Balanced XLR cables advice please

[prkprk1]

Hi all,

I've just upgraded my Rega Apollo R CD player and Brio R amp to an Abrahamsen V1.0 UP (CD) and V2.0 UP (Amp) combo.

My Rega CD was fed to a Rega DAC via an AudioQuest VCM-3 co-ax didgital interconnect and then into the Brio with an Audioquest Sydney RCA interconnect. The Abrahamsen kit has the option to use balanced XLR inputs from the CD player to the AMP.

I’ve no experience of using XLR cables, so was wondering if I would be better off using the XLR connection from CD to Amp or "standard RCA" cables (I can use my AQ Sydney cable)? If so, Any suggestions for XLRs?

I’m not sure if there will be a benefit of using my DAC between the new CD player and Amp (Not using XLR connections) as I haven’t had a chance to set everything up yet but that’s also an option.

Last piece of info, I’m driving some B&W PM1s.

 

[Al ears]

0cm;line-height:24.5pt">Hi all,

I've just upgraded my Rega Apollo R CD player and Brio R amp to an Abrahamsen V1.0 UP (CD) and V2.0 UP (Amp) combo.

My Rega CD was fed to a Rega DAC via an AudioQuest VCM-3 co-ax didgital interconnect and then into the Brio with an Audioquest Sydney RCA interconnect. The Abrahamsen kit has the option to use balanced XLR inputs from the CD player to the AMP.

I’ve no experience of using XLR cables, so was wondering if I would be better off using the XLR connection from CD to Amp or "standard RCA" cables (I can use my AQ Sydney cable)? If so, Any suggestions for XLRs?

I’m not sure if there will be a benefit of using my DAC between the new CD player and Amp (Not using XLR connections) as I haven’t had a chance to set everything up yet but that’s also an option.

0cm;line-height:24.5pt">Last piece of info, I’m driving some B&W PM1s.

Unless your CD player and amp are a long way apart I'd forget about running XLR's. You probably will not hear any difference and your bank balance will be down a bit. Another pair of 'standard RCA' cables should suffice.

 

[andyjm]

Unless your CD player and amp are a long way apart I'd forget about running XLR's. You probably will not hear any difference and your bank balance will be down a bit. Another pair of 'standard RCA' cables should suffice.

Good advice. As a rule, there is more 'gubbins' in the way of the signal using balanced connections. If you are a believer in HiFi that less is more, (absent an interference problem) single ended RCA would probably be better.

That is not to say your amp designer hasn't made a pig's ear out of the RCA inputs and a great job of the XLR, so in your case XLR could be better - but as a general rule RCA is better for short runs.

 

[Macspur]

If the Abrahamson gear is anything like Electrocompaniet, which I believe it is, XLR will make a big difference to SQ... I use them between my EMC1UP and E350 and would never go back to RCA.

See if you can borrow some from a dealer to compare with RCA.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[CnoEvil]

If the Abrahamson gear is anything like Electrocompaniet, which I believe it is, XLR will make a big difference to SQ... I use them between my EMC1UP and E350 and would never go back to RCA.

It has also been my experience that Electro gear sounds better with XLR.

 

[iceman16]

Same experience with my Electro cdp. It sound better with xlr to my amp.

 

[Electro]

I agree *smile* .

Electrocompaniet and Abrahamsen equipment is fully balanced from input to output and are designed to be connected using balanced XLR cables and they do sound better connected that way, but they still sound very good using RCA connections .

Balanced XLR interconnects are usually cheaper than RCA interconnects so there is no excuse not to use them , another bonus is that all well made balanced cables sound exactly the same *bomb* *smile*

So yes use the balanced connections if you can .

These are the XLR cables I use .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151186847778?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&var=450235128792&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

[Al ears]

I agree *smile* .

Electrocompaniet and Abrahamsen equipment is fully balanced from input to output and are designed to be connected using balanced XLR cables and they do sound better connected that way, but they still sound very good using RCA connections .

Balanced XLR interconnects are usually cheaper than RCA interconnects so there is no excuse not to use them , another bonus is that all well made balanced cables sound exactly the same *bomb* *smile*

So yes use the balanced connections if you can .

These are the XLR cables I use .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151186847778?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&var=450235128792&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

If the CD player is fully balanced then you may have a point regards XLR interconnects.

 

[Electro]

I agree *smile* .

Electrocompaniet and Abrahamsen equipment is fully balanced from input to output and are designed to be connected using balanced XLR cables and they do sound better connected that way, but they still sound very good using RCA connections .

Balanced XLR interconnects are usually cheaper than RCA interconnects so there is no excuse not to use them , another bonus is that all well made balanced cables sound exactly the same *bomb* *smile*

So yes use the balanced connections if you can .

These are the XLR cables I use .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151186847778?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&var=450235128792&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

If the CD player is fully balanced then you may have a point regards XLR interconnects.

The OP's Abrahamsen V1.0 UP Cd player is fully balanced so I agree .*smile*

 

[prkprk1]

Thanks all for the advice. I'll see if I can borrow some from my local dealer.

I got my first chance to have a proper listen today. And with the setup described above it really sounds fantastic and so pleased with the abrahamsen kit.

Even in the two hours I've had since opening the boxes yesterday, the amp has really started to open up.

The cd player is more open and crisper than my rega apollo r which was connected to a rega dac, so only good things to say.

 

[prkprk1]

Just had a look on ebay and those cables are 13 quid for a metre??!!! Got to be worth a punt and sell my £100 audio quest RCA. Profits can go to some new speaker wires. Bonus!

 

[bluebrazil]

i might be being daft here but have you decided to keep using the rega dac, if you still have it, or the v1 straight into your new amp. this comparison will make any cable issues insignificant.

 

[bluebrazil]

try the rega dac first before worrying about xlr's, if your preference is to use the cd players dac then buy some xlr's from a pro audio shop or website.

i for one would be interested to hear your views on the dac comparisons more than any balanced via unbalanced differences. thats not to say there will not be any if the two components are well implemented to using a balanced connection, though i feel that its irrelevant till you decide which of the 2 dacs you prefer.

 

[Coll]

I agree *smile* .

Electrocompaniet and Abrahamsen equipment is fully balanced from input to output and are designed to be connected using balanced XLR cables and they do sound better connected that way, but they still sound very good using RCA connections .

Balanced XLR interconnects are usually cheaper than RCA interconnects so there is no excuse not to use them , another bonus is that all well made balanced cables sound exactly the same *bomb* *smile*

So yes use the balanced connections if you can .

These are the XLR cables I use .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151186847778?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&var=450235128792&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I use those cables also they are great value why pay more

 

[prkprk1]

OK - so after 30mins of listening to a couple of tracks back to back, there are some obvious differences in the sounds of the two DACs.

Testing was Abrahamsen V1 UP CD direct to V2 UP amp via Audioquest sydney RCA vs Abrahamsen V1 UP to Rega DAC via AQ VCM-1 coax then AQ sydney into the V2 amp. (All with B&W PM1 and QED silver anniversary XT speaker cable)

1. The Rega DAC produces a slightly narrower soundstage which is most noticeable on vocals, but a significantly shallower soundstage. There is definitely more space around the instruments.

2. The Rega DAC was noticeably louder than the Abra DAC. To achieve the smae volume, I had to turn up the amp 2 clicks.

3. The bass was a little warmer on the Rega - a certain trait of theirs.

4. The sound was more "accurate" and cleaner via the Abra DAC.

Granted, this testing was over a short timeframe, the amp has not yet been "broken in" as I've had it running for about 5hours and Abrahamsen say 96hrs. I can only assume the CD player will get better with a few more hours under its belt too.

For less than £30, I'm going to order some of the cables mentioned above and give them a try too.

 

[mocenigo]

2. The Rega DAC was noticeably louder than the Abra DAC. To achieve the smae volume, I had to turn up the amp 2 clicks.

The Rega DAC has a Maximum output level = 2.175V into 100KΩ load (unbalanced) and the Abrahamsen DAC 1.6V (I guess into the load of an Abrahamsem pre, that should me 110KΩ load, hence substantially the same). This would correspond to your experience.

Also, use a balanced XLR connection to connect an Abrahamsen source (and in general any source with a balanced output) with your V2.0 UP. The difference is definitely noticeable on all sound parameters: detail, staging, noise level (even using the same cable for both RCA and XLR connections: you can use a good microphone cable either as balanced, or for RCA while additionally connecting the shield only on the source side). I am using both Van den Hul D102 MkIII and Sommer Cable Epilogue for balanced connections. These are more in the 70-90GBP price range for 75cm links, but you would do no wrong with any decent cable at lower price ranges (Sommer Cable Albedo or Galileo, for instance, are very popular here in Germany).

best

Roberto

 

[Andrewjvt]

OK - so after 30mins of listening to a couple of tracks back to back, there are some obvious differences in the sounds of the two DACs.

Testing was Abrahamsen V1 UP CD direct to V2 UP amp via Audioquest sydney RCA vs Abrahamsen V1 UP to Rega DAC via AQ VCM-1 coax then AQ sydney into the V2 amp. (All with B&W PM1 and QED silver anniversary XT speaker cable)

1. The Rega DAC produces a slightly narrower soundstage which is most noticeable on vocals, but a significantly shallower soundstage.  There is definitely more space around the instruments.

2. The Rega DAC was noticeably louder than the Abra DAC.  To achieve the smae volume, I had to turn up the amp 2 clicks.

3. The bass was a little warmer on the Rega - a certain trait of theirs.

4. The sound was more "accurate" and cleaner via the Abra DAC.

Granted, this testing was over a short timeframe, the amp has not yet been "broken in" as I've had it running for about 5hours and Abrahamsen say 96hrs.  I can only assume the CD player will get better with a few more hours under its belt too.

For less than £30, I'm going to order some of the cables mentioned above and give them a try too.

Sounds like another happy man converted to the vikings

 

[voxmortis]

Hi guys,

I've bought balanced system recently (Yamaha AS-2000 and Yamaha CD-S2100) and I'm very much interested in buying XLR cables.

I've auditioned Supra EFX-I XLR for one week but was very disappointed by its sound since my considerably cheap custom made RCA cable sounded MUCH better.

I was extremely suprised by this fact because I heard so many times that once you use XLR connection the quality of cables become irrelevant and they all sound much better than RCA ones.

Eventually I would like to know a little more about sound character of these Van Damme cables. Could you please elaborate a little more on this issue? You obvously have really nice systems and I wonder if you still use these cables, if so for how long you have been using them and have you compared them to any other XLR cables.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Hi guys,

I've bought balanced system recently (Yamaha AS-2000 and Yamaha CD-S2100) and I'm very much interested in buying XLR cables.

I've auditioned Supra EFX-I XLR for one week but was very disappointed by its sound since my considerably cheap custom made RCA cable sounded MUCH better.

I was extremely suprised by this fact because I heard so many times that once you use XLR connection the quality of cables become irrelevant and they all sound much better than RCA ones.

Eventually I would like to know a little more about sound character of these Van Damme cables. Could you please elaborate a little more on this issue? You obvously have really nice systems and I wonder if you still use these cables, if so for how long you have been using them and have you compared them to any other XLR cables.

Thank you in advance.

hi XLR cables will not improve the sound only make the sound a little louder I have just got the Yamaha S2100 amp and ordered the cdplayer to match the amp I will be using the XLR connection ones I've got the cdplayer but I've noticed in the Yamaha S2100 instructions that you have to set the pin configuration have you done this ? There is a Attenuator selector and a Phase selector on the back of the amp has yours got this as I see you have the model before the Yamaha S2100 come out but at the moment I am using RCAs which are just as good

 

[voxmortis]

Hi there,

There are no selectors on the back of A-S2000. I guess these are the improvements included in A-S2100.

 

[nopiano]

Hi there,

There are no selectors on the back of A-S2000. I guess these are the improvements included in A-S2100.

Welcome vox, and congrats on your system. Having an amp with XLR connectors doesn't necessarily mean it is a fully balanced system. Not enough time tp explain, but believe me!

You might find you prefer XLR but you might not. Results aren't predictable. I use XLR between my cd and amp but only because it was recommended. You've done the right thing and listened. If you prefer the RCA then I suggest you stick with them. Might be worth borrowing another XLR set just to try it, however.

Van damme are decent quality, and used in some studios. No special claims are made for it, which many feel is how it should be.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Hi there,

There are no selectors on the back of A-S2000. I guess these are the improvements included in A-S2100.

ok I guessed it would be the same on your amp too so this must be something they have done differently on the S-2100

 

[voxmortis]

Hi there,

There are no selectors on the back of A-S2000. I guess these are the improvements included in A-S2100.

Welcome vox, and congrats on your system. Having an amp with XLR connectors doesn't necessarily mean it is a fully balanced system. Not enough time tp explain, but believe me!

You might find you prefer XLR but you might not. Results aren't predictable. I use XLR between my cd and amp but only because it was recommended. You've done the right thing and listened. If you prefer the RCA then I suggest you stick with them. Might be worth borrowing another XLR set just to try it, however.

Van damme are decent quality, and used in some studios. No special claims are made for it, which many feel is how it should be.

Thank you for the reply.

It was claimed by Yamaha that both 2000 and 2100 devices are fully balanced. I totally agree that I may like RCA over XLR but since I have possibility to use (or at least check) balanced connection I think it would be reasonable to try it.

The question I have for now is how are these Van Damme cables comparing to other ones? I think that guys who useused them compared them to some other cables and it would be interesting to know the results of such a comparison.

 

[davedotco]

The A-S2000 is a balanced design, up to the power amo stages anyway.

The CD player, like many others, uses a differential dac configuration that produces a balanced output 'by default'. So technically it should be better to use a balanced connector to simplify the circuit, ie you do not need the summing circuit in the CD player nor do you need the reverse circuits in the amplifier, to produce a balanced signal.

So the question has to be asked, what makes the difference?

The usual culprit here is that the two signal paths produce a slightly different level, 0.5dB is more than enough to give the louder connection a convincing advantage.

I use Van Damme cables, 3m custom pairs both in rca/phono and XLR, I simply use whatever is needed to drive my speakers which have both unbalanced and balanced inputs. It never really occured to me that there would (could?) be a diference.