AVI ADM woofer power amp rated @ 250W. BS or not?

[Phileas]

Since they make such an issue of science/technical measurements, then they should be more forthcoming with their own measurements.

I think what they would claim (IMHO) is that they apply well established engineering principles and measurement techniques to the design and testing of their products, as should all audio manufacturers. The essential point being that they don't pander to audiophoolishness.

I think publishing full (and honest) details of measurements of loudspeakers would be daft and pointless. Pointless because almost no potential purchaser would no what to make of them and daft because no one else publishes honest measurements.

Benchmark doesn't make loudspeakers and there are probably fewer pitfalls involved in publishing specs for DAC/headphone amps because, lets face it, nowadays it shouldn't be difficult to make such a device with exemplary measurements.

 

[John Duncan]

I think what they would claim (IMHO) is that they apply well established engineering principles and measurement techniques to the design and testing of their products, as should all audio manufacturers. The essential point being that they don't pander to audiophoolishness.

I think publishing full (and honest) details of measurements of loudspeakers would be daft and pointless. Pointless because almost no potential purchaser would no what to make of them and daft because no one else publishes honest measurements.

So basically, we wouldn't understand them so what's the point?

BS or not?

250w RMS and 500w peak into 5.1 ohms, btw.

 

[lindsayt]

Well Behringer actives have 1000W so I don't think that 250W is unrealistic, people have heard AVI at the NEC and they were very loud.

Is that class D amplification for the Behringers? The AVI's use class AB - which has very different requirements in terms of component size.

The genuine 250 to 325 watt solid state class AB amps that I've seen have been monster amps. Large power supply transformers, large amount or large sized power caps, a lot of heat sinking, cooling fans, 10 to 14 transistors per channel in the output section.

 

[Craig M.]

Are the AVI figures RMS?

A while ago, for reasons that escape me now, I spent quite a fair bit of time researching published specs for amplifiers. My conclusions at the end of it were that they are absolutely ****ing useless in the main. They're all using different ways of measuring, giving you figures under different conditions, and hardly any of it relates to useful, real-world, music listening. RMS measurements fall into the useless category, unless you're listening to 1khz sine waves. At a guess, I'd also say it's not worth trying to compare an active amp to something in a traditional hifi amp, the active only has to provide its power under a very specific condition - the driver it's attached to.

 

[Phileas]

So basically, we wouldn't understand them so what's the point?

Well, would you?

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Since they make such an issue of science/technical measurements, then they should be more forthcoming with their own measurements.

I think what they would claim (IMHO) is that they apply well established engineering principles and measurement techniques to the design and testing of their products, as should all audio manufacturers. The essential point being that they don't pander to audiophoolishness.

I think publishing full (and honest) details of measurements of loudspeakers would be daft and pointless. Pointless because almost no potential purchaser would no what to make of them and daft because no one else publishes honest measurements.

Benchmark doesn't make loudspeakers and there are probably fewer pitfalls involved in publishing specs for DAC/headphone amps because, lets face it, nowadays it shouldn't be difficult to make such a device with exemplary measurements.

Priceless! Haven't had a decent laugh for a while!

Come on, man, who are you trying to kid?? Personally I'd trust a company that did publish honest figures, as opposed to others (I'm assuming you include AVI in these) who don't.

It's very easy to measure the output of an amp. It's been done since the year dot.

 

[John Duncan]

So basically, we wouldn't understand them so what's the point?

Well, would you?

Yes, probably. I'm tertiary qualified in a scientific discipline, you know...

 

[char_lotte]

For crying out loud......we are not all cretins. It is a spec for an amplifier , nothing more nothing less.

 

[lindsayt]

My understanding is that two amps delivering 100 watts actively into 2 way speakers would give about the same volume as a single amp delivering 200 watts into the same speakers passively - assuming a signal that is spread throughout frequency spectrum. This is all down to piling a high frequency transient on top of a low frequency transient in a passive system versus seperating them out in an active system.

In other words, by going active we only need about half as much power as going passive for the same volume.

 

[relocated]

Are the AVI figures RMS?

A while ago, for reasons that escape me now, I spent quite a fair bit of time researching published specs for amplifiers. My conclusions at the end of it were that they are absolutely ****ing useless in the main. They're all using different ways of measuring, giving you figures under different conditions, and hardly any of it relates to useful, real-world, music listening. RMS measurements fall into the useless category, unless you're listening to 1khz sine waves. At a guess, I'd also say it's not worth trying to compare an active amp to something in a traditional hifi amp, the active only has to provide its power under a very specific condition - the driver it's attached to.

That would be the driver that the amp was specifically built to match and control.

 

[John Duncan]

Are the AVI figures RMS?

A while ago, for reasons that escape me now, I spent quite a fair bit of time researching published specs for amplifiers. My conclusions at the end of it were that they are absolutely ****ing useless in the main. They're all using different ways of measuring, giving you figures under different conditions, and hardly any of it relates to useful, real-world, music listening. RMS measurements fall into the useless category, unless you're listening to 1khz sine waves. At a guess, I'd also say it's not worth trying to compare an active amp to something in a traditional hifi amp, the active only has to provide its power under a very specific condition - the driver it's attached to.

That would be the driver that the amp was specifically built to match and control.

Should be even easier to measure then?

 

[steve_1979]

I have no idea about the ADM amplifiers but I can comment on the 100wpc amplifiers that are built into my AVI Neutron system.

A few weeks ago I tried my Neutron Five speakers with a few regular stereo HiFi amplifiers and an AV reciever. The HiFi amplifiers which all had a lower power rating did seem to have a bit less headroom and started clipping at slightly lower volume levels than when using the AVI amplifier. But the AV receiver which was rated at 100wpc did seem to have the same amount of headroom as the AVI amplifier and it started clipping at a similar volume level.

The 100wpc power rating claim for the AVI Neutron Five 2.1 system seems to be genuine IME.

 

[Phileas]

So basically, we wouldn't understand them so what's the point?

Well, would you?

Yes, probably. I'm tertiary qualified in a scientific discipline, you know...

I'm sure many of us are...

I was actually referring to measurements of the loudspeaker output. I forgot this particular anti-AVI thread was all about the amps - there are so many of them I tend to lose track.

I do find it amusing that so many people seem to think they understand amp/speaker design so well that they feel qualified to debate its finer points on a public forum.

 

[char_lotte]

The condescension is strong...

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Yes, probably. I'm tertiary qualified in a scientific discipline, you know...

I'm sure many of us are...

I was actually referring to measurements of the loudspeaker output. I forgot this particular anti-AVI thread was all about the amps - there are so many of them I tend to lose track.

I do find it amusing that so many people seem to think they understand amp/speaker design so well that they feel qualified to debate its finer points on a public forum.

[/quote]And you have built how many speakers?

 

[Phileas]

Lemon

Your quoting is all over the place.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Phileas, At least it isn't my logic...

joke, by the way, like someone said, the only person you have the right to laugh at is yourself :cheers:

 

[John Duncan]

So basically, we wouldn't understand them so what's the point?

Well, would you?

Yes, probably. I'm tertiary qualified in a scientific discipline, you know...

I'm sure many of us are...

I was actually referring to measurements of the loudspeaker output. I forgot this particular anti-AVI thread was all about the amps - there are so many of them I tend to lose track.

I do find it amusing that so many people seem to think they understand amp/speaker design so well that they feel qualified to debate its finer points on a public forum.

I'm not debating loudspeaker design (further, don't think asking whether a quoted figure is rms or peak constitutes 'debate'). I'm debating whether a manufacturer who sets store on measurement might actually publish some measurements...

 

[relocated]

So basically, we wouldn't understand them so what's the point?

Well, would you?

Yes, probably. you know...

So John, "I'm tertiary qualified in a scientific discipline," yet you would only "probably" understand the figures. I do love this forum, more laughs than in a Fawlty Towers box-set.

:clap:

 

[andyjm]

A useful comparison of amplifier performance is to measure power at a given level of distortion into a known load. While it doesn't capture every nuance of amplifier performance, it is a good yardstick.

The standard approach in engineering circles is to measure RMS power into an 8ohm load at 0.1% THD for a 1KHz sine wave.

Measurements for Marketing purposes are of course different.

 

[relocated]

I think what they would claim (IMHO) is that they apply well established engineering principles and measurement techniques to the design and testing of their products, as should all audio manufacturers. The essential point being that they don't pander to audiophoolishness.

I think publishing full (and honest) details of measurements of loudspeakers would be daft and pointless. Pointless because almost no potential purchaser would no what to make of them and daft because no one else publishes honest measurements.

So basically, we wouldn't understand them so what's the point?

BS or not?

250w RMS and 500w peak into 5.1 ohms, btw.

What a strange irony. The person who first put together, AVI, 250W bass amplifier and BS in a post is the person who produces the figures to confirm what is being doubted in the first place.

:rofl: You guys.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

You spammer :cheer: :clap: :wave:

 

[relocated]

relocated or overdose,

Where is the "easily retrievable answer"? No-one on any other forum has managed to find it, even when asking AVI directly. In fact, no-one has found out whether the quoted figure is continuous or peak. Can you provide the info?

Speaking only for myself. What would be the point of providing you with the information? You almost certainly wouldn't believe what you were told and I have much better things to do with my time.

:wave:

 

[John Duncan]

So basically, we wouldn't understand them so what's the point?

Well, would you?

Yes, probably. you know...

So John, "I'm tertiary qualified in a scientific discipline," yet you would only "probably" understand the figures. I do love this forum, more laughs than in a Fawlty Towers box-set.

:clap:

Depends what the figures say, I suppose. Won't know until I see them. I prefer not to be absolutist in these things.

 

[John Duncan]

relocated or overdose,

Where is the "easily retrievable answer"? No-one on any other forum has managed to find it, even when asking AVI directly. In fact, no-one has found out whether the quoted figure is continuous or peak. Can you provide the info?

Speaking only for myself. What would be the point of providing you with the information? You almost certainly wouldn't believe what you were told and I have much better things to do with my time.

:wave:

I think that's what AVI said.