room would do the same thing.

 

[matt49]

Such bass will put a fair amount of energy into the structure of your house, but then someone playing a double bass or bass drum in your listening room would do the same thing.

Exactly, and that's the problem. In most domestic spaces a double bass or bass drum will sound unpleasantly overpowering. Which is why people go for speakers that do mids and treble well but drop off a cliff at about 30-40Hz.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Exactly, and that's the problem. In most domestic spaces a double bass or bass drum will sound unpleasantly overpowering. Which is why people go for speakers that do mids and treble well but drop off a cliff at about 30-40Hz.

Yes totaly agree with that. You want good quality bass thats there when you need but not taking over

 

[lindsayt]

In a genuinely good system (that goes down to 20hz) the volume at which a double bass or bass drum sounds unpleasantly overpowering is likely to be around about or past the volume at which the brass section or guitars or cymbals sound overpowering. Of course this will all depend upon the instrumentation in the recording and how it was mixed.

Just the same as at most live concerts, where it's the brass section or the guitars or cymbals that cut into your ears the most.

The onset of unpleasantly overpowering bass at lower volumes on a variety of recordings is an indication that the bass quality isn't as good as it should be.

 

[CnoEvil]

Such bass will put a fair amount of energy into the structure of your house, but then someone playing a double bass or bass drum in your listening room would do the same thing.

Exactly, and that's the problem. In most domestic spaces a double bass or bass drum will sound unpleasantly overpowering. Which is why people go for speakers that do mids and treble well but drop off a cliff at about 30-40Hz.

I would say that speakers that comfortably go below 30 Hz are so expensive (new), that few can afford them.

 

[The_Lhc]

Such bass will put a fair amount of energy into the structure of your house, but then someone playing a double bass or bass drum in your listening room would do the same thing.

Exactly, and that's the problem. In most domestic spaces a double bass or bass drum will sound unpleasantly overpowering. Which is why people go for speakers that do mids and treble well but drop off a cliff at about 30-40Hz.

I would say that speakers that comfortably go below 30 Hz are so expensive (new), that few can afford them.

They're also largely pointless, the kick drum mentioned typically bottoms out at 50hz, about the only instruments that reach 30Hz are bass guitar, contrabassoon, the very lowest keys on a piano and of course a full pipe organ, which is the only one that can reach to 20Hz. If you're listening to contemporary music, pop, rock, jazz etc you're unlikely to ever need anything that low. Not rolling off before 40Hz would be good but 20 or even 30 is largely a waste of time.

 

[Al ears]

Such bass will put a fair amount of energy into the structure of your house, but then someone playing a double bass or bass drum in your listening room would do the same thing.

Exactly, and that's the problem. In most domestic spaces a double bass or bass drum will sound unpleasantly overpowering. Which is why people go for speakers that do mids and treble well but drop off a cliff at about 30-40Hz.

I would say that speakers that comfortably go below 30 Hz are so expensive (new), that few can afford them.

They're also largely pointless, the kick drum mentioned typically bottoms out at 50hz, about the only instruments that reach 30Hz are bass guitar, contrabassoon, the very lowest keys on a piano and of course a full pipe organ, which is the only one that can reach to 20Hz. If you're listening to contemporary music, pop, rock, jazz etc you're unlikely to ever need anything that low. Not rolling off before 40Hz would be good but 20 or even 30 is largely a waste of time.

+1

As long as your system can sound good playing a Kodo Drummers of Japan SACD then who would want to go any deeper?

Unless, of course, you happen to be an church organ officiado.

 

[The_Lhc]

Such bass will put a fair amount of energy into the structure of your house, but then someone playing a double bass or bass drum in your listening room would do the same thing.

Exactly, and that's the problem. In most domestic spaces a double bass or bass drum will sound unpleasantly overpowering. Which is why people go for speakers that do mids and treble well but drop off a cliff at about 30-40Hz.

I would say that speakers that comfortably go below 30 Hz are so expensive (new), that few can afford them.

They're also largely pointless, the kick drum mentioned typically bottoms out at 50hz, about the only instruments that reach 30Hz are bass guitar, contrabassoon, the very lowest keys on a piano and of course a full pipe organ, which is the only one that can reach to 20Hz. If you're listening to contemporary music, pop, rock, jazz etc you're unlikely to ever need anything that low. Not rolling off before 40Hz would be good but 20 or even 30 is largely a waste of time.

+1

As long as your system can sound good playing a Kodo Drummers of Japan SACD then who would want to go any deeper?

Unless, of course, you happen to be an church organ officiado.

But if you are a church organ fan then all you really need is standmount speakers on wooden stands, coupled directly to a suspended wooden floor over a basement (or bassment, if you will, chortle) as I found out a couple of Christmasses ago. #PAAAAAAARP

 

[plastic penguin]

Looking at the spec sheet of my TB2is it states 40-20 KHz. As I'm not a specciewink it means nada to me.

However, I do believe there's a difference between bass depth and definition. In comparison to my old RS6 (38-30KHz) the TB2i has more of pronounced definition: The dispersion of the LFs is far more 3D and balanced, whereas the RS6s could become overpowering if cranked up.

 

[matt49]

In a genuinely good system (that goes down to 20hz) the volume at which a double bass or bass drum sounds unpleasantly overpowering is likely to be around about or past the volume at which the brass section or guitars or cymbals sound overpowering. Of course this will all depend upon the instrumentation in the recording and how it was mixed.

Just the same as at most live concerts, where it's the brass section or the guitars or cymbals that cut into your ears the most.

The onset of unpleasantly overpowering bass at lower volumes on a variety of recordings is an indication that the bass quality isn't as good as it should be.

Indeed, and the cause of poor bass quality is most often the interaction of the speakers with the room. Hence the phrase in my post above "in most domestic spaces".

 

[Al ears]

Such bass will put a fair amount of energy into the structure of your house, but then someone playing a double bass or bass drum in your listening room would do the same thing.

Exactly, and that's the problem. In most domestic spaces a double bass or bass drum will sound unpleasantly overpowering. Which is why people go for speakers that do mids and treble well but drop off a cliff at about 30-40Hz.

I would say that speakers that comfortably go below 30 Hz are so expensive (new), that few can afford them.

They're also largely pointless, the kick drum mentioned typically bottoms out at 50hz, about the only instruments that reach 30Hz are bass guitar, contrabassoon, the very lowest keys on a piano and of course a full pipe organ, which is the only one that can reach to 20Hz. If you're listening to contemporary music, pop, rock, jazz etc you're unlikely to ever need anything that low. Not rolling off before 40Hz would be good but 20 or even 30 is largely a waste of time.

+1

As long as your system can sound good playing a Kodo Drummers of Japan SACD then who would want to go any deeper?

Unless, of course, you happen to be an church organ officiado.

But if you are a church organ fan then all you really need is standmount speakers on wooden stands, coupled directly to a suspended wooden floor over a basement (or bassment, if you will, chortle) as I found out a couple of Christmasses ago. #PAAAAAAARP

Is this to suitably re-create the sound of church organ placed over a suitably boomy crypt?

 

[lindsayt]

The acoustics of most domestic spaces are largely under the control of the owner of that space.

The room is a significant part of any audio system.

I've never had major bass issues in any of the rooms I've installed my hi-fi systems, apart from when exhibiting at Scalford.

It's not just modern full frequency speakers that are expensive. Throughout history, speakers that go down to 20 hz with a reasonable amount of fidelity have been expensive to hugely expensive - when bought new. But there's nothing to say we can't go 2nd hand or DIY or create some Frankenstein speakers.

I like listening to music like Suzanne Vega. Here's a frequency analysis of Solitude Standing, where there's more content at 20hz than at any frequency above 1 khz:

 

[The_Lhc]

Such bass will put a fair amount of energy into the structure of your house, but then someone playing a double bass or bass drum in your listening room would do the same thing.

Exactly, and that's the problem. In most domestic spaces a double bass or bass drum will sound unpleasantly overpowering. Which is why people go for speakers that do mids and treble well but drop off a cliff at about 30-40Hz.

I would say that speakers that comfortably go below 30 Hz are so expensive (new), that few can afford them.

They're also largely pointless, the kick drum mentioned typically bottoms out at 50hz, about the only instruments that reach 30Hz are bass guitar, contrabassoon, the very lowest keys on a piano and of course a full pipe organ, which is the only one that can reach to 20Hz. If you're listening to contemporary music, pop, rock, jazz etc you're unlikely to ever need anything that low. Not rolling off before 40Hz would be good but 20 or even 30 is largely a waste of time.

+1

As long as your system can sound good playing a Kodo Drummers of Japan SACD then who would want to go any deeper?

Unless, of course, you happen to be an church organ officiado.

But if you are a church organ fan then all you really need is standmount speakers on wooden stands, coupled directly to a suspended wooden floor over a basement (or bassment, if you will, chortle) as I found out a couple of Christmasses ago. #PAAAAAAARP

Is this to suitably re-create the sound of church organ placed over a suitably boomy crypt?

Dunno but it could have woken the dead!

 

[bluebrazil]

as said above the only instruments producing those frequencies are only heard in concert halls or churches, if you have a large room with high ceilings then you can go for it via a big ass sub or some 15 inch monster drivers.

maybe even then you need a solidy constructed room, ie old stone built or double bricked pre cavity walled home.

lots get it wrong by using badly set subs set up for movies and it kills the rest of the music where the emotion lies. each to their own but i will say something if its a friend with an adjoining wall as lower is devinitively not better than controled

 

[bigfish786]

Is not something I have any interest in. I believe that I have a good enough setup to give me the best sound I can get.

I just dont understand why some people want overblown bass, as though that is the better balanced sound. adding subs etc seems counter productive to me.

 

[SteveR750]

Bigfish, yes.

And bass sounds best of all when it's tight, clean, dynamic goes down to 20 hz and is within +/- 2 dbs (maybe 3 dbs) of the midrange and treble.

In other words, when it's a pretty good recreation of the instruments / sound effects on the recording.

Such bass will put a fair amount of energy into the structure of your house, but then someone playing a double bass or bass drum in your listening room would do the same thing.

And that is exactly that for me anyway. I want my system to be able to replicate* what I hear in my house when the drum kit / guitar is played

*as in recorded in my house.

That is for me what this **investment** is all about!

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Bass...

Modern speakers and bass are like seat belts.....now it's the norm to wear them, there is even a sense of fear when you don't.....it's almost exciting.

Has a child I remember when Bass was big and thumping, hearing my uncles system, home made boxes - 15inch paper coned woofers playing at 'normal' listening levels modern speakers do not compare. These things radiated a room filling bass that rattled Windows....Bullitt tweeters chipping away up top.

(could be rose tinted perspective)

Modern speakers are 'different', bass is different today....safe.

 

[MattSPL]

Such bass will put a fair amount of energy into the structure of your house, but then someone playing a double bass or bass drum in your listening room would do the same thing.

Exactly, and that's the problem. In most domestic spaces a double bass or bass drum will sound unpleasantly overpowering. Which is why people go for speakers that do mids and treble well but drop off a cliff at about 30-40Hz.

I would say that speakers that comfortably go below 30 Hz are so expensive (new), that few can afford them.

They're also largely pointless, the kick drum mentioned typically bottoms out at 50hz, about the only instruments that reach 30Hz are bass guitar, contrabassoon, the very lowest keys on a piano and of course a full pipe organ, which is the only one that can reach to 20Hz. If you're listening to contemporary music, pop, rock, jazz etc you're unlikely to ever need anything that low. Not rolling off before 40Hz would be good but 20 or even 30 is largely a waste of time.

you have to also consider the fundamentals of notes, acoustic space where the music was recorded and also modern electronic music. All of these factors need bass well below 30/40hz

my speakers will play down to 30hz no problem and my sub reaches 15hz or lower. If I remove the sub, it is missed.

 

[matt49]

The acoustics of most domestic spaces are largely under the control of the owner of that space.

The room is a significant part of any audio system.

Exactly. However, perfect rooms are pretty rare, especially in the UK with its large stock of poorly built and small houses.

I'm lucky enough to live in a relatively large house in London; even so, the living room "only" measures 5.15 x 5.25m, and no matter where I put the speakers (and of course options are limited) there are bass problems. The peaks can be sorted out with digital EQ; the nulls will require a sub.

 

[SteveR750]

I am in the process of sorting out my nulls! KaBOOM!

I'm auditioning a JL E-110, crossover set to 40Hz, Vol just over 0 (mid) but phase I'm struggling with. It's not easy to find the ideal setting aurally, or at least I haven't managed it after a quikc 30 minutes fiddling earlier.

Now watching Rocknrolla on BDP. Really enhances the AV experience, massive improvement.

 

[pyrrhon]

Electro music goes at any frequency! And of course the room vs bass port tuning.