but does it work? Can the icc chip restore the bad dynamics on cd's? Or is LP still the best? I read very good reviews about the Lyngdorf. But also that it is on the bright side and bad records sounded very bad on this amp. Also not forgiving.davedotco said:
This is a vinyl v CD thread isn't it?
Well CD's sound better - get over it people......
Louder does not equate to worse and that DR site is misleading with regards the info presented ref 'dynamic range'.
Some of you need to adjust and address your fear of the volume knob.
There will always be poor recordings aswell as pristine ones......enjoy your music.
Well CD's sound better - get over it people......
Louder does not equate to worse and that DR site is misleading with regards the info presented ref 'dynamic range'.
Some of you need to adjust and address your fear of the volume knob.
There will always be poor recordings aswell as pristine ones......enjoy your music.
No. But they can't get away with the same dynamic massacre on a record because by and large it wouldn't play. Hence the comparison with records, which as irony would have it, often have better-sounding masters cut to them than CDs and downloads because of their physical limitations.Thompsonuxb said:
For reasons already given which you don't seem to be able to grasp, it's not that clear cut, especially if the CD is made from a crap master.Thompsonuxb said:
If you are as well-educated as you say then your fundamental inability to grasp what we're talking about is surprising.Thompsonuxb said:
Blacksabbath25
Well-known member
I see a utube video on which is better cd / vinyl ... And the video said that vinyl was much better then cd but they were also saying that older vinyl was better as it was straight copy from the master tapes which was analog back in the day that's way vinyl sounds better then cd but with modern vinyl it's just a digital copy taken from the master tapes as they record all modern vinyl / cds from a digital source so the dr range will be the same for both cd / vinyl . Is this right or wrong
I understand that they say cd is better? Yes, normaly. But that is without the loudness war. But with the loudness war?
MeanandGreen
Well-known member
The loudness debate seems to cause confusion with some people about vinyl vs CD. The loudness wars has got nothing to do with digital vs analogue. Poor (in the hi Fi world) mastering or production is deliberate and this doesn't automatically make digital bad or inferior. If anything it highlights the limitations of vinyl because it simply cannot cope with some of the mastering (even if it is bad) done today whereas digital just presents it to us how it is. If that means it's rubbish. it was recorded rubbish and that's high fidelity.
Technically CD outperforms the vinyl record in every measurable way. A really well mastered CD will outperform the equivilant vinyl and there is no getting around that.
The vinyl versions of some albums may be mastered differently due to the limitations of the format. If that means that particular record has a better DR than the CD version so be it. The CD could of been mastered even better but the muppets who produced decided not to.
I wish my Noel Gallagher vinyl was mastered to suit the format because it wasn't. One particular 12" single I have is distorted to hell and totally unplayable as far as I'm concerned. The CD version although still terribly produced is playable at least. It's not all black and white that the vinyl version is better.
The DR scale doesn't necessarily guarantee what you're going to perceive as good or bad either.
Technically CD outperforms the vinyl record in every measurable way. A really well mastered CD will outperform the equivilant vinyl and there is no getting around that.
The vinyl versions of some albums may be mastered differently due to the limitations of the format. If that means that particular record has a better DR than the CD version so be it. The CD could of been mastered even better but the muppets who produced decided not to.
I wish my Noel Gallagher vinyl was mastered to suit the format because it wasn't. One particular 12" single I have is distorted to hell and totally unplayable as far as I'm concerned. The CD version although still terribly produced is playable at least. It's not all black and white that the vinyl version is better.
The DR scale doesn't necessarily guarantee what you're going to perceive as good or bad either.
I think the loudness war gives bad and bright sounding cd's and that's why LP the best for your ears. And you can long listen to it.
More sabre rattling Major?
I will say some of the last few CD's I've bought have been really well produced.
One of the more outstanding features being the 'silence' in the background and during those quite periods.
To be honest I do completely understand this argument - touched on it with my post that mentions Gregory Porter's 'Liquid Spirit' but it looks like it was missed.
I can understand what is trying to be achieved by most of these modern producers the way they mix modern pop.
And to be fair a well sorted 'source' should have the ability to resolve some of these mixes.
Using a budget cdplayer and dac to RIP to a hard drive only because some believe digital is digital is not the way.
Pairing a quality amp and speakers with a budget source is a recipe for dissatisfaction.
There is no loudness war. ....oh regards my education.....prrrrft!
I will say some of the last few CD's I've bought have been really well produced.
One of the more outstanding features being the 'silence' in the background and during those quite periods.
To be honest I do completely understand this argument - touched on it with my post that mentions Gregory Porter's 'Liquid Spirit' but it looks like it was missed.
I can understand what is trying to be achieved by most of these modern producers the way they mix modern pop.
And to be fair a well sorted 'source' should have the ability to resolve some of these mixes.
Using a budget cdplayer and dac to RIP to a hard drive only because some believe digital is digital is not the way.
Pairing a quality amp and speakers with a budget source is a recipe for dissatisfaction.
There is no loudness war. ....oh regards my education.....prrrrft!
Wrong. The loudness war exist. In my genre, rock and metal, cd's sounded very bad. Lp better for your ears.
matt49
Well-known member
Thompsonuxb said:
You haven't got a clue.
Sonos Connect > DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core > Sanders Magtech > Martin Logan Montis
Absolutely wonderful.
Digital is digital. Get over it.
To add....
Back in the day when a man could use tone controls or a graphic equaliser without fear of dirty looks - most would compromise an originals recording with wild abandon.
The Vshape, or the Wshape across an equaliser was the norm.
Raising the level of the instruments between top end and bass above the vocals was standard fair before we all attempted to be audiophiles (Google images of equalisers - you'll see what I mean) ....let's not forget the master volume being pushed beyond good taste.
In fact we did the compression thing ourselves to our own music.
Much a do about nothing - you should all start a petition to bring back equalisers.
Back in the day when a man could use tone controls or a graphic equaliser without fear of dirty looks - most would compromise an originals recording with wild abandon.
The Vshape, or the Wshape across an equaliser was the norm.
Raising the level of the instruments between top end and bass above the vocals was standard fair before we all attempted to be audiophiles (Google images of equalisers - you'll see what I mean) ....let's not forget the master volume being pushed beyond good taste.
In fact we did the compression thing ourselves to our own music.
Much a do about nothing - you should all start a petition to bring back equalisers.
matt49 said:
Another sound bite with no substance Matt49.
C'mon, explain why I have no clue Matt.....
Electro
Well-known member
This video explains everthing simply and completely so that anyone can understand the detrimental effect of the loudness war . *good*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ
Appologies if it has been already posted .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ
Appologies if it has been already posted .
loneranger said:
Ok loneranger, you got me because I have no metal in my collection.
Still surprised with a little adjustment you can't find a satisfactory solution to your issue.
Maybe for your music you need lower-fi.....
Electro said:
This is an interesting video.
Try and listen to it ignoring the narrators prompting.
You may notice other instruments. Have a listen.
I also touched on this when I mentioned recording LP's to CD but never touched on the having to resist not pushing the levels too high into the red, +6db and above....
But listen to that video.
matt49
Well-known member
Thompsonuxb said:
The substance is in my post.
I use a budget digital source with expensive amplification and speakers, which you said was a recipe for dissatisfaction. But I'm satisfied. It sounds wonderful.
You're trapped in an old-fashioned mindset that thinks a source has to be expensive, a throwback to the analog days when expensive engineering could make a real difference. Digital changed all that. All competently designed digital sources playing lossless files sound identical.
Covenanter
Well-known member
Thompsonuxb said:
No. Just trying to point out why you're wrong. Normally it's absolutely ok to be wrong and people learn from it when the facts are explained to them, and you can almost hear the penny drop and the light-bulb switch on. Conversely, what happens with you is about six of us try to explain something, and in your mind it's it's always us who's wrong. In previous threads you've bemoaned the fact that people don't seem open to ideas and discoveries (think it was the ridiculous speaker-cable directionality thread), while at the same time you switch-off to any and all reasonable attempts to explain things to you that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of.
Other than that you're a good egg and there's lots of evidence on the forum showing where you've been first to jump in and give new members especially the benefit of your advice and experience. Wish we could somehow improve your weaknesses while maintaining your qualities.
Thompsonuxb said:
You don't seem to understand that the listener can't undistort badly mastered recordings. There's nothing to adjust.
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