AVI DM10 and AVI subwoofer review

steve_1979

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So I think it'll be best to start this review with a disclaimer to (hopefully) avoid any negative comments from the AVI haters.
smile.png


I appreciate that different people have differing tastes and not everyone likes the same speakers. So take this review with a pinch of salt as these comments are all 'in my opinion' and 'to my own personal tastes'. Also bare in mind that I'm a self confessed AVI fanboi. This is the third set of AVI speakers that I've owned because to my ears they have exactly the type of sound that I like. Right, with that out of the way lets get on with the review.

Lets start with the big question first. Are the DM10's really as big an improvement over the previous ADM9's as Ashley James says? Absolutely, definitely and without a doubt yes they are as big an improvement as he promised. The overall sound and tonal character is still very similar to the old ADM9's and DM5's but the clarity, level of detail and stereo image has taken several steps up in terms of resolution and definition. They still share the same AVI 'house sound' as the old speakers so any existing AVI owners who are upgrading to the DM10's will, I'm sure, be over the moon when they hear these. Anyone who disliked the old ADM9's probably won't like the new speakers for the same reasons though so if you like your hifi with big boomy bass or a warm and cuddly mid-range and treble then these are probably not going to be the speakers for you. But if like me you want an ultra clear and detailed sound while still being super smooth and easy to listen to then they're ideal.

They have more bass than the ADM9's and DM5's too. Initially for the first day or two I thought that they didn't but now that I've had them for a couple of weeks any initial reservations that I had about them being slightly lean sounding have completely disappeared. After several hours of listening what I originally though was leaness is in fact just ultra high levels of clarity and control. The bass is deep, rock solid, and defined in a way that I've never heard from any other speaker ever before. When playing rave music at high volume they'll kick you in the chest like an angry mule on steroids. They actually have quite a lot of bass but because it's so tight and controlled without even the slightest hint of boom or blurred edges at the beginning and end of notes you may miss it on a brief first listen as I did but live with them for a couple of days and you'll quickly come to realise that this is what bass should be like. Regular passive hifi speakers with regular amplifiers just won't cut it anymore after you've lived with the DM10's for a few days. Taking the 10" AVI subwoofer out of the equation only makes a slight difference to the bass sound but you do lose some of the solid kick in your chest feeling. It's well worth the extra £800 upgrade and although the DM10's are excellent on their own I personally think that you won't be getting the full aural and physical package without it. Also unlike all my previous 2.1 systems I haven't felt the need to fiddle with the subwoofer volume like I used to because it always seems to sound right as it is (I'm using the AVI recommended 60Hz subwoofer crossover frequency but with the volume increased slightly from 12 to 1 o'clock).

The mid-range and treble sound beautiful too. My old AVI DM5's, while slightly limited in dynamic range, were previously the best that I'd ever heard in the mid-range and treble department but in a direct A/B comparison they somehow manage to sound ever so slightly 'thick' next to the DM10's. By normal speaker standards the DM5's are crystal clear and far better than almost everything else out there with a so called 'hifi' tag but the DM10's improve on the clarity not just a little bit but by quite some margin. Initially I thought the DM10's were a bit lean in the upper mid-range but that's just the urber clarity which makes it seem like that until you become accustomed to the sound. Just like with my Senheiser HD700 headphones which on a brief first listen are very similar until your brain has had the chance to recalibrate to this new ultra high level of detail at which point they just become tonally well balanced and very very detailed. Just as Ash says the clarity and detail is comparable to the best headphones available (well the HD700's in may case) and I totally agree with this. Most speakers, irrespective of price, aren't even in the same ballpark as good headphones where clarity and detail are concerned but the DM10's are right up there with some of the best.

The most impressive part of the DM10's is the stereo image. No joke these stereo speakers can really do surround sound better than most 5.1 speaker systems. They have a depth and width that goes far beyond the speakers. In a dark room with the lights turned off the speakers and room totally disappear with the music coming at you from all directions (ok mostly from the front 180 degrees but they still do 3D sound more convincingly that anything else I've ever heard). The sweet spot is big too. Different instrument sounds come from their own pinpoint perfectly defined point of space in the sound stage and they stay pinned there even when you move around. The spaces in between the instruments where there's no sound coming from are perfectly defined and spacious too. No doubt this is due to the very expensive custom made bass drivers and steep 8th order crossover that the DM10's use to allow them to stay in perfect phase throughout the crossover frequencies. Even the Genelec 8260A with their fancy co-axial mid/tweeter driver and clever wave guide doesn't match the razor sharp imaging of the DM10's.

They're well built with good looking high quality veneers but overall visually they're nothing all that special being just square boxes. At first I wasn't particularly taken with the width and size of them but I have to admit that they've grown on me over the past two weeks. I still think that the smaller and better proportioned DM5's look nicer though. One thing that I don't like is the amount of wires coming out of the back of them. Once my bank balance has recovered from the DM10 purchase I'm going to get some custom made speaker stands built to hide all those horrible wires.

Being remote controlled with a built in DAC and pre-amp is a nice touch and makes the DM10's a doddle to setup and use. There's no volume display though which is a shame but I can honestly say that I haven't missed it much as expected either so that's less of an issue than I thought it would be. As many of you already know I have a Nakamichi AV1 processor which I could use for DAC and pre-amp duties which would give me a display for the volume and would also allow me to adjust the subwoofer using the remote control but so far I haven't felt the need for it and I'm perfectly happy with the simple setup of a PC connected straight to the DM10's via a digital optical cable.

Last year I said it'd be great if a speaker system could combine the clarity of my HD700 headphones with the balls and punch of my Neutron Five 2.1 system and Ash said the DM5's would do this. Well, whilst the DM5's are still outstanding speakers they don't quite manage live up to that promise but these DM10's do. Even when pushed to silly loud ear drum destroying volume levels they still sound perfectly clear and unstressed. I used to think that a regular sub 100 watt hifi amplifier would have enough power but once you've heard speakers that sound this smooth and clear at any volume you quickly realise that it's not even close. Even at more normal volume levels this huge dynamic range gives the speakers an effortless feel that's hard to find with lesser powered systems. I turn these DM10 up as loud as I dare and they just seem to sit there smirking at me saying "Is that all you've got? Well I'm not even breaking a sweat."

I take my hat of to Martin Grindrod (the designer at AVI). That guy is an electronics and acoustics engineering genius. Many thanks to yourself and Ash for producing the DM10's. As far as I'm concerned they're a resounding triumph!
cool.png
 
Wouldn't worry about a disclaimer. There'll always be haters of practically every brand.

Wow certainly gone into detail, although without hearing them myself I can't pass judgement, anymore than to say just enjoy the purchase.

Two things that put me off the AVIs: 1) not enough inputs, especially analogue, to justify the change. And 2) Ashley. Clearly he has good business acumen but I dislike his manner...

Meantime, I'll carry on (happily) with my bundles of excitement.

Enjoy the sweet sounds, Steve.
 

steve_1979

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plastic penguin said:
Wow certainly gone into detail, although without hearing them myself I can't pass judgement, anymore than to say just enjoy the purchase.

I think I got a bit carried away with it but it's difficult not to be over enthusiastic when they sound this good.
wink.png


plastic penguin said:
Two things that put me off the AVIs: 1) not enough inputs, especially analogue, to justify the change.

Yeah that does seem to be an issue for quite a few of people. You can always add a seperate DAC and pre-amp such as the Nakamichi AV1 processor or a Marantz NR1504 which would give you plenty of extra inputs.

plastic penguin said:
2) Ashley. Clearly he has good business acumen but I dislike his manner...

I can see why his enthusiasm rubs some people up the wrong way but to be fair if I ran a company that produced products as good as they do I'd probably be ten times worse shouting it from the roof tops to anyone who would listen.

plastic penguin said:
Meantime, I'll carry on (happily) with my bundles of excitement.

Exellent! We all have different tastes and if you're enjoying what you're listening to then that's all that matters at the end of the day. I've got to admit that with the DM10's I do miss having lots of shiny hifi boxes.

plastic penguin said:
Enjoy the sweet sounds, Steve.

Cheers mate. I am. :)
 

chebby

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steve_1979 said:
So I think it'll be best to start this review with a disclaimer to (hopefully) avoid any negative comments from the AVI haters.

I appreciate that different people have differing tastes and not everyone likes the same speakers. So take this review with a pinch of salt as these comments are all 'in my opinion' and 'to my own personal tastes'. Also bare in mind that I'm a self confessed AVI fanboi. This is the third set of AVI speakers that I've owned because to my ears they have exactly the type of sound that I like. Right, with that out of the way lets get on with the review.

Lets start with the big question first. Are the DM10's really as big an improvement over the previous ADM9's as Ashley James says? Absolutely, definitely and without a doubt yes they are as big an improvement as he promised. The overall sound and tonal character is still very similar to the old ADM9's and DM5's but the clarity, level of detail and stereo image has taken several steps up in terms of resolution and definition. They still share the same AVI 'house sound' as the old speakers so any existing AVI owners who are upgrading to the DM10's will, I'm sure, be over the moon when they hear these. Anyone who disliked the old ADM9's probably won't like the new speakers for the same reasons though so if you like your hifi with big boomy bass or a warm and cuddly mid-range and treble then these are probably not going to be the speakers for you. But if like me you want an ultra clear and detailed sound while still being super smooth and easy to listen to then they're ideal.

They have more bass than the ADM9's and DM5's too. Initially for the first day or two I thought that they didn't but now that I've had them for a couple of weeks any initial reservations that I had about them being slightly lean sounding have completely disappeared. After several hours of listening what I originally though was leaness is in fact just ultra high levels of clarity and control. The bass is deep, rock solid, and defined in a way that I've never heard from any other speaker ever before. When playing rave music at high volume they'll kick you in the chest like an angry mule on steroids. They actually have quite a lot of bass but because it's so tight and controlled without even the slightest hint of boom or blurred edges at the beginning and end of notes you may miss it on a brief first listen as I did but live with them for a couple of days and you'll quickly come to realise that this is what bass should be like. Regular passive hifi speakers with regular amplifiers just won't cut it anymore after you've lived with the DM10's for a few days. Taking the 10" AVI subwoofer out of the equation only makes a slight difference to the bass sound but you do lose some of the solid kick in your chest feeling. It's well worth the extra £800 upgrade and although the DM10's are excellent on their own I personally think that you won't be getting the full aural and physical package without it. Also unlike all my previous 2.1 systems I haven't felt the need to fiddle with the subwoofer volume like I used to because it always seems to sound right as it is (I'm using the AVI recommended 60Hz subwoofer crossover frequency but with the volume increased slightly from 12 to 1 o'clock).

The mid-range and treble sound beautiful too. My old AVI DM5's, while slightly limited in dynamic range, were previously the best that I'd ever heard in the mid-range and treble department but in a direct A/B comparison they somehow manage to sound ever so slightly 'thick' next to the DM10's. By normal speaker standards the DM5's are crystal clear and far better than almost everything else out there with a so called 'hifi' tag but the DM10's improve on the clarity not just a little bit but by quite some margin. Initially I thought the DM10's were a bit lean in the upper mid-range but that's just the urber clarity which makes it seem like that until you become accustomed to the sound. Just like with my Senheiser HD700 headphones which on a brief first listen are very similar until your brain has had the chance to recalibrate to this new ultra high level of detail at which point they just become tonally well balanced and very very detailed. Just as Ash says the clarity and detail is comparable to the best headphones available (well the HD700's in may case) and I totally agree with this. Most speakers, irrespective of price, aren't even in the same ballpark as good headphones where clarity and detail are concerned but the DM10's are right up there with some of the best.

The most impressive part of the DM10's is the stereo image. No joke these stereo speakers can really do surround sound better than most 5.1 speaker systems. They have a depth and width that goes far beyond the speakers. In a dark room with the lights turned off the speakers and room totally disappear with the music coming at you from all directions (ok mostly from the front 180 degrees but they still do 3D sound more convincingly that anything else I've ever heard). The sweet spot is big too. Different instrument sounds come from their own pinpoint perfectly defined point of space in the sound stage and they stay pinned there even when you move around. The spaces in between the instruments where there's no sound coming from are perfectly defined and spacious too. No doubt this is due to the very expensive custom made bass drivers and steep 8th order crossover that the DM10's use to allow them to stay in perfect phase throughout the crossover frequencies. Even the Genelec 8260A with their fancy co-axial mid/tweeter driver and clever wave guide doesn't match the razor sharp imaging of the DM10's.

They're well built with good looking high quality veneers but overall visually they're nothing all that special being just square boxes. At first I wasn't particularly taken with the width and size of them but I have to admit that they've grown on me over the past two weeks. I still think that the smaller and better proportioned DM5's look nicer though. One thing that I don't like is the amount of wires coming out of the back of them. Once my bank balance has recovered from the DM10 purchase I'm going to get some custom made speaker stands built to hide all those horrible wires.

Being remote controlled with a built in DAC and pre-amp is a nice touch and makes the DM10's a doddle to setup and use. There's no volume display though which is a shame but I can honestly say that I haven't missed it much as expected either so that's less of an issue than I thought it would be. As many of you already know I have a Nakamichi AV1 processor which I could use for DAC and pre-amp duties which would give me a display for the volume and would also allow me to adjust the subwoofer using the remote control but so far I haven't felt the need for it and I'm perfectly happy with the simple setup of a PC connected straight to the DM10's via a digital optical cable.

Last year I said it'd be great if a speaker system could combine the clarity of my HD700 headphones with the balls and punch of my Neutron Five 2.1 system and Ash said the DM5's would do this. Well, whilst the DM5's are still outstanding speakers they don't quite manage live up to that promise but these DM10's do. Even when pushed to silly loud ear drum destroying volume levels they still sound perfectly clear and unstressed. I used to think that a regular sub 100 watt hifi amplifier would have enough power but once you've heard speakers that sound this smooth and clear at any volume you quickly realise that it's not even close. Even at more normal volume levels this huge dynamic range gives the speakers an effortless feel that's hard to find with lesser powered systems. I turn these DM10 up as loud as I dare and they just seem to sit there smirking at me saying "Is that all you've got? Well I'm not even breaking a sweat."

I take my hat of to Martin Grindrod (the designer at AVI). That guy is an electronics and acoustics engineering genius. Many thanks to yourself and Ash for producing the DM10's. As far as I'm concerned they're a resounding triumph!

Good then?
 

steve_1979

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I thought that this may be of interest to a few of you. :)

This is a quote from the other forum by AlaamatKZ (who many of you probably remember as being a regular here but only posts occasionally now) comparing his new DM10's to his ATC SCM50A three-way active floorstanders which he uses for his main system speakers.

AlaamtaKZ said:
Clarity - comparable, slightly better on the DM10s
Imaging - significantly better on the DM10s
Dynamic range - not a fair comparison due to size difference, ATCs much higher
Bass quality - similar (excellent definition)
Bass quantity - not a fair comparison due to size difference. Comparable if used with sub.
 
steve_1979 said:
I thought that this may be of interest to a few of you. :)

This is a quote from the other forum by AlaamatKZ (who many of you probably remember as being a regular here but only posts occasionally now) comparing his new DM10's to his ATC SCM50A three-way active floorstanders which he uses for his main system speakers.

AlaamtaKZ said:
Clarity - comparable, slightly better on the DM10sImaging - significantly better on the DM10sDynamic range - not a fair comparison due to size difference, ATCs much higherBass quality - similar (excellent definition)Bass quantity - not a fair comparison due to size difference. Comparable if used with sub.

Steve, appreciate giving feedback on the DM10s, so I'll play devil's advocate.

Point One: What relevance has this to do with people who enjoy their all-analogue set-up with a standard passive kit?

Point Two: How many times has AVI upgraded their actives since 2008?

Point Three: I'm not sure your actives would have the flexibilty in terms of source matching (although I could be way off the mark). Not saying for one moment your actives aren't capable but... to give an example, I have a £1200 CDP and a £200 black spinny thing. The cheapo TT gives me wonderful payback on any music I care to play. Again, the CDP is technically superior over my bargain bucket turntable but the overall whole is equilibrium personified.

Point Four: Principles. I couldn't buy any product from a owner or manager of any company I didn't believe in. On a couple of occasions I've read his posts (and Max), they really laid into Andrew; also accusing him of such bias towards Naim. How's that different from anyone else? IMO that's the pot calling the kettle black.

I can't understand why the 'active' Fuhrer wants a seize (them and us) mentality. Then in an earlier post you state he has "enthusisam". Good. I like enthusism but hate unscrupulous tactics.

Personally I'm always genuinely chuffed when anyone buys and is pleased with a new purchase, regardless of whether it's passive or active set-up.

This is not a personal 'pop' at you, Steve. But I'll always respect anyone's choice, even if it isn't quite my 'bag'.
 

steve_1979

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plastic penguin said:
Steve, appreciate giving feedback on the DM10s, so I'll play devil's advocate.

Point One: What relevance has this to do with people who enjoy their all-analogue set-up with a standard passive kit?

None. If people are happy with what they've got be it digital, analogue, active or passive then that's great. They're all just different ways of listening to music which is what it's all about at the end of the day. Personally I think that better fidelity can enhance that enjoyment but it's still largely irrelevant so long as the music is good and the listener is happy with how it sounds to them.

plastic penguin said:
Point Two: How many times has AVI upgraded their actives since 2008?

I've lost count. About half a dosen or so I think.

plastic penguin said:
Point Three: I'm not sure your actives would have the flexibilty in terms of source matching (although I could be way off the mark). Not saying for one moment your actives aren't capable but... to give an example, I have a £1200 CDP and a £200 black spinny thing. The cheapo TT gives me wonderful payback on any music I care to play. Again, the CDP is technically superior over my bargain bucket turntable but the overall whole is equilibrium personified.espect anyone's choice, even if it isn't quite my 'bag'.

I'll be the first to admit that the ADM9's / DM10's aren't for everyone. They're not perfect as they do have limited inputs, no display and are very 'wirery' which will put many people off straight away. I expect that most would be amazed by the fidelity, stereo imaging and dynamic range of the DM10's but there are probably many others who would prefer to have a more pronounced bass or a warmer upper mid-range and treble even if it means losing some of that clarity. We all have different tastes and I respect that.

The same goes for digital and vinyl. There are fans of both for various reasons and I respect that too. Personally I perfer digital but I still like vinyl and would like a Technics 1210 some day.

plastic penguin said:
Point Four: Principles. I couldn't buy any product from a owner or manager of any company I didn't believe in. On a couple of occasions I've read his posts (and Max), they really laid into Andrew; also accusing him of such bias towards Naim. How's that different from anyone else? IMO that's the pot calling the kettle black.

I can't understand why the 'active' Fuhrer wants a seize (them and us) mentality. Then in an earlier post you state he has "enthusisam". Good. I like enthusism but hate unscrupulous tactics.

I get where you're coming from. It's a fair point which I agree with to varying degrees especially with any 'us and them' mentality that occurs. Personally I can't be bothered with that type of politics whether it's on a hifi forum or elsewhere. Lifes too short. Hifi forums should be a place to share information, experiences and for cracking a few jokes IMO.

Whenever buying something I also separate the product from the person making it. If it's a good product then it's a good product irrelevant of where it comes from or who makes it. There are a lot of musicians who I dislike as a person but I like their music so I buy their CD's anyway. I respect your principles if you feel differently though.

plastic penguin said:
Personally I'm always genuinely chuffed when anyone buys and is pleased with a new hifi purchase, regardless of whether it's passive or active set-up.

This is not a personal 'pop' at you, Steve. But I'll always respect anyone's choice, even if it isn't quite my 'bag'.

It's wasn't taken as a 'pop' (the thought had never even crossed my mind). You're always very friendly.

Like you I'm always geuinely chuffed to read about other people who are happy with their purchases and what they think about them. Even though the traditional hifi separates thing isn't for me I still enjoy reading about what speakers/amps/CD players other people are combining and how they sound. Even the ones who buy record players and Naim kit (sorry I couldn't resist ;) ).
 

steve_1979

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plastic penguin said:
Point Three: I'm not sure your actives would have the flexibilty in terms of source matching (although I could be way off the mark) ...

I can't edit a post on this forum but I forgot to say that there's no issue with using CD players and record players with the ADM9's / DM10's. There are many people who do and are happy with the results.
 
Fair enough.

I know you've always been proud of how cost effective the AVIs are, and they do seem to be good value.

However, the reason why I asked how many times they've upgraded since 2008, there's a very good reason for asking.

The Leema Pulse MKI of mine first came out in 2008, and this was only upgraded once to the (oddly) MKIII. Where MKII went I've no idea. After that they replaced the Pulse with the Elements range of amps. But if you calculate how much you've spent just on the new models, excluding the subs, and I think my kit is better value.

Leema £750 brand new (manufactuer sealed). Reduced from £1250.

PMC TB2i £750 ex-dem from high street dealer. Reduced from around £1300.

I've had the Leema since 2010 and the PMCs since 2013.

Going back Ashley: He is clever because he upgrades about every 2 years and he knows most of loyal supporters will buy the new model without hesitation.

Sorry, not trying to cause agg but just looking at the whole comparison thing from a different angle.
 

steve_1979

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It is indeed clever to introduce a new speaker model every year or so although I don't think that this is actually a deliberate business model. I think that Martin just continously strives to keep on improving on what they already have and is always trying out new ideas. There have been several threads on the AVI forum showing what new developments he's currently working on. Half the time when the new ideas are tried and tested and don't live upto expectations they're binned and they try something else. Whenever he does finds a way of improving the speakers they're able to release it as new model almost straight away thanks to the manufacturing flexibility afforded by being such a small company.

I have often wondered if the clever thing to do from a customer point of view would be to buy secondhand and then keep upgrading to whatever the precursory model is and always stay just one step behind of the development cycle. It would have saved a fortune and you'd always have an 'almost new' model version. However AVI are now looking to gradually wind down over then next few years and start taking it easy. Ash says it's very likely that the DM10's will be the last new model they ever do. Although if I were a betting man I wouldn't put money on that... Ash did mention a couple of months ago something about them wanting to ask Sinar Baja to design a new tweeter for them to see they can improve on the current one. I hope they do as I'd be unwilling to change speakers but if in a year or two it becomes possible to upgrade them with a new tweeter for £50 or so I'd give it a go.
 
What I find odd is that AVI now only produce 1 model. Three or four years ago they had the ADM40 floorstanders. So any new upgrade needs to be a good to keep his small but loyal following. I can't think of any other company that only has one model in production. It's a real risky policy, putting all your eggs in one basket.

I remember hearing the Laboratory series amp back in the early naughties. I was fairly impressed at the time. Think the Record Spot currently has Lab series CDP.

Anyway, I've spouted enough. I'll leave you alone for the foreseeable. *wink*
 

steve_1979

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plastic penguin said:
... But if you calculate how much you've spent just on the new models, excluding the subs, and I think my kit is better value. ...

Hmm an interesting question.

AVI Neutron Five 2.1 system bought about four years ago for £900 (down from £1300 in a sale). I sold these last year for £550 so a £350 loss there.

Almost brand new AVI DM5 speakers bought second hand from Maxflinn last year for £520 (down from £700 new). I still have these and will put them into tempory use as rear surround sound speakers with the DM10's for a bit until I move house in a couple of years time at which point I'll probably use them as a second hifi system with the Nakamichi AV1 processor or by just simply plugging them into the headphone output on a TV.

This year I've made my final purchase of the AVI DM10 (£1500) and AVI subwoofer (£800) bought new for a total of £2300.

So all in the total price that I've paid is £3170 and I own two seperate hifi systems (the DM10 2.1 system and the DM5's on their own). Not cheap but still outstanding value for the quality offered.

I've only once taken a loss of £350 by selling my old Neutron speakers second hand but that's been offset by the £180 I saved by buying the DM5 second hand so really I've only lost £170 over the last four years and each step has been a pretty big upgrade over what I previously owned. I'm happy with that. :D
 

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plastic penguin said:
What I find odd is that AVI now only produce 1 model. Three or four years ago they had the ADM40 floorstanders. So any new upgrade needs to be a good to keep his small but loyal following. I can't think of any other company that only has one model in production. It's a real risky policy, putting all your eggs in one basket.

They currently have three products available. The DM10, the DM5 and the 10" subwoofer. They're only being built in limited batches though so depending on which product you want you may have a wait for a few months for it to become available.

Don't quote me on this as I just going from memory based on what I read on the AVI forum but I think that they're just coming to the end of the current DM10 batch now. Next will be a DM5 batch which I think might be expected next month. Then after that in a couple more months time it'll be some subwoofers.

plastic penguin said:
Anyway, I've spouted enough. I'll leave you alone for the foreseeable. *wink*

Awww. :(

I was enjoying that. :)
 

record_spot

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plastic penguin said:
I remember hearing the Laboratory series amp back in the early naughties. I was fairly impressed at the time. Think the Record Spot currently has Lab series CDP

He does! I bought it off a chap up in Aberdeen a couple of years ago, or maybe three, for £300. Near mint nick, bar a slightly wobbly main power switch (at the rear) and which I have since had replaced. I always loved the simplcity and very clean design of the Lab Series gear and the amp I still lust after, though its prices are too high for me and I love my 818 anyway.

The version of the CD player I have is a late edition model, twin Wolfson WM8740 DACs and tank like build. I'd be hard pressed tp part with it and even though I'd probably recoup my money, with maybe a little on top, it's staying. The Cambridge 752BD universal player is just as good however, has the same DAC chip and plays tha additional formats I use at home too.

But the Lab Series CD Player was/is a lovely piece. I'd bet they'd do well if they brought another one out now. Hell, if DCS can bring out a £70,000 unit, I'm pretty damn sure the demand could be there.
 

BillDay66

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What's going on here, a sensible, polite discussion of AVI speakers ? - am I in the right place?!

I'd like to echo Steve's thoughts on the 10s, plus the 9RS are still a stonkingly good speaker so the idea of buying second hand to stay one step behind developments is not a bad one at all. I couldn't imagine going back to a traditional set up having got used to them now - I'm absolutely not knocking anyone who does though, I actually miss the look of black boxes, a display and a nice tactile remote (this is the AVI weak link IMO) I'm even considering a second hand TT to give me something to fiddle with! If HiFi as your hobby means a bit more to you than 'just' listening to music reproduced accuratley then DM10s are probably not for you as they are a bit boring in that respect

It's a shame that AJ does seem to ruffle feathers here and elsewhere, because I believe with the 'right' marketing, they could potentially sell a lot more, then again maybe they don't really want to?

As Steve said he is 'enthusiastic' also doesn't suffer fools well and had his filter removed many years ago! Makes good speakers though *biggrin*
 

The_Lhc

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Some time ago when I briefly had a nose at AVI I'm pretty sure I remember one of the advantages of them being put about by supporters was that they were so good you'd never need to upgrade again, that doesn't seem to tally with a company releasing a new model almost every year. That may not have been Ashley that said it though.
 

johngw

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The_Lhc said:
Some time ago when I briefly had a nose at AVI I'm pretty sure I remember one of the advantages of them being put about by supporters was that they were so good you'd never need to upgrade again, that doesn't seem to tally with a company releasing a new model almost every year. That may not have been Ashley that said it though.

Yes I do think this was one of the themes for a while... Probably around the same time as the obsession with wattage and the superiority of classic Class AB amp designs vs over-complicated and underpowered Class D. Had to abandon that too after someone actually took the ADMs apart, measured them up and published the real specs on YouTube. These days they use Class D amps (perhaps not in DM10s though..?) and emphasise phase issues instead (or rather the lack of).

Steve, glad you like them though. That is what counts irrespective of what anyone may think about AVi's marketing style or otherwise. You make reference to Genelec 8260A - have you compared these to the DM10s side by side?
 

steve_1979

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The_Lhc said:
Some time ago when I briefly had a nose at AVI I'm pretty sure I remember one of the advantages of them being put about by supporters was that they were so good you'd never need to upgrade again, that doesn't seem to tally with a company releasing a new model almost every year. That may not have been Ashley that said it though.

I've never really bought into the "you'll never need to upgrade" thing where AVI or (any other active speakers) are concerned. New and improved models are always coming out and many audiophiles tend to have some kind of OCD tendencies where they have to have the best at all cost.

Anyway as far as Ash is concerned he always seems to be very fair and put his customers needs first. He's said on several occassions that people don't need to upgrade to the newest model. Especially if they haven't heard the newer version because they'll still be happy with the speakers they already have but that once they've heard the newer improved ones they'll then realise that they are infact better.* I've also read several times where he's told people not to buy a subwoofer until they've heard the ADM9/DM10's first because they may find that they don't need it or that the cheaper DM5's maybe more suitable for there needs and not to spend the extra money on the larger ADM9's or DM10's.

* Previously it's only been relatively small incremental improvements with the various versions of the ADM9's but with the new DM10's the improvement is considerably bigger than any other that have come before. Hence the sudden rush of ADM9 owners upgrading to DM10's at the moment.
 

steve_1979

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johngw said:
... Steve, glad you like them though. That is what counts irrespective of what anyone may think about AVi's marketing style or otherwise. You make reference to Genelec 8260A - have you compared these to the DM10s side by side?

Cheers. :)

No I haven't compared them side by side so not really a fair comparison as I know full well how unreliable our auditory memory can be (I originally misjudged the quality of the DM10's against the DM5's until I did a proper A/B comparison. Clicky

From memory though I'd say that I'm pretty certain that the DM10's image better than the Genelec 8260A or anything else that I've ever heard.
 

johngw

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steve_1979 said:
johngw said:
... Steve, glad you like them though. That is what counts irrespective of what anyone may think about AVi's marketing style or otherwise. You make reference to Genelec 8260A - have you compared these to the DM10s side by side?

Cheers. :)

No I haven't compared them side by side so not really a fair comparison as I know full well how unreliable our auditory memory can be (I originally misjudged the quality of the DM10's against the DM5's until I did a proper A/B comparison. Clicky

From memory though I'd say that I'm pretty certain that the DM10's image better than the Genelec 8260A or anything else that I've ever heard.

Did you listen to them in the same room?

It's quite some claim given those (and lesser) Genelecs are common in high-end studios and the review in SoS even makes very specific mentioning of the "absolute rock solidity of the phantom image".

Not to say they are necessarily the Genelecs that image the best - those are 3-ways so presumably a more complex design. Notwithstanding the fact they also do room correction, so some processing involved.
 

steve_1979

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johngw said:
Did you listen to them in the same room?

No it was in a shop some time ago. The reason I mentioned the Genelecs is because along with the AVI DM5's they were the best imaging speakers that I've heard.

The Genelec DSP seemed good too. Subtle but effective.
 

ouijaboy

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You guys hit the nail on the head when discussing the AVIs.

I got screwed by one of the salesmen who sold me a pair of the ADM9RSs after asking him if AVI was coming out with any new or updated versions of the ADM9RSs. He looked me in the eye and replied "no". I even conversed with that Ashley guy via the internet and he told me the same thing, that AVI was not coming out with any new speakers as well. It's true what they say about the audio industry, all liars, deceivers, cheats and thieves. Next time around I will be looking for a nice pair of used Meridians within my budget.......
 
Your post confuses me.

1) Which salesman? Which shop? I thought AVI speakers are only sold online.

2) When did this happen? How did you contact "that Ashley guy"?

3) Why did you get screwed? They're speakers. Newer versions don't make existing ones obsolete.
 

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