AT440MLB

[Deleted member 108165]

I was getting rather a lot of sibilance with the MP300, (I own too many “hot” pop-recordings), so after some lengthy trawling on the net to find a cure the recommendations were very much in favour of a fine-line stylus.

AT440MLB to the rescue…. Or is it?

Pros: A remarkable cartridge for the price, (c£130). It is recommended that the retaining nuts should be on top of the arm with the screws being inserted from the base, otherwise stylus change cannot be performed. This was not the case on my arm as with the screws fitted from above the stylus can still be removed and refitted easily. Doddle to set-up with the nice shiny cantilever – shines like a beacon under led light. Beautifully silent in operation and extracts an enormous amount of fine detail from the grooves. I’ve never heard a cart track a groove so well! Sibilance issues have now all but disappeared.

Cons: Initial reaction - where’s all the bass gone? (now filling-out nicely after 10 hours use). Mid-range is sadly nowhere near as prominent or as rosy as the MP300. The biggest problem for me with this cart is that, unfortunately, it is too damned bright - gives me a headache after an hour! It may be a resonance mis-match with my tonearm or just the nature of the cart. I’m hoping that things will change after the 30-hour fettling period but that hasn’t stopped me from fishing around for an MP500 stylus.

I did try the 2M Black again but that was a no-go, still too forward for my liking and it must be fed with perfect vinyl to avoid noise issues.

 

[bigfish786]

first thing i would try is dial a bit more weight onto the cart, not much, but a little more might give you a touch more bass and hopefully mellow the top end a bit.

another possibility would be to just budge your speakers a little further toward the back wall, this can help calm treble, and increase bass.

both suggestions cost nothing to try. and i have found both successful when setting my system up after i've made changes.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

It's a bit more expensive but the at-150mlx isn't meant to be quite as bright as some of their other mm offerings,although discontinued they can still be found.

 

[nopiano]

I'm not too surprised, as ATs I always think of in terms of detail rather than smoothness - which is what the Nags are better for. I'm a bit rusty on this, but it could be tamed with some extra capacitance loading, but you'd need to do a bit of homework, and it might require gear out of proportion in cost terms, with the cartridge.

I'd echo the suggestion about setting tracking weight towards the top end, and bear in mind this will change the tracking angle too. Running in is debateable, but you might get acclimatised, and the cartridge may mellow a bit - either way that's what you seek!

Good luck!

 

[friendly_ghost]

Their might also be a small mismatch in expectations. After all you are comparing a 700 euro cart to a 200 euro one...
Right now in Belgium the AT-150 is about the same in price as the Nag MP-200, so take that into your expectations.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Cheers for all the tips guys *good* Can't do much with the speakers as they are already only 4" off the rear wall *shok* and sound amazing as long as I don't crank the volume dial too much. I'm not a believer in break-in periods either but the bass has definitely improved over the last 10 hours and is now roughly on par with the Nag, (when I first fitted it it was very anaemic indeed). It's the mids that are lacking, compared to the Nag, but I must say that channel separation is simply superb as is the sibilance issue. I have an amp with tone controls so I might have a play with these.

I always use a test record to set-up my carts and on fitting the AT the resonant frequency of the cart/arm had dropped from around 9Hz for the Nag to 7Hz for the AT so I knew I was heading into bright territory. Additional loading is probably the way forward but then again I think I'm suffering withdrawal symptoms from that beautiful Nagaoka richness. Isn't it amazing how a brand of cart/stylus can change the presentation of music; love turntables for this very reason - they are so easily tweakable!

Just before I left for work this morning I emailed my Japanese friend for a price on the JN-P500 stylus, got home this evening and the price was too appealing to resist, (compared to UK prices). I now have about 3 weeks to play with the AT before the Nag arrives. Hell, if I can't get it to work then I'll fit it on the Pioneer when I eventually move it on.

A fool and their money........ you know the rest.... but I like a bit of trial and error me *biggrin*

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Their might also be a small mismatch in expectations. After all you are comparing a 700 euro cart to a 200 euro one...Right now in Belgium the AT-150 is about the same in price as the Nag MP-200, so take that into your expectations.

Yes and no really as I knew I would have give some ground with a retrograde step from the Nagaoka. In certain respects it has worked - I cannot fault the AT on the sibilance aspect, its channel separation and detail retrieval is first class. Maybe on a different arm, or with different loading, this would be a killer cartridge and all at a bargain price. What this has given me is experience as I now know that I need a fine-line stylus, the AT at the time was the cheapest fine-line I could find.

 

[Al ears]

Their might also be a small mismatch in expectations. After all you are comparing a 700 euro cart to a 200 euro one...Right now in Belgium the AT-150 is about the same in price as the Nag MP-200, so take that into your expectations.

Yes and no really as I knew I would have give some ground with a retrograde step from the Nagaoka. In certain respects it has worked - I cannot fault the AT on the sibilance aspect, its channel separation and detail retrieval is first class. Maybe on a different arm, or with different loading, this would be a killer cartridge and all at a bargain price. What this has given me is experience as I now know that I need a fine-line stylus, the AT at the time was the cheapest fine-line I could find.

I think now you might understand the problems with recommending cartridges to people. Too many variables and different sonic requirements. Take time and play with set-up though you might find something that suits the AT. I would certainly use a downforce towards top end of range.

 

[stevebrock]

Cartridge matching is such an art - like Al says just too many variables

if your happy with something then don't change

I don't find my AT33 PTG too bright whatsoever in my system - it's smooth detailed and lovely taut bass - the other parts of my system have an influence I am sure - it's just an expensive game this cartridge matching malarkey

occasionally I swap over to my Nagaoka MP500........better ?? NO just different..... IMO the Nagaoka tracks better than than the AT on some of my favourite records. It would be very hard to choose between the 2

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I think now you might understand the problems with recommending cartridges to people. Too many variables and different sonic requirements. Take time and play with set-up though you might find something that suits the AT. I would certainly use a downforce towards top end of range.

Fair point, Al, but it was this forum that initially piqued my interest in Nagaoka. If I hadn't read about the Nagoaka on here then I would have probably remained an oblivious Ortofon fanboy. Same with the AT, well worth a stab at the price. It's a learning curve but well worth the time and effort *smile*. Problem is that I've now become a Nagaoka fanboy *biggrin*

 

[Al ears]

I think now you might understand the problems with recommending cartridges to people. Too many variables and different sonic requirements. Take time and play with set-up though you might find something that suits the AT. I would certainly use a downforce towards top end of range.

Fair point, Al, but it was this forum that initially piqued my interest in Nagaoka. If I hadn't read about the Nagoaka on here then I would have probably remained an oblivious Ortofon fanboy. Same with the AT, well worth a stab at the price. It's a learning curve but well worth the time and effort *smile*. Problem is that I've now become a Nagaoka fanboy *biggrin*

Well at least you're cheap Buy direct from Japan and don't get involved in the dark-side that is moving coil and you'll be safe. ;-)

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Well the MP500 stylus arrived and I'm pleased to say that the rosy mids are back and will probably continue to improve over the next 30 hours, just as the MP300 did.

However, after settling-in the AT440 proved to be one heck of a cartridge for the price, its detail retrievel is astonishing... first class. Also, surprisingly, its tracking ability is superior to that of the MP500.

Bearing in mind the price difference between these two styli the outcome isn't the vaste chasm of difference one would expect, it all depends on personal preferences of sound signature. They both offer a superbly analytical reproduction but Nagaoka succeeds with a warmer, more holographic, and cohesive presentation.

Still a Nagoaka fan but those AT's are special too.

 

[Al ears]

Well the MP500 stylus arrived and I'm pleased to say that the rosy mids are back and will probably continue to improve over the next 30 hours, just as the MP300 did.

However, after settling-in the AT440 proved to be one heck of a cartridge for the price, its detail retrievel is astonishing... first class. Also, surprisingly, its tracking ability is superior to that of the MP500.

Bearing in mind the price difference between these two styli the outcome isn't the vaste chasm of difference one would expect, it all depends on personal preferences of sound signature. They both offer a superbly analytical reproduction but Nagaoka succeeds with a warmer, more holographic, and cohesive presentation.

Still a Nagoaka fan but those AT's are special too.

As I have said, and you have found out, it is one of the best all-rounders for the money. Again trying to compare a cartridge at £125 with one that would cost £675 if purchased here in UK is a tad pointless.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Pointless? Nowt wrong with the comparison from my viewpoint. Sometimes a retrograde departure back down the food-chain can bring unexpected surprises; without expectation bias playing a role, (except to the detriment of the cheaper cartridge). So this info may help someone out there somewhere.

It's early days for the MP500 but as I said in my previous post the yawning chasm of performance one would expect between these cartridges just isn't there; to my cloth ears it is smaller than anticipated. Admittedly the Nagaoka needs to get some hours on it before it really starts to sing but the AT isn't £500 worse than the Nagaoka; add to this the fact that it's better tracker too. As you've said "a good all-rounder for the money", but as I said previously "possibly a killer cartridge in the right system".

 

[Al ears]

Pointless? Nowt wrong with the comparison from my viewpoint. Sometimes a retrograde departure back down the food-chain can bring unexpected surprises; without expectation bias playing a role, (except to the detriment of the cheaper cartridge). So this info may help someone out there somewhere.

It's early days for the MP500 but as I said in my previous post the yawning chasm of performance one would expect between these cartridges just isn't there; to my cloth ears it is smaller than anticipated. Admittedly the Nagaoka needs to get some hours on it before it really starts to sing but the AT isn't £500 worse than the Nagaoka; add to this the fact that it's better tracker too. As you've said "a good all-rounder for the money", but as I said previously "possibly a killer cartridge in the right system".

Apologies, perhaps 'pointless' was a bit harsh. All information / opinion is good.

What I meant is that most punters would be looking to spend a certain amount on a cartridge and this probably wouldn't be in a price range that covered both of these cartridges but rather would be centred around one or the other..

Glad we agree on the qualities of the 440 making it hard to beat at that price.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

On first read it did sting a bit *shok* But no need for apologies as you're a good guy *good*

 

[Al ears]

On first read it did sting a bit *shok* But no need for apologies as you're a good guy *good*

That'll teach me to reply to threads immediately after just coming off a rather long night-shift... ;-)