Bass. How low do you wanna go?

[SteveR750]

Here's something I also noticed, playing tracks via Spotify and they are missing the bottom octaves, the sub is adding very little. Same track from FLAC and the floor is literally shaking. It's not a volume issue either, as j river is set to volume levelling which makes it quieter than Spotify. It's all too easy to overdo the sub volume. OK for films, but it can totally obliterate the pitch, and over excites my room which clearly has some resonance issues around 60hz. As for needing one, a 4 string bass tuned conventionally will be tuned to 42hz on the bottom E string, a 5 string bass is 31hz, and a 5 stringer in drop D is a whole step below so will be less than 30hz. So, ideally a flat response to 25hz is the minimum requirement for guitar music. I'm also pretty sure that many drummers set up their kick drums so the Fr is well below 50hz.

 

[steve_1979]

Here's something I also noticed, playing tracks via Spotify and they are missing the bottom octaves, the sub is adding very little. Same track from FLAC and the floor is literally shaking. It's not a volume issue either, as j river is set to volume levelling which makes it quieter than Spotify. It's all too easy to overdo the sub volume. OK for films, but it can totally obliterate the pitch, and over excites my room which clearly has some resonance issues around 60hz. As for needing one, a 4 string bass tuned conventionally will be tuned to 42hz on the bottom E string, a 5 string bass is 31hz, and a 5 stringer in drop D is a whole step below so will be less than 30hz. So, ideally a flat response to 25hz is the minimum requirement for guitar music. I'm also pretty sure that many drummers set up their kick drums so the Fr is well below 50hz.

Using Audacity I analysed an Infected Mushroom song played from Spotify a couple of years a go and there was plenty of output between 20-30Hz.

That was the 320kbps stream though but I didn't look at the 160kbps stream.

 

[SteveR750]

Here's something I also noticed, playing tracks via Spotify and they are missing the bottom octaves, the sub is adding very little. Same track from FLAC and the floor is literally shaking. It's not a volume issue either, as j river is set to volume levelling which makes it quieter than Spotify. It's all too easy to overdo the sub volume. OK for films, but it can totally obliterate the pitch, and over excites my room which clearly has some resonance issues around 60hz. As for needing one, a 4 string bass tuned conventionally will be tuned to 42hz on the bottom E string, a 5 string bass is 31hz, and a 5 stringer in drop D is a whole step below so will be less than 30hz. So, ideally a flat response to 25hz is the minimum requirement for guitar music. I'm also pretty sure that many drummers set up their kick drums so the Fr is well below 50hz.

Using Audacity I analysed an Infected Mushroom song played from Spotify a couple of years a go and there was plenty of output between 20-30Hz.

That was the 320kbps stream though but I didn't look at the 160kbps stream.

This is all 320KBs extreme quality. is there any content above 50Hz from Infected Mushroom???

It could be my PC of course that's the cause, as it's playing Spotify through the kernel mixer and therefore presumably being resampled and whatever else windows does to the audio signal...

 

[steve_1979]

Here's something I also noticed, playing tracks via Spotify and they are missing the bottom octaves, the sub is adding very little. Same track from FLAC and the floor is literally shaking. It's not a volume issue either, as j river is set to volume levelling which makes it quieter than Spotify. It's all too easy to overdo the sub volume. OK for films, but it can totally obliterate the pitch, and over excites my room which clearly has some resonance issues around 60hz. As for needing one, a 4 string bass tuned conventionally will be tuned to 42hz on the bottom E string, a 5 string bass is 31hz, and a 5 stringer in drop D is a whole step below so will be less than 30hz. So, ideally a flat response to 25hz is the minimum requirement for guitar music. I'm also pretty sure that many drummers set up their kick drums so the Fr is well below 50hz.

Using Audacity I analysed an Infected Mushroom song played from Spotify a couple of years a go and there was plenty of output between 20-30Hz.

That was the 320kbps stream though but I didn't look at the 160kbps stream.

This is all 320KBs extreme quality. is there any content above 50Hz from Infected Mushroom???

It could be my PC of course that's the cause, as it's playing Spotify through the kernel mixer and therefore presumably being resampled and whatever else windows does to the audio signal...

Is there any content above 50Hz?

I'm not sure what you mean by this (or if it's just a joke - sometimes it can be hard to tell when communicating by text) but yes of course there's content above 50Hz.

The difference is the bass you're experiencing could be due to Spotify having a differently mastered version to the one you have on FLAC.

 

[steve_1979]

Here's something I also noticed, playing tracks via Spotify and they are missing the bottom octaves, the sub is adding very little. Same track from FLAC and the floor is literally shaking. It's not a volume issue either, as j river is set to volume levelling which makes it quieter than Spotify. It's all too easy to overdo the sub volume. OK for films, but it can totally obliterate the pitch, and over excites my room which clearly has some resonance issues around 60hz. As for needing one, a 4 string bass tuned conventionally will be tuned to 42hz on the bottom E string, a 5 string bass is 31hz, and a 5 stringer in drop D is a whole step below so will be less than 30hz. So, ideally a flat response to 25hz is the minimum requirement for guitar music. I'm also pretty sure that many drummers set up their kick drums so the Fr is well below 50hz.

Using Audacity I analysed an Infected Mushroom song played from Spotify a couple of years a go and there was plenty of output between 20-30Hz.

That was the 320kbps stream though but I didn't look at the 160kbps stream.

This is all 320KBs extreme quality. is there any content above 50Hz from Infected Mushroom???

It could be my PC of course that's the cause, as it's playing Spotify through the kernel mixer and therefore presumably being resampled and whatever else windows does to the audio signal...

Is there any content above 50Hz?

I'm not sure what you mean by this (or if it's just a joke - sometimes it can be hard to tell when communicating by text) but yes of course there's content above 50Hz.

The difference is the bass you're experiencing could be due to Spotify having a differently mastered version to the one you have on FLAC.

Sorry Steve for being ambiguous, yes it was a joke!

I thought it was but without having tone of voice and body language messages on furums often seem to have a totally different meaning to what the reader intended. I've been caught out many times by that.

If I get a spare ten minutes at the weekend I'll compare a couple of Spotify tracks to CD rips that I have and post some comparative pictures. I only have 160kbps Spotify Free at the moment though because I'm saving every penny for some DM10's. From my (unreliable) memory I think that Spotify's 160kbps stream cuts off some of the high frequencies above about 16kHz but I don't think it affects the frequency range at the bass end.

 

[SteveR750]

Here's something I also noticed, playing tracks via Spotify and they are missing the bottom octaves, the sub is adding very little. Same track from FLAC and the floor is literally shaking. It's not a volume issue either, as j river is set to volume levelling which makes it quieter than Spotify. It's all too easy to overdo the sub volume. OK for films, but it can totally obliterate the pitch, and over excites my room which clearly has some resonance issues around 60hz. As for needing one, a 4 string bass tuned conventionally will be tuned to 42hz on the bottom E string, a 5 string bass is 31hz, and a 5 stringer in drop D is a whole step below so will be less than 30hz. So, ideally a flat response to 25hz is the minimum requirement for guitar music. I'm also pretty sure that many drummers set up their kick drums so the Fr is well below 50hz.

Using Audacity I analysed an Infected Mushroom song played from Spotify a couple of years a go and there was plenty of output between 20-30Hz.

That was the 320kbps stream though but I didn't look at the 160kbps stream.

This is all 320KBs extreme quality. is there any content above 50Hz from Infected Mushroom???

It could be my PC of course that's the cause, as it's playing Spotify through the kernel mixer and therefore presumably being resampled and whatever else windows does to the audio signal...

Is there any content above 50Hz?

I'm not sure what you mean by this (or if it's just a joke - sometimes it can be hard to tell when communicating by text) but yes of course there's content above 50Hz.

The difference is the bass you're experiencing could be due to Spotify having a differently mastered version to the one you have on FLAC.

Sorry Steve for being ambiguous, yes it was a joke! I've listened to infected mushroom a fair bit, and one of my sons is into that kind of music, and it's fair to say there is a lot of LF content. Thought about the mastered versions, Spotify usually includes "remastered" in the album or track titles if indeed they have been. It was only a cursory observation last night, but more to come. I've just compared Breathe from DSOM and there is no lack in bass.

However, I'm not absolutely convinced a sub and a large bouncy suspended floor works well. The amount of energy it pumps into the room is staggering, literally half the furniture is rattling. The problem is that the floor is obviously being excited to such a degree it's colouring the sound massively, so the heart beats are no longer a crisp "whump whump" they've become an overblown blob of vibration of indeterminate pitch. It's clear that trying to set one up without some kind of room measurement and EQ is like playing international hide and seek. The more I listen to it, the lower the volume setting is, so that it's gently enhancing the sound rather than thwacking you in the chest.

 

[MattSPL]

I am in the process of sorting out my nulls! KaBOOM!

I'm auditioning a JL E-110, crossover set to 40Hz, Vol just over 0 (mid) but phase I'm struggling with. It's not easy to find the ideal setting aurally, or at least I haven't managed it after a quikc 30 minutes fiddling earlier.

Now watching Rocknrolla on BDP. Really enhances the AV experience, massive improvement.

Hi Steve

When setting the sub phase, it's best to use a test tone of the crossover frequency(40hz in your case) and listen for when the tone is loudest at the listening position while somebody adjusts phase for you.

Also, don't be afraid to try a lower crossover frequency if your sub allows and up the sub volume slightly. This can help give adequate volume to bass in the 15-25hz region while not allowing the 30-50hz bass to overpower.

 

[SteveR750]

I am in the process of sorting out my nulls! KaBOOM!

I'm auditioning a JL E-110, crossover set to 40Hz, Vol just over 0 (mid) but phase I'm struggling with. It's not easy to find the ideal setting aurally, or at least I haven't managed it after a quikc 30 minutes fiddling earlier.

Now watching Rocknrolla on BDP. Really enhances the AV experience, massive improvement.

Hi Steve

When setting the sub phase, it's best to use a test tone of the crossover frequency(40hz in your case) and listen for when the tone is loudest at the listening position while somebody adjusts phase for you.

Also, don't be afraid to try a lower crossover frequency if your sub allows and up the sub volume slightly. This can help give adequate volume to bass in the 15-25hz region while not allowing the 30-50hz bass to overpower.

I did just that Matt. I've set the X-over to around 30Hz, otherwise it obliterates the pitch, and tunred up the volume to add some feel to lowest registers. I'm still not convinced the system is better though, but that could well be my floor.

 

[steve_1979]

Here's something I also noticed, playing tracks via Spotify and they are missing the bottom octaves, the sub is adding very little.

Here's a frequency plot for the track 'Drum n Bassa' played from Spotify Premium at 320kbps (it's payday today so I've just subscribed again ).

Infected Mushroom are well known for having deep bass that goes down below 20Hz at times.

 

[SteveR750]

Steve, I'm listeining to Amber Run's 5am. First track for sure has some 30 Hz ish notes in it, and they're pretty clear. It was probably my poor initial sub set up which messed my listening position up. A classic case of changing too many variables at the same time.

 

[steve_1979]

Steve, I'm listeining to Amber Run's 5am. First track for sure has some 30 Hz ish notes in it, and they're pretty clear. It was probably my poor initial sub set up which messed my listening position up. A classic case of changing too many variables at the same time.

Easily done with moving a sub or changing the phase. I did it myself too when first setting mine up.

 

[MattSPL]

I am in the process of sorting out my nulls! KaBOOM!

I'm auditioning a JL E-110, crossover set to 40Hz, Vol just over 0 (mid) but phase I'm struggling with. It's not easy to find the ideal setting aurally, or at least I haven't managed it after a quikc 30 minutes fiddling earlier.

Now watching Rocknrolla on BDP. Really enhances the AV experience, massive improvement.

Hi Steve

When setting the sub phase, it's best to use a test tone of the crossover frequency(40hz in your case) and listen for when the tone is loudest at the listening position while somebody adjusts phase for you.

Also, don't be afraid to try a lower crossover frequency if your sub allows and up the sub volume slightly. This can help give adequate volume to bass in the 15-25hz region while not allowing the 30-50hz bass to overpower.

I did just that Matt. I've set the X-over to around 30Hz, otherwise it obliterates the pitch, and tunred up the volume to add some feel to lowest registers. I'm still not convinced the system is better though, but that could well be my floor.

make a trip to the local garden centre tomorrow and buy a concrete paving slab and place it under the sub.

i use them under my speaker stands and sub.

 

[SteveR750]

I need to do the crawl test, but I'd need 20ft phono cables. I'm resigned to having to move amp plus laptop across to the other side of the room to do it, only to discover the sweet spots are probably impossible.