Arcam FMJ A19 vs Creek Evo 50A

[Lo Fi]

Have any members heard these two amplifiers and if so which do they think would be best in a system comprising Monitor Audio RX6 speakers and an Audiolab 8200cd player.
I currently have a Rega Brio R but find it a bit bright and wonder which of the above two amplifiers would help improve my system

 

[paulsue38]

I have never heard the Rega been described as bright so perhaps the combination of speakers and CD player is responsible for any perceived brightness? Have you also considered speaker placement and room acouistics? Of the amps you mention the reviews suggest that the Creek is more neural and the Arcam slightly warmer. Given your set up I would have thougt the Arcam would match well.

Best wishes

Paul

 

[Lo Fi]

If you have a look on the other well known forum you will in fact find some others who think the Rega is bright at the top end, perhaps there are a few of us around that have sensitive ears.

 

[BigH]

I did not find the Rega bright either. Maybe its your speakers. Out of the Arcam and Creek then the Arcam is warmer, just read the review on the creek website but Creek has more dynamics and grunt.

Here is part of the group test comments "Although it didn’t have the sumptuous warmth of the excellent Arcam, the Creek dug even

deeper into the musicians’ subtle playing infl ections to give an eerily lifelike sound. It suited the Mahler especially well, giving everything

order and form, making the Arcam sound just a little too louche and the others disjointed by comparison.

The result was a lovely, threedimensional recorded acoustic inside which the orchestra could live and breathe. Here the Creek proved

itself the absolute class of the field. Dynamically it was superb, seemingly having as much in reserve

as all save the NAD, and able to keep its powder dry even when called to deliver ‘No More I Love You’s’ at

anti-social volumes. It maintained rhythmic cohesion while serving up vast amounts of grunt without

complaint. A brilliant all-round performer and epic value for money"

I have heard the Arcam A19 and will hear the Creek this Saturday hopefully.

 

[BigH]

If you look on here you will find that some find the MAs too bright: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/monitor-audio-rx6-too-bright

What speaker cables do you have?

What is your room like?

HAve you considered fitting resistors on the speakers, these canbe fitted between the - and + terminals to reduce the high freq. only cost about 60p each.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

BigH, surely you'd want to do this on a biwired configuration only, as otherwise the resistance affects both high and low sections of the crossover. To be honest, you'd be far better using an lpad to attenuate the tweeter, assuming that to be the problem.

Even then, it might be the characteristics of the tweeter at the crossover point that caused the brightness, in which case you'd need to change the crossover point , and for that you'd basically need to recalculate the values of the crossover.

 

[BigH]

BigH, surely you'd want to do this on a biwired configuration only, as otherwise the resistance affects both high and low sections of the crossover. To be honest, you'd be far better using an lpad to attenuate the tweeter, assuming that to be the problem.

But if you bi-wire then won't all the high notes go to the tweeters, I thought the point of resistors was to stop some of the high freq. getting to the tweeters.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Surely you'd need a capacitor to roll off the highs, and then attached only to the tweeter?

Anyway, if you have speakers with a forward treble, as is described here, then rather than playing around if the sound doesn't suit you're better off returning them and getting a more balanced set.

 

[BigH]

Looking on the forum there are quite a few posts about MAs being harsh, maybe its the metal tweeters. IMHO I think the speakers will change the sound more than the amp. If I were you I would look into resistors to tam ethe tweeters, can't find the post on here now, it was about 1-2 months ago and try that, you can buy them from Maplins for less than £1, think he got about 2 Ohms ones, if that does not work I would demo some speakers with the Rega amp and the Arcam/Creek with your speakers.

 

[BigH]

Here is the post about resistors and also about the Arcam A19, seems it won't be the answer either.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/my-thoughts-on-the-arcam-a19-epos-epic-2-combination?page=1

 

[altruistic.lemon]

What he's doing there is similar to how an lpad works, which is to reduce the volume of the tweeter over all frequencies. It won't roll them off as such.

 

[Lo Fi]

I did not find the Rega bright either. Maybe its your speakers. Out of the Arcam and Creek then the Arcam is warmer, just read the review on the creek website but Creek has more dynamics and grunt.

Here is part of the group test comments "Although it didn’t have the sumptuous warmth of the excellent Arcam, the Creek dug even

deeper into the musicians’ subtle playing infl ections to give an eerily lifelike sound. It suited the Mahler especially well, giving everything

order and form, making the Arcam sound just a little too louche and the others disjointed by comparison.

The result was a lovely, threedimensional recorded acoustic inside which the orchestra could live and breathe. Here the Creek proved

itself the absolute class of the field. Dynamically it was superb, seemingly having as much in reserve

as all save the NAD, and able to keep its powder dry even when called to deliver ‘No More I Love You’s’ at

anti-social volumes. It maintained rhythmic cohesion while serving up vast amounts of grunt without

complaint. A brilliant all-round performer and epic value for money"

I have heard the Arcam A19 and will hear the Creek this Saturday hopefully.

Hi Big H will be interested to hear your opinion of the Creek after your demo.

 

[BigH]

Yes I will post about it, not sure what other speakers he has as mostly used gear but only dealer within easy reach that seems to have the Creek in stock.

 

[jiggyjoe]

You cant use resistors on rx6 because the upper terminals feed the upper bass/mid driver as well as the tweeter. Have you tried listening off the tweeter axis ie with the speakers facing straight ahead with no toe in?

Rx6 sounds very good on arcam amps by the way, very detailed and smooth and great at low volumes.

 

[csq2]

Hifi Choice gave the Creek Evo 50A and Editor's Choice Award, while the Arcam A19 only got a recommended award. In a comparison test in Hi-fi News, Creek Evo 50A scored 85% while the Arcam scored 80%.

 

[radiorog]

I've only heard the A19 and didnt like it at all in comparisson to other amps around these days. Its sounded really light/weak. Lots of detail but no warmth at all. It was right out of the box though, but I would be really surprised if it warmed up enough to be enjoyable to my ears. I find the brio r a really warm amp. I am def no expert tho, just going by my ears.

 

[Lo Fi]

I've only heard the A19 and didnt like it at all in comparisson to other amps around these days. Its sounded really light/weak. Lots of detail but no warmth at all. It was right out of the box though, but I would be really surprised if it warmed up enough to be enjoyable to my ears. I find the brio r a really warm amp. I am def no expert tho, just going by my ears.

Well at least you heard it and didnt quote what you have seen in a review.
What were the other components that you heard it with.
Also are you saying that you think that you prefer the Brio and what did you hear the Brio with.

 

[Lo Fi]

I contacted MA regarding the best amp for the RX6s and they suggested Arcam or Roksan and also as I read it that I would find them both less bright than the Rega Brio R. So they were not saying the Rega BrioR is bright but that it is brighter than the Arcam or Roksan.

As a matter of interest I previously had MA RX1s which I loved, so I am surprised that I find the RX6s a bit brighter, they have been in place for 4 months now so should be well run in. But they are not in the same place as the RX1s so maybe my room acoustics have something to do with it.

Anyway I feel that the Arcam FMJA19 is probably the best choice for me as I think it will also have more bass control over the RX6s

 

[BigH]

Hi Big H will be interested to hear your opinion of the Creek after your demo.

OK just back from Creek demo. Set up not ideal, in open shop that was stuff full of gear, speakers were on proper stands about 6 feet away and about 6-7 feet apart, chair was normal height so your eyes were about 1 foot above tweeters, having said all that they did not sound bad and soundstage was quite good. OK this difficult because of room and all the speakers were different from the Arcam A19 but impressions were fine, detailed amp. which I think would suit me and me sort of music (70s rock, jazz, vocals, world, so more acoustic than metal or hard rock). First speaker up was Epos Epic 5 (floorstanders made by same company as Creek), lots of bass, lots of sound even at fairly modest volume, 2 things I did not like was bass was boomy at times and treble was a bit forward for me. 2 switch to standmounts and try the Epos M5is, bass oblivious not so much but treble still similar to the 5s, overall a good speaker but treble. Then tried some Ushers they were very similar to the M5is. Then tried some Rogers LS2as I think these were better for treble to me, but a bit unrefined at times, flute and double bass could be a bit harsh or unruly. Then switched to Roksan Kandy amp. this was similar to the Creek bit more bass maybe and more power but at modest volumes not much difference.

I would like to try the Creek amp. again in a proper audition room or at home but so few dealers stock it I think only way is to get one from Creek on 14 day trial. As for speakers I will still be searching.

 

[BigH]

I heard the Rega Brio R and then the Arcam A19 with B&W CM1s. The Brio was OK but I felt a bit weak to drive the CM1s which are only 84db, can't say I was that impressed, sounded harsh at higher volume. The Arcam seemed better more detail but for me over refined for my taste, I may go back and hear it again with some totem and Focal speakers. The big problem is hearing all these system in the same location so very difficult to really compare.

Update my dealers does not do the Totems standmount or Focals, so drawn another blank. I could try the Arcam with some Epos or Kefs at another dealer which I may do next week.

 

[Lo Fi]

So Big H which do you think is the better based on your listening to both amps.
I think that perhaps I will stick to my first impression and go with the Arcam which does seem to work well with MA.

 

[plastic penguin]

So Big H which do you think is the better based on your listening to both amps. I think that perhaps I will stick to my first impression and go with the Arcam which does seem to work well with MA.

Really don't think you'll be disappointed with either amp*. Having heard the Evo2 and Arcams they have always been my recommendation with MAs.

*Assuming the new Creek and A19 has the same tonal balance, of course.

 

[BigH]

As I said its difficult to compare but I would be inclined to go for the Creek, certainly there enough bass for me but that is more dependent on the speakers, the Epos 5s had too much bass. I would say the Creek had more detail but the Arcam was more refined (not neccessarily a good thing). Out of the amps I have heard some far: Rega Brio R, MF M3i, Arcam A19, Audiolab 8200A, Creek 50A and Roksan Kandy K2, I would probably go for the Creek, if I had a large room or insensitive speakers I would go for the K2. But really I would hav eto hear them agin all in the same room with same speakers to make any real judgement. The MF M3i was good but too expensive at £1,000, the K2 is only £700, I would say the Rega was the weakest.

 

[csq2]

Like I said before, Creek has a slightly leaner bass compared to the overblown bass on the Arcam. So pair the Creek with speakers that have high sensitivity and good bass response. In North America, the MF M3i ($1500) is only $300 more than the Creek Evo 50A ($1200). The Roksan is even more expensive than both them. Do you think the M3i is better than the Creek?

 

[DIB]

BigH,

I presume that your dealer didn't have the smaller Epos Elan 30s floorstanders? Approx £250 more than the Epic 5s but IMO a more refined speaker. When I demoed speakers over Xmas with my own Creek amp at the dealers I tried both models alongside a few other makes ( ProAc, Totem and MA) and the Elans came out on top for me. I find the bass produced by the Elans just right for me, not too much but there when needed.

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