Im very impressed by the 800 series that Im considering getting me the 804Ds. Im currently using Harman Kardon AVR660 which has plenty of head room. I know its ideal to go the separates route but I cant for now. I want to know what you guys think of 804Ds being pushed by HK avr660. I know it may not drive them to their full potential but Will it struggle so much that I shouldnt consider getting the 804Ds until I can afford separates? Pls help
B&W 804D
- Thread starter power
- Start date
Like you said it yourself; you will not drive it to its full potential. But, why bother? The next step , is getting a new amp!
I think in general that B&W-speakers are overpriced and demanding to much from too expensive amps. Look, for instance at the Kef's R-series or the Epos Elan-series. After that you could be glad to have left some money in the pocket for nice other things than hifi. Good luck!
Rethep said:
Im sorry I have to ask this question. What is it with how some people respond to a thread by not rsponding to what the question was. I know it probably comes down to the willingness to help but I didnt ask which other brand of speakers I can go for. All I wanted to know was specific to the 804s. I apologise if Im coming across as ungrateful
power said:
In answer to your question as asked, it is my opinion that you should not match the 804D with the HK, unless you are going to upgrade it in the not too distant future.
As an aside, I wish I had a pound for every time the answer to a direct question came from "left field".
WishTree
Well-known member
- May 18, 2010
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power said:
Given the demanding nature of 804Ds and possible obvious limitations of the AVR, there by not able to drive the 804Ds to their full potential - IMO you shouldnt consider getting the 804Ds until you can afford separates that can drive 804Ds to their full potential.
I hope the reply is straight to the question.
PS: I am tempted to write about how muh I like the 804Ds but well it was not the original question so..
WishTree said:
Hi
As advised above your next step is to buy a new amp with a decent power ,Trying to match speakers that demand a lot of power with AVR is not a good idea . I made the same mistake in the past ; I bought the MISSION MX-5 and tried to match them with my YAMAHA AVR and the results were very poor than I bought an AMP- ROKSAN KANDY K2 and now my speakers sounds great !
B&W 804D are expensive and with the same price you can match a good AMP and decent other speakers !
The intention is to get the 804ds and a decent poer amp that will last me for a long time. I dont have a bag of money to get everything at once so I thought i will start with the 804Ds. My HK avr 660 wont push the 804D to their full potential but it will do a decent job whilst waiting to get a good power amp. The question is if I go for an HTM4 will it really need a power amp or will I be able to get away with a 2 channel amp driving the floorstanders and the centre bng driven by the avr.
I know many people hv gone with preamp+power amp. Whats the limitation with using a receiver as a preamp vs a dedicated preamp. Im asking this bcs it would be cost effective to use my current avr through preouts into a power amp.
I know many people hv gone with preamp+power amp. Whats the limitation with using a receiver as a preamp vs a dedicated preamp. Im asking this bcs it would be cost effective to use my current avr through preouts into a power amp.
I can see your logic: use the AV amp to do the processing and bide your time as you add power amps to the front speakers (I think the center will eventually need a power amp, as it's the most important one for AV).
The other possibility is to demo an AVR600, which would work really well for both AV and 2 channel, and then add the fronts when you can afford it....and if suitable, get one ex-dem.
Anyway, good luck with your decision.
The other possibility is to demo an AVR600, which would work really well for both AV and 2 channel, and then add the fronts when you can afford it....and if suitable, get one ex-dem.
Anyway, good luck with your decision.
power said:
I don't know what your budget is, but (imo) the Arcam P777 is a really stunning piece of kit.
Cno
I have the feeling that you want people to tell you what you want to hear.... that the HK and 804s will pair well.
The simple answer is that they will pair well for home theatre duties, but you are missing a ton of performance for stereo. Even relatively cheap stereo amps will knock the socks off most AVRs, incl your HK. For awhile I was at the same stage as you, and lived with it that way for a few years (I also bought my expensive AVR with stereo performance in mind).
Then I got more into hifi and from my point of view there is categorically no comparison.... 804s are completely wasted on your AVR for stereo... look at setting aside some money for a proper amp with something called "HT bypass" or similar. Then you can connect the 804s to the stereo amp, connect the stereo amp to the AVR, and you have the best of both worlds.
Yep, you do come across as slightly ungrateful in your answer, but hey, lets give you the benefit of the doubt, shall we?
The simple answer is that they will pair well for home theatre duties, but you are missing a ton of performance for stereo. Even relatively cheap stereo amps will knock the socks off most AVRs, incl your HK. For awhile I was at the same stage as you, and lived with it that way for a few years (I also bought my expensive AVR with stereo performance in mind).
Then I got more into hifi and from my point of view there is categorically no comparison.... 804s are completely wasted on your AVR for stereo... look at setting aside some money for a proper amp with something called "HT bypass" or similar. Then you can connect the 804s to the stereo amp, connect the stereo amp to the AVR, and you have the best of both worlds.
Yep, you do come across as slightly ungrateful in your answer, but hey, lets give you the benefit of the doubt, shall we?
krlock3 said:
+1. Seems a bit of a waste to have just an a/v receiver feeding those beauties. However, get them and build from there 🙂
The reason I started this thread is I wanted to hear what people think abt how I should go with this. My challenge is I wont be able to afford to change everything at once hence my question of what you guys think. My objective is to ultimately get the power amp as suggested by some people. I dont know why you say I sound a bit ungrateful. Once again thanks Cno. I'll build it bit by bit
... because you berate somebody for taking the time to share their opinion with you, as it doesnt conform to your expectation of a good answer?
and then you say yourself... "i apologise if im coming across as ungrateful."
then I offer my opinion and you shun it and make a point of just thanking cno.
good luck with your quest.
krlock3.
and then you say yourself... "i apologise if im coming across as ungrateful."
then I offer my opinion and you shun it and make a point of just thanking cno.
good luck with your quest.
krlock3.
power said:
power said:
Hi ,
It is almost for sure that your HK will not be able to move the B&W 804D in Stereo , Also It is not sure that your
HK can be a good pre for a seperate power amp in the future. (AVR in general has big limitations in Stereo ) .
It is better to match a good pre with a power amp or to buy a decent integrated amp . I think it better for you not
to buy the B&W 840D , You can look for other good cheaper speakers and to match them with power+ pre/ integrated
amp whole package in the same price and maybe even cheaper than the B&W 804D alone !
ISAC69 said:
This would be my worry as well.
A good preamp is essential for decent stereo reproduction, especially where you are using speakers as revealing as these. IMO. If using a pre/pro for 2 channel with the 804Ds, I would see the likes of the Arcam AV888 as a minimum.....otherwise an integrated amp (as stated above) would be better.
I don't know the HK at all and have limited experience of AV kit, so won't join that debate (not that it usually stops people here!)
But I may be able to add a bit to your decision process. In my experience it's better to spend more on the speakers than the amp than vice versa. Contrary to the source first 'rule' that used to be in vogue.
The experience is based on when I demo'd B&W 802 and 803 Nautilus speakers. To keep the budget similar I listened to 803's with dearer amps (Chord) and the 802's with lower cost amps (Meridian). It was night and day in favour of the 802 / Meridian combination, which I duly bought.
I kept this pairing until I eventually downsized, several years later. Getting to know the 802's well I was never sure they were being driven properly by the Meridian though, and would have liked to upgrade. My original decision was still valid, it's just that the urge to upgrade was quite strong fairly early on. So if the HK will drive the 804's then go for it, just start working on the business-case-to-self-for-the-upgrade soon!
Ps new 804's, or second hand 803's? In fact go the second hand route, save at least a grand, bingo, there's the new amp. Or are you thing used 804's anyway? Just a thought.
But I may be able to add a bit to your decision process. In my experience it's better to spend more on the speakers than the amp than vice versa. Contrary to the source first 'rule' that used to be in vogue.
The experience is based on when I demo'd B&W 802 and 803 Nautilus speakers. To keep the budget similar I listened to 803's with dearer amps (Chord) and the 802's with lower cost amps (Meridian). It was night and day in favour of the 802 / Meridian combination, which I duly bought.
I kept this pairing until I eventually downsized, several years later. Getting to know the 802's well I was never sure they were being driven properly by the Meridian though, and would have liked to upgrade. My original decision was still valid, it's just that the urge to upgrade was quite strong fairly early on. So if the HK will drive the 804's then go for it, just start working on the business-case-to-self-for-the-upgrade soon!
Ps new 804's, or second hand 803's? In fact go the second hand route, save at least a grand, bingo, there's the new amp. Or are you thing used 804's anyway? Just a thought.
Ther are some used 803S not D available 2nd hand but my concern with the 803 is my room size. Its about 4x7 m which I think its too small for 803s. Regarding stereo performance of the HK, I am very happy with how this receiver performs there. My concern was just on it bng able to drive 804s with authority which most people seem to suggest that it wont do justice to them. In that regard my option is to go for a power amp and keep the avr bcs Im very happy with its performance on stereo and surround.
I'm not intending to be intransigent, so please don't take the following comments as being argumentative as I (and everyone else) have your best interests at heart:
- Have you heard the stereo performance of the HK with the 804s?
- Have you compared a decent integrated amp (£2k-2.5k) with the HK for 2 channel, and if you have, it would also be advisable to compare both on the 804s?
With hifi, things are inclined to sound "good", until you hear better, and then good is no longer good enough (I know this from experience!). I think that anyone who has made a comment, is only concerned that a chain is only as good as it's weakest link.
Anyway, at the end of the day it's your money and your decision
Best of luck with it all
Cno
- Have you heard the stereo performance of the HK with the 804s?
- Have you compared a decent integrated amp (£2k-2.5k) with the HK for 2 channel, and if you have, it would also be advisable to compare both on the 804s?
With hifi, things are inclined to sound "good", until you hear better, and then good is no longer good enough (I know this from experience!). I think that anyone who has made a comment, is only concerned that a chain is only as good as it's weakest link.
Anyway, at the end of the day it's your money and your decision
Best of luck with it all
Cno
power said:
That's exactly where I'm coming from......you can then feel comfortable that you've made the right decisions.
power said:
Hi
I think you misunderstood us don't get reed of the HK AVR keep it for the seround option !
But for stereo purpose You must have a good pre+ power / integrated amp once you demo it you will see
that improvement will be a day and night compare to AVR .
But as advised above by others it's your money ...
the 804 D needs a rather big room to perform well. Amplifiers have to be selected well.
The Creek Destiny 2, but also a Pathos Inpol Remix are perfect partners for these High End speakers.
The Creek Destiny 2, but also a Pathos Inpol Remix are perfect partners for these High End speakers.
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