Arcam A19 vs A28

[plastic penguin]

IMO. The likes of Sugden, Harbeth, Spendor Classic Series and Sonus Faber will give you the sound that you're after.

Yes but those brands are beyond most people's bank balance.

Sonus Faber Toys and the smaller Spendor Classics can be picked up at sensible money (especially ex-dem)......and second hand Sugdens are reasonably affordable. If the will to succeed is there, it can be achieved.

I know - I agree but not everyone is prepared to ex-dem or s/hand. Just with a limited budget the best compromise is the usual suspect around the sub-£1000 mark. In addition those brands, such as Harbeth, Sugden, Sonus Faber have limited outlets, whereas Arcam, Marantz, MA, Focal, Kef, ProAc etc etc can be picked up pretty much most places.

The same problem has hit Creek, Exposure, MonoPulse, Usher, ATC, Lavardin.... This is one thing that frustrates me.

 

[CnoEvil]

I know - I agree but not everyone is prepared to ex-dem or s/hand. Just with a limited budget the best compromise is the usual suspect around the sub-£1000 mark. In addition those brands, such as Harbeth, Sugden, Sonus Faber have limited outlets, whereas Arcam, Marantz, MA, Focal, Kef, ProAc etc etc can be picked up pretty much most places.

The same problem has hit Creek, Exposure, MonoPulse, Usher, ATC, Lavardin.... This is one thing that frustrates me.

If you are someone like Cse, who clearly loves his Classical music, is not new to Hifi, and is totally frustrated by the way a lot of modern kit sounds......this is one (possible) sensible solution.

 

[Lo Fi]

It is definately modern equipment where the problem lies some of my cds are from 70s and they were fine on my old Mission Cyrus speakers but dont sound so good now. Of course the other way of looking at it is that modern equipment reveals more detail that could not be heard before.
I actually find classical violin etc to sound fine, but some female pop singers are shrill.

 

[Pete68]

I think a lot of the modern (budget) equipment is set up to sound quite bright, it has showroom appeal but can be fatiguing over extended periods.

 

[plastic penguin]

It is definately modern equipment where the problem lies some of my cds are from 70s and they were fine on my old Mission Cyrus speakers but dont sound so good now. Of course the other way of looking at it is that modern equipment reveals more detail that could not be heard before. I actually find classical violin etc to sound fine, but some female pop singers are shrill.

By the sounds of it the recording is as much to blame as the equipment. Certainly what I've found.

If it is brighter then the only solution is to buy old s/hand amps and cdps (70s and 80s).

 

[Lo Fi]

Hi PP take your point but some of my fairly recent violin concertos and some pop music sound absolutely fantastic on my system but as I say some older cds sound too bright and shrill. Unfortunately due to my age I dont get many recent recordings especially as I have never even heard of the artists and a lot of classical is quite old. I have the Bach Tocatta and Fugue which was originally recorded in 1956 they dont seem to record this type of music often.

Cant win them all but I would say this, its better to have some really great pieces of music rather than all the music sounding dull and lifeless.

Obviously I will never buy any really bright kit, I know some say that MA is bright but its not compared with a lot of other speakers I have heard.

To a certain extent it is hard to get equipment that produces great detail without showing the flaws in recording but when you get a first class recording the equipment really shines through.

 

[cse]

Define contemporary hi-fi?

Is this a serious question? Obviously, i mean those brands/items that are for sale at you local HIFI dealership.

 

[cse]

IMO. The likes of Sugden, Harbeth, Spendor Classic Series and Sonus Faber will give you the sound that you're after.

Thanls. Those are definately the brands that I will look out for. I like the idea of the Spendor Classic Series or Harbeth, but i've never heard Sonus Faber or Sugden. Where should I start?

 

[CnoEvil]

IMO. The likes of Sugden, Harbeth, Spendor Classic Series and Sonus Faber will give you the sound that you're after.

Thanls. Those are definately the brands that I will look out for. I like the idea of the Spendor Classic Series or Harbeth, but i've never heard Sonus Faber or Sugden. Where should I start?

Hi Cse, this is what I would do.

1. Have a rough idea of budget

2. Choose speakers big enough for room size

3. Check each brand's website to get an idea of range, and especially where the dealers are.....ring if necessary

4. Check prices, reviews and forum feedback

5. Start the demo process, where the winners are preferably brought back for a home demo.

Here are some links:

Sugden http://www.sugdenaudio.com/stockists.htm

Harbeth http://www.harbeth.co.uk/uk/index.php?section=products&page=wheretobuy&continent=Europe

Spendor http://www.spendoraudio.com/HTML/dealers.html

Sonus Faber (Absolute Sounds are the distributor) http://www.absolutesounds.com/nearest_dealer.php

Further info:

- http://www.hificorner.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=spendor

- http://www.hificorner.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/index/?limit=30&manufacturer=149&q=harbeth+

- http://www.jordanacoustics.co.uk/amplifiers.php?manufacturer=Sugden&value=2

- http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?manufacturer=sonus+faber

Bargains can be had with ex-display, B Stock, ex-dem and second hand from a reputable dealer (who takes trade-ins).....Mac usually has a good grasp of where the bargains are. If you start a thread on Sugden / Harbeth / Spendor, you will get good feedback, especially if you give an idea of where you live.

Hope this helps

Cno

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi PP take your point but some of my fairly recent violin concertos and some pop music sound absolutely fantastic on my system but as I say some older cds sound too bright and shrill. Unfortunately due to my age I dont get many recent recordings especially as I have never even heard of the artists and a lot of classical is quite old. I have the Bach Tocatta and Fugue which was originally recorded in 1956 they dont seem to record this type of music often.

Cant win them all but I would say this, its better to have some really great pieces of music rather than all the music sounding dull and lifeless.

Obviously I will never buy any really bright kit, I know some say that MA is bright but its not compared with a lot of other speakers I have heard.

To a certain extent it is hard to get equipment that produces great detail without showing the flaws in recording but when you get a first class recording the equipment really shines through.

Catch 22. Everyone, it seems, demand more insight, clarity and detail but don't want any of the forwardness that goes with it. I suppose system matching is (possibly) more essential than perhaps 30 years ago.

Personally speaking I've got no real issues with brightness. My only mmm is with some recordings sound a little mechanical, generally the remastered CDs.

 

[cse]

Bargains can be had with ex-display, B Stock, ex-dem and second hand from a reputable dealer (who takes trade-ins).....Mac usually has a good grasp of where the bargains are. If you start a thread on Sugden / Harbeth / Spendor, you will get good feedback, especially if you give an idea of where you live.

Hope this helps

Cno

Thanks again CnoEvil. I live in suffolk. However, I don't really want to audition any more, as I find the whole process misleading. I don't really trust my judgements in a dealership environment, where there is always a certain amount of pressure/expectation. My room is small, about 13ft long 9ft wide.

 

[ID.]

Define contemporary hi-fi?

Is this a serious question? Obviously, i mean those brands/items that are for sale at you local HIFI dealership.

My question would be, when did this trend begin? Can we pick out a specific or general era where this came to be generally true?

TBH, I could go to my closest dealer and find a mix of warm easy listening stuff as well as stuff that sounds a bit hard. I'd also want to be comparing like for like in terms of accounting for inflation. e.g. a 500 pound amp in the 80s would have been pretty pricey, so comparing it to a current 500 pound amp wouldn't really be accurate.

 

[CnoEvil]

Bargains can be had with ex-display, B Stock, ex-dem and second hand from a reputable dealer (who takes trade-ins).....Mac usually has a good grasp of where the bargains are. If you start a thread on Sugden / Harbeth / Spendor, you will get good feedback, especially if you give an idea of where you live.

Hope this helps

Cno

Thanks again CnoEvil. I live in suffolk. However, I don't really want to audition any more, as I find the whole process misleading. I don't really trust my judgements in a dealership environment, where there is always a certain amount of pressure/expectation. My room is small, about 13ft long 9ft wide.

In which case you should find a dealer/s who will let you do a home trial of a Sugden + Harbeth / Spendor for a few days. This is an easy, pressure-free way of doing it......and I feel pretty confident that you would find it well worth the effort.

I have the very same issues as you when playing Classical music through modern systems, and this is exactly the type of system I would have if I lived mostly on a diet of this genre of music.

As I said previously, Mac has great contacts for this sort of thing and could steer you right.........if you lived in NI I would be better able to help, as it's more my turf.