Are Watts related to price?

[ChrisIRL]

As per title. Are watts related to price? I've noticed that an increase in watts seems to go hand in hand with an increase in price of amplifiers. Should this be the case? Most 1k amps are in and around 70 to 80 watts. Double this price brings you into the 120 to 150 wpc region and so on. Why is this? Is it just a measuring tool used by manufacturers to simplify things? Should watts really be the measure of value of an amp? Perhaps it's more difficult to create good sound quality at higher power. What's the justification for more watts = more expense?

I'm not asking this from a cynical point of view, I have little to no electronics understanding. Are the components required vastly more expensive? There are exceptions of course, but the likes of Behringer or other "pro" gear for example are considered to not have great sound quality. It's regularly suggested my ATC SCM11s need more power to do their thing but when I shop around it's hard not to baulk at the prices being asked. As a relative newcomer was hifi always so expensive?

 

[macdiddy]

No

 

[radiorog]

No

Agreed. Roksan k3 - 150w - £1250

Roksan Caspian 70w - more.

 

[radiorog]

No

Agreed. Roksan k3 - 150w - £1250

Roksan Caspian 70w - more.

 

[radiorog]

No

Agreed. Roksan k3 - 150w - £1250

Roksan Caspian 70w - more.

 

[radiorog]

No

Agreed. Roksan k3 - 150w - £1250

Roksan Caspian 70w - more.

 

[radiorog]

No

Agreed. Roksan k3 - 150w - £1250

Roksan Caspian 70w - more.

 

[radiorog]

Ummm...?!

 

[Andrewjvt]

No

Some very expensive high end amps have 100w

 

[ChrisIRL]

No

Agreed. Roksan k3 - 150w - £1250

Roksan Caspian 70w - more.

One of the rare exceptions that seems to suggest good sound quality at higher power is the problem.

 

[ChrisIRL]

No

Some very expensive high end amps have 100w

So is this manufacturer suggesting 100w is enough? Is 100w enough?

 

[macdiddy]

25 watts per channel for $95,000

*music2*

 

[ChrisIRL]

25 watts per channel for $95,000

*music2*

Why? Exceptional sound quality within max volume constraints?

 

[macdiddy]

the Pivetta Opera One power amp, $2.2 million for 160,000 watts.

*music2*

 

[ChrisIRL]

the Pivetta Opera One power amp, $2.2 million for 160,000 watts.

*music2*

Was going to get one but I heard it's not great at low volumes. Maybe some Rothwell attenuators would help. Bit pricey at £40 though...

 

[Andrewjvt]

No

Some very expensive high end amps have 100w

So is this manufacturer suggesting 100w is enough? Is 100w enough?

For most living rooms yes but the question is: how loud do you want to go, how large is the room, efficiency of the loud speakers, how demanding the music genre etc.
More important is the quality of the power supply than pure watts so that the amp can handle dynamic shifts and also deal with the impedance of the speaker when it dips.

All this has been covered in earlier threads to the point of no return.

But to sum it up always go for the most powerful amp in your price range with the most robust power supply.
Amps that can double up from 8 - 4 ohms and you wont go far wrong.

An extreme example of a very robust power supply look at the specs of the abrahamsen vp intergrated(upgraded version) has 70w but has a 1000va transformer and 100 000uf capacitance,16 amp relays and 12 output devices.

So it will only play as loud as the next 70w amp but what it will do better is not clip when pushed hard.

Compare those spec to other make amps at £898 and 70w and youll be amazed.

Hope that helps

 

[ChrisIRL]

Thanks for the info, did spot these as an option. Curious how and why a 1000va transformer is in a 70w amp? It doesn't clip at higher volume but is clipping not the limiting factor ultimately of how high an amp can go? I've also found that larger transformers are more prone to humming. Strikes me a bit as putting a 4.0L engine in a 1.0L chassis.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Thanks for the info, did spot these as an option. Curious how and why a 1000va transformer is in a 70w amp? It doesn't clip at higher volume but is clipping not the limiting factor ultimately of how high an amp can go? I've also found that larger transformers are more prone to humming. Strikes me a bit as putting a 4.0L engine in a 1.0L chassis. 

I did say exteme example but your right in a way but you could always use the amp for execution if you get fed up with music

 

[Ajani]

As per title. Are watts related to price? I've noticed that an increase in watts seems to go hand in hand with an increase in price of amplifiers. Should this be the case? Most 1k amps are in and around 70 to 80 watts. Double this price brings you into the 120 to 150 wpc region and so on. Why is this? Is it just a measuring tool used by manufacturers to simplify things? Should watts really be the measure of value of an amp? Perhaps it's more difficult to create good sound quality at higher power. What's the justification for more watts = more expense?

I'm not asking this from a cynical point of view, I have little to no electronics understanding. Are the components required vastly more expensive? There are exceptions of course, but the likes of Behringer or other "pro" gear for example are considered to not have great sound quality. It's regularly suggested my ATC SCM11s need more power to do their thing but when I shop around it's hard not to baulk at the prices being asked. As a relative newcomer was hifi always so expensive?

From a strictly technical standpoint - Yes, it is more expensive to produce more watts. Especially in more traditional Class A & A/B as you will need beefier heatsinks (not to mention power supplies) to keep the amp from overheating. So more parts, more casework, blah, blah, blah.

Also, the main issue with pro amps is that many of them use very noisy fans to cool instead of large heatsinks on consumer amps. As to sound quality, there are quite a few audiophiles and reviewers who regard the claim of inferior sound quality as pure nonsense.

I would try the Crown XLS1500 or XLS1502 with those ATCs... Powerful and cheap. Class D, so you can run them all day without getting the cooling fan to chip in.

 

[ChrisIRL]

Thanks for the info, did spot these as an option. Curious how and why a 1000va transformer is in a 70w amp? It doesn't clip at higher volume but is clipping not the limiting factor ultimately of how high an amp can go? I've also found that larger transformers are more prone to humming. Strikes me a bit as putting a 4.0L engine in a 1.0L chassis.

I did say exteme example but your right in a way but you could always use the amp for execution if you get fed up with music

Nah, easier way to execute someone would be to show them the price of Hegel H360 *biggrin*. Joking, I'm sure it's a beauty and well worth the enjoyment.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Thanks for the info, did spot these as an option. Curious how and why a 1000va transformer is in a 70w amp? It doesn't clip at higher volume but is clipping not the limiting factor ultimately of how high an amp can go? I've also found that larger transformers are more prone to humming. Strikes me a bit as putting a 4.0L engine in a 1.0L chassis.?

I did say exteme example but your right in a way but you could always use the amp for execution if you get fed up with music

Nah, easier way to execute someone would be to show them the price of Hegel H360 *biggrin*. Joking, I'm sure it's a beauty and well worth the enjoyment.

Yes was a lot but i love it. And good value for money but thats another story. My only issue now is i need atc speakers to match the amp.

 

[ChrisIRL]

Class D could be the answer thanks. Avoiding chasing the big consumer brands would probably be a good thing too. Thing is I look at my system and my speakers very much fall into the performance exceeding price category, my source the Chord Mojo likewise. However I can't find an amp that exceeds it's price in terms of performance and specs. What I've had up to now has been really really good, but only as good as it's price. Where's the 1k 200wpc amp that has the sound quality and prat etc? I don't need this power by any means but would be nice to know it's there for the rare times I might. I was always led to believe speakers should be more expensive than the amp, amp more than source as a rough guide. ATCs recommended 75 to 300w for the 11s doesn't really allow for this. Even their own amps are double the price of the speakers which seems to go against how highly they rate the importance of good speakers.

 

[Ajani]

Class D could be the answer thanks. Avoiding chasing the big consumer brands would probably be a good thing too. Thing is I look at my system and my speakers very much fall into the performance exceeding price category, my source the Chord Mojo likewise. However I can't find an amp that exceeds it's price in terms of performance and specs. What I've had up to now has been really really good, but only as good as it's price. Where's the 1k 200wpc amp that has the sound quality and prat etc? I don't need this power by any means but would be nice to know it's there for the rare times I might. I was always led to believe speakers should be more expensive than the amp, amp more than source as a rough guide. ATCs recommended 75 to 300w for the 11s doesn't really allow for this. Even their own amps are double the price of the speakers which seems to go against how highly they rate the importance of good speakers.

The Crown XLS1502 is 300W @ 8 ohms, so you'll certainly meet ATC's recommended power.

 

[ChrisIRL]

Thanks for the info, did spot these as an option. Curious how and why a 1000va transformer is in a 70w amp? It doesn't clip at higher volume but is clipping not the limiting factor ultimately of how high an amp can go? I've also found that larger transformers are more prone to humming. Strikes me a bit as putting a 4.0L engine in a 1.0L chassis.

I did say exteme example but your right in a way but you could always use the amp for execution if you get fed up with music

Nah, easier way to execute someone would be to show them the price of Hegel H360 *biggrin*. Joking, I'm sure it's a beauty and well worth the enjoyment.

Yes was a lot but i love it. And good value for money but thats another story. My only issue now is i need atc speakers to match the amp.

You have to. They are exceptional. I have the 11s. I can only imagine how good the 19s or 40s are. Don't rule out the 11s though, more isn't always better. Any model would be great with your H360 I've no doubt.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Thanks for the info, did spot these as an option. Curious how and why a 1000va transformer is in a 70w amp? It doesn't clip at higher volume but is clipping not the limiting factor ultimately of how high an amp can go? I've also found that larger transformers are more prone to humming. Strikes me a bit as putting a 4.0L engine in a 1.0L chassis.?

I did say exteme example but your right in a way but you could always use the amp for execution if you get fed up with music

Nah, easier way to execute someone would be to show them the price of Hegel H360 *biggrin*. Joking, I'm sure it's a beauty and well worth the enjoyment.

Yes was a lot but i love it. And good value for money but thats another story. My only issue now is i need atc speakers to match the amp.

You have to. They are exceptional. I have the 11s. I can only imagine how good the 19s or 40s are. Don't rule out the 11s though, more isn't always better. Any model would be great with your H360 I've no doubt.

This year ill save. Cant wait.
If only someone wants my kef r700s