B&W 683 S2 matching Amp and Watts per channel...

[Laurens_B]

Hello all,

So I have bought a pair of B&W 683 S2 speakers last week, and I am very happy with them! I have them connected to a Yamaha RX-A2020 receiver right now, but I am thinking of getting a nice integrated amp to get more out of the speakers. I bi-amped the speakers (Van Den Hul Teatrack cables).

I have auditioned the 683 s2 on a Rotel RA-12, and I really liked the Rotel sound (over Marantz (too mellow) and NAD (too bright)).

Everywhere I read that B&W loudspeakers are difficult to drive because of the impedance dip (3 ohms), but I can not find a impedance-frequency plot, so I am not sure at what frequency the 3 ohms is reached. This made me think that the RA-12 might be underpowered for the task, so I was looking at the Rotel RA-1570 integrated.

Most people tell me that integrated amp watts are always better than receiver watts, but I can't help to think that if the two are measured in the same way (20 Hz - 20 kHz, 8 ohms, 0.06% THD), the power quality is equal, so what am I missing here?

Power stats: RX-A2020 (140 wpc, 20-20.000 hz, 8 ohms, 0.06% THD), RA-1570 (120 wpc, 20-20.000 hz, 8 ohms, 0.03% THD), RA-12 (60 wpc, 20-20.000 hz, 8 ohms, 0.03% THD).

Anyone has an idea whether the RA-1570 would indeed be (far?) more capable of driving the 683 S2s than my RX-A2020?

Thanks!

 

[alancrane9271]

It be worth checking out the regar amplifiers brio-r be a very good starting point for those b&w s2 enjoy

 

[Vladimir]

Laurens needs an amplifier to drive his B&W 683 s2, not 685 s2 (in case you misread his post). Just to make sure, did you suggest the Rega Brio-R for the 683 s2 or 685 s2?

 

[Laurens_B]

Thanks for the tips!

But Rega is not a brand that is available to me as far as I know (I live in the Netherlands). Brands available for me for auditioning are: Marantz, Denon, Rotel, Cambridge Audio, Yamaha, NAD, Roksan (K2), Onkyo, Pioneer... I think that's about it.

Main question is.. what should I spend on a stereo amp to outperform my RX-A2020, and I still don't fully get the watts per channel story either.

Thanks!

 

[davedotco]

Thanks for the tips!

But Rega is not a brand that is available to me as far as I know (I live in the Netherlands). Brands available for me for auditioning are: Marantz, Denon, Rotel, Cambridge Audio, Yamaha, NAD, Roksan (K2), Onkyo, Pioneer... I think that's about it.

Main question is.. what should I spend on a stereo amp to outperform my RX-A2020, and I still don't fully get the watts per channel story either.

Thanks!

Thats ok, most people don't 'get' them either.

There are two things you need to know.

The Watts quoted in the manufacturers specification and the Watts you get at home into real world speakers are not the same thing at all, in the case of budget amplifiers and particularly A/V receivers they are barely related.

The second thing is just how little power you need in some circumstances and how much you need in others. Play some nicely recorded music at apartment friendly levels and a couple of watts is probably all you need, on the other hand, some modern, bass heavy music played loudly with a few 'mates' and you will run out of power before you get to the second beer.

You need to work out where you stand on these matters, especially the whole power/loudness issue.

 

[Laurens_B]

Thanks for your reply.

As for the loudness.. I mostly listen to jazz, acoustic, blues, so not very demanding. However, I occasionally like to listen to Hans Zimmer music at reasonable levels (-15dB to -10dB at the RX-A2020). I think that is quite demanding music, for example Hans Zimmer - Time.

So basically what I require is an amp that can do those levels with minimum distortion. And an amp that will provide better quality sound on all levels (clarity, stereo image, vocals etc.). Will a Rotel RA-12 be sufficient for those tasks with 60wpc, or will the RA-1570 be absolutely necessary?

Thanks!

 

[davedotco]

Thanks for your reply.

As for the loudness.. I mostly listen to jazz, acoustic, blues, so not very demanding. However, I occasionally like to listen to Hans Zimmer music at reasonable levels (-15dB to -10dB at the RX-A2020). I think that is quite demanding music, for example Hans Zimmer - Time.

So basically what I require is an amp that can do those levels with minimum distortion. And an amp that will provide better quality sound on all levels (clarity, stereo image, vocals etc.). Will a Rotel RA-12 be sufficient for those tasks with 60wpc, or will the RA-1570 be absolutely necessary?

Thanks!

Can't really help with the specifics, not brands I spend any time with, but in general terms a more powerful amplifier gives more presence and a greater sense of ease, both at the same time. If the bigger amplifier is affordable, go for it.

 

[Freddy58]

Hiya Laurens.

I can't speak for the RA-12, but I do have the 1570. I have to say that it drives my Kef R300's with ease, completely effortless. It's also worth noting that it has a built-in DAC, so connectivity is very good, as is the build quality. I'm impressed with it, but I'm probably easily pleased *biggrin*

Of course, this is only my opinion, others are available.

 

[davedotco]

Hiya Laurens.

I can't speak for the RA-12, but I do have the 1570. I have to say that it drives my Kef R300's with ease, completely effortless. It's also worth noting that it has a built-in DAC, so connectivity is very good, as is the build quality. I'm impressed with it, but I'm probably easily pleased *biggrin*

Of course, this is only my opinion, others are available.

Always good to hear from someone with hands on experience.

Tell us more.......*music2*

 

[Freddy58]

Hiya Laurens.

I can't speak for the RA-12, but I do have the 1570. I have to say that it drives my Kef R300's with ease, completely effortless. It's also worth noting that it has a built-in DAC, so connectivity is very good, as is the build quality. I'm impressed with it, but I'm probably easily pleased *biggrin*

Of course, this is only my opinion, others are available.

Always good to hear from someone with hands on experience.

Tell us more.......*music2*

Hiya Dave.

Not much to say really, as I'm not technically minded, unless you wanted to know why I decided on it?

I never play at high volumes, but the level of control convinces me that if I wanted to, it could easliy handle it. The phono stage (which is an important part for me) seems pretty good. Although I have no experience in seperate phono stages, my front end (an old Rega Planar 3 fitted with Goldring 1042) sounds great. It certainly exceeds my expectations. It comes with a blue tooth dongle thingy, so it's possible to 'beam' things *smile* Imagery is good, and as for tone, I would say it's very neutral, which is what I wanted. Do other amps sound better? Probably, but I'm very happy with it. I think it's the amps ability to handle anything thrown at it with ease that I find most impressive, it all sounds so...easy. Of course, other amps will no doubt be just as capable, so I can only speak from my own very limited experience.

Oh yes, and it has tone controls *blum3* *biggrin*

 

[Freddy58]

Tell us more.......*music2*

Not that interested eh?

Anyway Laurens, I hope this has been of some use to you

 

[davedotco]

Tell us more.......*music2*

Not that interested eh?

Anyway Laurens, I hope this has been of some use to you

Very interested, just busy elswhere.

What would be interesting is how the amp handles different inputs, particularly the difference between vinyl and digital. The older Rotels that I am more familier with were very straightforward in their delivery, by that I mean no great 'wow' factor but a sense of control and ease that was very commanding, a bit forcefull sometimes.

I have not had hands on with the newer models which seem rather more sophisticated if a bit pricier. Really just wondering if they maintain the value for money status that was so obvious in the older models.....*unknw*

 

[Freddy58]

Hiya Dave.

What would be interesting is how the amp handles different inputs, particularly the difference between vinyl and digital.

That sounds like a technical question unless I'm mistaken? Please be aware, this aspect is something that is beyond me. I'm just a dumb@ss that knows what sound he likes/dislikes *smile*

The older Rotels that I am more familier with were very straightforward in their delivery, by that I mean no great 'wow' factor but a sense of control and ease that was very commanding, a bit forcefull sometimes.

I kinda know what you mean there. Years ago (70's) I remember a friend of mine had a powerful Sansui amp put through some Gales. Great control as I recall, but it all sounded a bit...hard. I can't speak for the older Rotels, but in terms of this one, I sense no hardness at all, it's really quite smooth.

Really just wondering if they maintain the value for money status that was so obvious in the older models.....*unknw*

For me, given the great sound quality, the onboard DAC/connectivity, the build quality, I think they stand up well. Of course, this is just my opinion, and I have no great knowledge of other brands.

Just to add, what I like about this amp, is that at even quite low levels, the 'presence' is still there.

 

[davedotco]

Your comments are very positive, which is good.

The reason I asked about different inputs is that I have found that some amps 'sound different' on an analogue input or phono input or via an onboard dac.

So not technical, just a view from someone who uses the amplifier and can do the comparisons.

Back in the day we (as dealers) would get asked by hi-fi enthusiast customers to install 'good' systems in their shops and workspaces. We used inexpensive but rather nice JPW speakers that were known to have a benign, highish impedence and drove them with Rotel RB850 and 870 power amplifiers, two pairs of speakers (in parallel) per amplifier.

Good sounding and pretty reliable, I know of a couple of setups that were used regularly for the best part of 10 years.

 

[Laurens_B]

Thanks for all your inputs! Very helpful.

I think I just need to get an A-B test with my current amplifier and see where the differences are at. Not so easy to get those units for testing though..

 

[Freddy58]

Your comments are very positive, which is good.

The reason I asked about different inputs is that I have found that some amps 'sound different' on an analogue input or phono input or via an onboard dac.

So not technical, just a view from someone who uses the amplifier and can do the comparisons.

Back in the day we (as dealers) would get asked by hi-fi enthusiast customers to install 'good' systems in their shops and workspaces. We used inexpensive but rather nice JPW speakers that were known to have a benign, highish impedence and drove them with Rotel RB850 and 870 power amplifiers, two pairs of speakers (in parallel) per amplifier.

Good sounding and pretty reliable, I know of a couple of setups that were used regularly for the best part of 10 years.

Ahh right.

I think that's a difficult question. Regarding phono, I've always thought vinyl sounded different anyway, sometimes better, sometimes worse, but still different.

The only time I currently use the onboard DAC, is when listening to the free (low res) version of Spotify, so hardly a benchmark. I've not tried ripping a CD to Flac to compare that way, and I've also not tried switching from analogue out to digital out from the CD player. So, all in all, I can't offer anything of value regarding your question, sorry.

 

[davedotco]

Your comments are very positive, which is good.

The reason I asked about different inputs is that I have found that some amps 'sound different' on an analogue input or phono input or via an onboard dac.

So not technical, just a view from someone who uses the amplifier and can do the comparisons.

Back in the day we (as dealers) would get asked by hi-fi enthusiast customers to install 'good' systems in their shops and workspaces. We used inexpensive but rather nice JPW speakers that were known to have a benign, highish impedence and drove them with Rotel RB850 and 870 power amplifiers, two pairs of speakers (in parallel) per amplifier.

Good sounding and pretty reliable, I know of a couple of setups that were used regularly for the best part of 10 years.

Ahh right.

I think that's a difficult question. Regarding phono, I've always thought vinyl sounded different anyway, sometimes better, sometimes worse, but still different.

The only time I currently use the onboard DAC, is when listening to the free (low res) version of Spotify, so hardly a benchmark. I've not tried ripping a CD to Flac to compare that way, and I've also not tried switching from analogue out to digital out from the CD player. So, all in all, I can't offer anything of value regarding your question, sorry.

Ahh, ok.

It must be just my usual obsessiveness as when I get a new 'toy' i have to try all the options and work out what I think is going on, mad I know.

Once I have done that, I can select the best option and play the music, doesn't bother me again.