Arcam A 19. I feel it has a big issue.

[atishaysingh]

Hi i have been owning an Arcam A 19 for four months now. I was using it with B&W 683's after a lot of running in i finally decided to crank up the volume above 50 and i could hear a crackling sound through my tweeters. I reduced the volume and since then my speaker sound sharp.

Its been a month of this and that checks since then. Changing cables, source, interconnects.

I went down to the local dealer thinking that probably beacause of the laod (drop to 3 ohms) my speakers take. The amp must have distorted and damaged my tweeters.

Since then my speakers have not sounded the way they used to.

So at the local dealer i tried a pair of zensor 3 with Arcam A 19( Adifferent one). Things were much relaxed and nice i auditioned for 20 - 30 mins. althought we cant compare to 683 the over all sound as zensors are entry levels.

I took the volume at 52 53 54 and they started sounding strained but nothing distorted or there was no crackling sound. I lowered the volume.

Now after hitting them with that volume with this amp A 19 and this was a different peice not mine (brand new) . The speakers at any volume started sounding sharp. This was not the case minutes back with the same speakers and amp. The way i see it something went wrong with the tweeters/speakers. And Bacause of that its started sounding as sharp as my system at any volume. and there after it was painful listening to them as well.

I may be so doomed buying this amp. Dunno what to do...

 

[chebby]

Hi i have been owning an Arcam A 19 for four months now. I was using it with B&W 683's after a lot of running in i finally decided to crank up the volume above 50 and i could hear a crackling sound through my tweeters. I reduced the volume and since then my speaker sound sharp.

Its been a month of this and that checks since then. Changing cables, source, interconnects.

I went down to the local dealer thinking that probably beacause of the laod (drop to 3 ohms) my speakers take. The amp must have distorted and damaged my tweeters.

Since then my speakers have not sounded the way they used to.

So at the local dealer i tried a pair of zensor 3 with Arcam A 19( Adifferent one). Things were much relaxed and nice i auditioned for 20 - 30 mins. althought we cant compare to 683 the over all sound as zensors are entry levels.

I took the volume at 52 53 54 and they started sounding strained but nothing distorted or there was no crackling sound. I lowered the volume.

Now after hitting them with that volume with this amp A 19 and this was a different peice not mine (brand new) . The speakers at any volume started sounding sharp. This was not the case minutes back with the same speakers and amp. The way i see it something went wrong with the tweeters/speakers. And Bacause of that its started sounding as sharp as my system at any volume. and there after it was painful listening to them as well.

I may be so doomed buying this amp. Dunno what to do...

We've been here before.

Stop thrashing your system or buy a more powerful amp.

Why is it so necessary to test your amp / speakers to destruction every time you get new ones?

I have never bought a new amp (or speakers) and thought ... "let's see how far up it'll go before sounding bad or causing damage".

 

[plastic penguin]

Yes, Chebby is right.

If you want disco levels then DON'T buy a 50 watt Arcam. It is only designed to be used in a normal room at normal volumes.

Only one thing to blame and it isn't the amp or the speakers

 

[ID.]

So, I'm not sure I've understood, but is it the case that, after the previous thread where you complained about the same thing, and everyone explained that the amp was clipping, you still absolutely refuse to believe what is a commonly known fact about amplifier clipping and damaged another set of speakers by turning up the volume until it clipped?

I think I know where the big issue is, and it isn't probably isn't the amp :doh:

I'm pretty sure all the answers you need are in your previous thread

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/bowers-and-wilkins-683-issue

You seem to be in complete denial about the issue of clipping, despite the technical editor of the magazine also commenting to that effect.

It is a relatively low powered amp and the amp (like most amps) doesn't have a mechanism for cutting out whenever there is clipping. In fact most amps don't, although some amps do have a soft clipping function. I don't think clipping has anything to do with the difficulty of the load, but others may have a better idea.

Was this just the demo equipment at the store rather than the a pair of Zensor's you had bought? I'd want to be sure that they were damaged rather than just sounding bright due the the recording or some other circumstances.

 

[markiedee]

I've owned the a19 with a pair of kef r100s and never suffered with a issue like that, if anything I found the a19 to have a high output with little volume required to get it at a level that liked, volume level 45 - 50 was party level in my flat... It sounds like a strange issue with yours.

 

[Tarxman]

Yes, Chebby is right.

If you want disco levels then DON'T buy a 50 watt Arcam. It is only designed to be used in a normal room at normal volumes.

Only one thing to blame and it isn't the amp or the speakers

Couldnt have put it better myself. I can't believe just how many people have the outlook "well if the volume goes up that high, I should be able to listen to it up that high!"

 

[atishaysingh]

Hmmm!!!

Thanks for a bit of thrashing.

So what i take from the suggestion above and other forum is.

1. So be it the Zensor 3 or the B&W 683 the speakers will get damaged around the same volume from a 50 watt amp clipping at the same volume. Really ????????

Should an amp be damaging the speakers at 50 vol that is half of what they are capable of. ( i know that defers with source and sensitivity of speakers)

The Zensor 3 were also a new peice as was the amp A19 both were at the dealer not mine.

But they would exibit the exact same problem ????? at same volume and would destroy the spakers in seconds.

So by that logic if i have an A 19 and some day accidently the volume goes above 50 even for a min. Thats it a repair is needed almost irrespective of the speakers. (from a decent source obviously)

And can some one really tell me what really goes wrong with the speakers. i mean how would they just start sounding a lot sharper both of them but no real distortion at any volume just a sharper sound.

Help will be appriciated...

 

[atishaysingh]

They were sounding nice i auditioned them for 20 mins. (different tracks). and once i took the volume uptil 50 51 52 53 54 for less than a min. every thing changed post that at any volume even 40 was sounding sharper than before clearly they were just sounding like my speakers. And yes i did not buy any. Both zensor 3 and the a 19 belonged to the dealer... My A 19 is just kept at my place. My speakers are with the B&W Dealer...for testing...

 

[atishaysingh]

RE: Bowers And Wilkins 683 Issue...
B&W's 683 specifications state the minimum impedance drops to 3 Ohms (nominal 8 Ohms).

That is quite a demanding load and I would suggest you need a much more powerful amp or much less demanding speakers (especially as you seem to enjoy playing music loud).

Above are your words. Zensor 3 has is between 4 - 6 ohms. now what!!! shal i find a speaker between 8 and 6 and never below is that what should be suggested.

 

[Tarxman]

Hmmm!!!

Thanks for a bit of thrashing.

So what i take from the suggestion above and other forum is.

1. So be it the Zensor 3 or the B&W 683 the speakers will get damaged around the same volume from a 50 watt amp clipping at the same volume. Really ????????

Should an amp be damaging the speakers at 50 vol that is half of what they are capable of. ( i know that defers with source and sensitivity of speakers)

The Zensor 3 were also a new peice as was the amp A19 both were at the dealer not mine.

But they would exibit the exact same problem ????? at same volume and would destroy the spakers in seconds.

So by that logic if i have an A 19 and some day accidently the volume goes above 50 even for a min. Thats it a repair is needed almost irrespective of the speakers. (from a decent source obviously)

And can some one really tell me what really goes wrong with the speakers. i mean how would they just start sounding a lot sharper both of them but no real distortion at any volume just a sharper sound.

Help will be appriciated...

Atishay,

I'm going to try and put this in a way I hope you'll understand.

Just because an amps volume dial CAN be turned up all the way, doesn't mean it's MEANT to be.

Do you drive a car at 280kms an hour just because the speedo says it can go that fast? I, for one, sure as hell hope not.

My Kandy only ever goes up past one quarter if I'm listening to records due to the lower gain from my turntable vs my cd player.

There is a point with amplifiers, particularly at this sort of power output, where increasing the volume will cause it to clip, thereby damaging your speakers. In fact you are far more likely to damage speakers with a lower powered amp rather than a higher powered one.

 

[jiggyjoe]

Arcam's FMJ A19 shouldn't be used for driving loads much below 6 ohms at high levels, this is from stereophile lab test.

 

[plastic penguin]

Somehow I don't think the OP understands the consequences of overloading the speakers. He's had two threads he's started and still doesn't realise the damage is self-inflicted.

 

[alimcd]

Also, he seems to be under the impression that the volume ladder on the A19 goes up to 100.

I may check our demo one later if I get time, I'm pretty sure it goes to 60/70 tops so mid 50's is right at the top end of it's output.

(essentially the same comment as above but.... my toaster can grill bread for 7 minutes. I think 7 minute toast would be deemed "faulty")

 

[plastic penguin]

Also, he seems to be under the impression that the volume ladder on the A19 goes up to 100.

I may check our demo one later if I get time, I'm pretty sure it goes to 60/70 tops so mid 50's is right at the top end of it's output.

(essentially the same comment as above but.... my toaster can grill bread for 7 minutes. I think 7 minute toast would be deemed "faulty")

True...

BTW, are you a dealer? If so you need to make that clear in the signature. If not then I apologise.

 

[alimcd]

I work for an small high end dealer, but through a lesson learned at the 'Wam, will not divulge who and certainly not try to push our products.

We carry Arcam as you have probably figured out...

I prefer to remain seperate from the shop on the forum so I can share my own views and not those of the company.

 

[plastic penguin]

I work for an small high end dealer, but through a lesson learned at the 'Wam, will not divulge who and certainly not try to push our products.

We carry Arcam as you have probably figured out...

I prefer to remain seperate from the shop on the forum so I can share my own views and not those of the company.

Thanks. I do fully understand. Best to keep within the house rules....

 

[alimcd]

Plugged in an A19, I was wrong about the volume ladder! it does go up to 99!

Mind you 50+ is pretty deafening and the amplifier seems to harden up somewhat. Additative gain perhaps past 50?

 

[unsleepable]

Plugged in an A19, I was wrong about the volume ladder! it does go up to 99!

Mind you 50+ is pretty deafening and the amplifier seems to harden up somewhat. Additative gain perhaps past 50?

Does the volume at which clipping occur also depend on the speakers—e.g., impedance—, or just on the amplifier?

 

[eggontoast]

Arcam A 19. I feel it has a big issue.

Well one of them does, its called atishaysingh.

Most amplifiers will give maximum output at 50% volume, you have found this by wrecking numerous speakers.

Buy a more powerful amp, simple.

 

[jiggyjoe]

Again from stereophile: This is because, with continuous drive into 4 ohms at this level, the A19's protection circuit cuts in at frequencies below the midrange. Investigating this, it appears that the amplifier will protect itself when asked to deliver a low-frequency signal at more than 15W into 4 ohms for more than 5 seconds or so.

Into the very demanding load of 3 ohms at low frequency i'm not suprised the little arcam is struggling.

man your gonna need a Bigger Amp.

 

[plastic penguin]

Plugged in an A19, I was wrong about the volume ladder! it does go up to 99!

Mind you 50+ is pretty deafening and the amplifier seems to harden up somewhat. Additative gain perhaps past 50?

Does the volume at which clipping occur also depend on the speakers—e.g., impedance—, or just on the amplifier?

Yes, easy drive speakers won't clip as soon but at high volumes you will still cause damage at those levels - it is only a 50 watter, designed for a normal living room to play music at bearable levels i.e. so you can have a conversation without shouting or having your eardrums exploding.

If you want to an amp to resemble club levels then look at this instead. Or perhaps a Musical Fidelity A300, which has 200 watts per channel.

 

[bigfish786]

My little Arcam A70 behaves completely different to this. and it is only a 50w amp too.

i can, listen to music at high volume with no bad effects. (i don't do it often, but it has never caused me any problems)

it doesn't actually get loud until after 50% volume, mine counts downwards as it goes louder, rather than upwards.

is this designed differently to the a19?

 

[plastic penguin]

My little Arcam A70 behaves completely different to this. and it is only a 50w amp too.

i can, listen to music at high volume with no bad effects. (i don't do it often, but it has never caused me any problems)

it doesn't actually get loud until after 50% volume, mine counts downwards as it goes louder, rather than upwards.

is this designed differently to the a19?

The main difference is you have Focal speakers, which are a delight for entry-level Arcams.

 

[bigfish786]

couldn't agree with you more PP. the setup i have right now is fantastic. i seem to have hit the sweet spot with CD Amp and Speakers.

 

[plastic penguin]

couldn't agree with you more PP. the setup i have right now is fantastic. i seem to have hit the sweet spot with CD Amp and Speakers.

I've been banging on about Focal/Arcam combo for years on here, and some agree but few actually try the combo at home. Hey-ho - their loss not ours.