Apple TV - have I made a mistake...?

[PJ1200]

All I've just made a very instinctive purchase and ordered a Apple TV2 off Amazon (£85 for those of you that are interested). Problem is I'm not sure why!

Currently I have an old PC sat upstairs with all my music and photos on. I currently don't store any movies, but this may change. This PC runs iTunes on it, and I stream my music to my hifi using an AEX which is a 'client' (is that the right word) to my wireless router. I have an external drive that I use to back up my important files. I am very close to chopping in my PC and getting myself fully immersed into the world of Apple (probably a imac and an ipad - or a macbook pro). During this 'upgrade' I will be looking to store my music & photo files on an external drive, and naturally aim towards a Time Capsule. I was hoping transfer my files from my external drive to the TC and then run the apple products 'free' of hd-filling files. I'm sure this won't be as simple as I hope - but that's another thread.

Anyway, I was hoping that I could purchase the TC, transfer the data and use it as a kind of 'NAS' device where I could stream music, access files etc from any 'Apple' product in the house (iphone/pad/mac/tv). This appears not to be the case.... Once I've set up the ATV and synced it to itunes, I'm still going to have to have the computer ON in order to stream music/photos etc? Is there anything the ATV will be able to do that WILL NOT require the computer to be on? Is this likely to change in the future.

I'm clearly no IT wizard, but surely the end game is to have everything on an external wireless drive that you can access with any piece of equipment it is paired to within your home!? Why do have to have a PC/Mac on (with iTunes installed and open) in order to access files that are stored on your TC (or other storage device)???? Can someone help? Just as important, have I made a mistake in forking out £85? (I appreciate I should have done my research prior to purchase!)

Cheers PJ

 

[PJ1200]

All - apologies for the lack of paragraphs....

 

[John Duncan]

have added some for clarity.

 

[professorhat]

Sounds like you have since you do need iTunes to stream to Apple TV, therefore you will need your computer switched on. It's no great shakes though as Amazon are bound by law to accept it as a return within 7 days for a full refund. And even if they weren't, my personal experience of Amazon's customer service suggests to me they would do this anyway to ensure customer satisfaction.

What you need instead is the original white Apple TV with built in hard drive - they're not available to buy new any more, but you can still pick one up secondhand. Make sure you get one with enough space to store your music and photos though - there are two models, the 40 GB and the 160 GB.

EDIT - reading your post a bit more thoroughly, it's worth pointing out you will be able to stream music and photos from an iDevice (iPhone, iPod Touch or iPad) using Airplay. So if this is what you needed, the one you've ordered will be good enough. However, if you want to stream from your iTunes library, iTunes will need to be running.

 

[PJ1200]

Thanks PH - much appreciated

Doesn't it seem rather strange/odd that you can't use the TC as a base station to stream iTunes stuff to your devices??!

My PC is currently full - and (other than programmes) it's all music/photos. I suspect more than 160gb in total too!!!

I like the idea of airplay from devices, but of course I don't have all my music or photos on my iPhone. So this brings us back to the first point above. If Apple are offering a storage/backup device such as the TC that has built in wifi, why can't you use it as a complete base station to stream information to other devices?

Is this a flaw with iTunes? Could I get a more 'traditional' device - such a NAS or will I still have the same issues - i.e. iTunes needs to be 'on'.

Am I missing something, or is that all madness?? :?

 

[bigboss]

Not sure about Apple, but Sonos would suit your requirements beautifully. It can play music off a NAS drive.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I'm confused. There's something called itunes server which comes with NAS and media servers. What does this do? I thought it meand you could connect to the library running on such a device without leaving your computer on. In my case, it would mean I could access everything from my Apple TV2 as it can connect to itunes libraries.

Is this not so?

 

[barntonburly]

If you havent sent your apple TV back yet you could see if amazon will let you exchange it for a pogoplug pro.

Its basically a device with wireless streaming built in and can be used with your Ipad Iphone etc. I dont think it has any inbult storage itself but you can plug in USB drives with all your media and it them manges the streaming and remote access of said files.

Think you can also download an app for it to let you manage the playlists and do some advanced controls etc. Dont know if thats a better alternative. The only advantage of aplpe tv would be the ability to rent films etc.

 

[Paul.]

Another option is installing FireCore on your ATV2. It costs about £14 ($19.99), enables smb support for your nas as well as a million other things.

http://firecore.com/atvflash-black

 

[professorhat]

During this 'upgrade' I will be looking to store my music & photo files on an external drive, and naturally aim towards a Time Capsule. I was hoping transfer my files from my external drive to the TC and then run the apple products 'free' of hd-filling files. I'm sure this won't be as simple as I hope - but that's another thread.

Anyway, I was hoping that I could purchase the TC, transfer the data and use it as a kind of 'NAS' device where I could stream music, access files etc from any 'Apple' product in the house (iphone/pad/mac/tv).

Just a quick note on this - Time Capsule is meant to act as backup device, not as an alternative to a NAS. What it does is seamlessly backup your Mac and keeps older "versions" of files and folders, thus allowing you to theoretically restore your Mac to a point in time. This is useful if you take backups regularly, since you have many older copies of a file, rather than just the file in its state last time you took a backup.

So this isn't really appropriate for your use above - if you don't want to store your music, photos and videos on the Mac, you would want to use either a USB disk or a NAS for this, rather than a Time Capsule device as this isn't what it's intended for.

 

[professorhat]

Thanks PH - much appreciated

Doesn't it seem rather strange/odd that you can't use the TC as a base station to stream iTunes stuff to your devices??!

My PC is currently full - and (other than programmes) it's all music/photos. I suspect more than 160gb in total too!!!

I like the idea of airplay from devices, but of course I don't have all my music or photos on my iPhone. So this brings us back to the first point above. If Apple are offering a storage/backup device such as the TC that has built in wifi, why can't you use it as a complete base station to stream information to other devices?

Is this a flaw with iTunes? Could I get a more 'traditional' device - such a NAS or will I still have the same issues - i.e. iTunes needs to be 'on'.

Am I missing something, or is that all madness?? :?

Well, it depends on your point of view on whether it's a flaw or not, but yes, it's a shame you can't read music and photos direct from a NAS, or espeically a Time Capsule given this is proprietary Apple hardware. Whether this is done by design because Apple can't integrate this functionality (and ensure a consistent performance), or whether it's because they want to be awkward is anyone's guess - one assumes it's the former since there's little to be gained from the latter.

There are ways round it (as others have noted), one is using a different technology to stream everything (such as Sonos, though this is quite expensive and will only do music - albeit doing music very well!), or you could jailbreak the Apple TV and this then gives you more options I think.

There's also the option of enabling Wake On LAN for your new Apple Mac (example here) - this should in theory allowing to be able to power on the Mac from your iPhone (using an appropriate app). If you set iTunes to logon at boot and have an auto-logging on account, you can boot your Mac using the iPhone app from your sofa, wait for it to power on and load iTunes, then control it using the Remote app. Once you're finished, using a power off app (example here) to then power the Mac down.

I'm confused. There's something called itunes server which comes with NAS and media servers. What does this do? I thought it meand you could connect to the library running on such a device without leaving your computer on. In my case, it would mean I could access everything from my Apple TV2 as it can connect to itunes libraries.

Is this not so?

iTunes Server runs on the NAS and then allows any music stored on this to be seen within iTunes as a Shared Library. It doesn't act as an iTunes client though, so you still need iTunes running somewhere to be able to stream anything on such a device.

 

[PJ1200]

Hmm, all seems rather confusing now!! I'm even looking at MacMini's - as you can plug those into your TV and it will have itunes on it etc....

Looks like I'm going to have to do some more research!

 

[PJ1200]

And thanks again PH - very informative as usual.

It seems crazy to me! It really does! Surely everyone that has a computer has music/films/photos on it. They want to access these wherever they are (ideally) but certainly using any device in the house.

You would like to think Apple would do this - from what I've seen, they don't!

 

[professorhat]

And thanks again PH - very informative as usual.

No problem

It seems crazy to me! It really does! Surely everyone that has a computer has music/films/photos on it. They want to access these wherever they are (ideally) but certainly using any device in the house.

You would like to think Apple would do this - from what I've seen, they don't!

Well, you see if the music / photos / films are located on the computer (as they are probably for most people), then naturally the computer would have to be switched on to access them. So for most people, streaming from iTunes / iPhoto to Apple TV is as they would expect. It's when you want to start storing and accessing them from an external device (like a NAS), that Apple currently doesn't have a "standard" way of doing this without the computer still being switched on. As has been noted though, there are ways round this, which include using non-Apple based streamers - there's nothing stopping you for example, storing your music in iTunes, but with your iTunes library stored on a NAS, and then using, again for example, a Sonos system to stream music direct from the NAS without requiring iTunes.

 

[Anonymous]

Whether this is done by design because Apple can't integrate this functionality (and ensure a consistent performance), or whether it's because they want to be awkward is anyone's guess - one assumes it's the former since there's little to be gained from the latter.

On the contrary, the latter fits perfectly with Apple's walled garden approach to computing. The more awkward they make interaction with third-party software, the more people will give in and use a complete vertical Apple line (since going entirely non-Apple is uncool). Which gives Apple the leverage they need to sell "consumer solutions" instead of tools.

The iPod -> iTunes -> Store enforcement gave them the market dominance to strongarm music companies

The iPhone/iPad -> Store integration gives Apple complete control over the revenue streams of third-party developers

I'm not sure what the connection is between Airplay and DLNA -- but it wouldn't be out of character for Apple to make them only one-way compatible so that they can add A/V equipment manufacturers to their list of revenue streams. The Apple TV situation is more of the same: sure you can do what you want. You just have to go completely Apple to do it...

 

[professorhat]

Whilst I see the (inevitable) point you're trying to make, it doesn't really fit in with these circumstances. What we're talking about is Apple not enabling the streaming of an iTunes library stored on another Apple device (namely the Time Capsule) without having a PC or Mac running iTunes switched on. There is no gain for Apple from preventing this - they don't sell some other device which does allow this. So even with a complete Apple setup, it is still impossible to achieve this.

So my assumption therefore is there is a technical issue in doing this - whether that is because they can't guarantee a consistent performance, or whether they might compromise some other functionality from doing so, I've no idea. The idea that they restrict it out of pure spite seems far fetched, but I know there are some ardent Apple haters out there - if this is what you think, hey, knock yourself out.

 

[Anonymous]

ok, fair enough. Missed the point then. But only slightly, because you still need iTunes (instead of any digital media server software) to stream to ATV (right?)

The Time Capsule is a storage device, if I remember correctly. So while it may contain an iTunes library, it's not iTunes (server) software.

 

[professorhat]

Erm... yes. That was the point.

 

[Anonymous]

I bought an Apple TV recently and my partner thought I'd made a mistake . . . until I turned it on and started showing her photos from our holiday on our 42" TV - followed by some YouTube clips - then downloading a film for us to watch - while all the while flicking around between different tracks of music. She happily took back her point about making a mistake.

Okay, it is a bit gimmicky (and the film took about a week to load - it felt like!) but you get my point. It's meant that I can just stream any of my music, videos and photos on my MacBook Pro through to my TV (I sound like an Apple advert!). Plus, while it's not as good as what I used to get through my Virgin box, I can download some movies to watch through itunes. Yes, I do need my Macbook on with itunes running but this is normally on and running from morning to night anyway (the mac normally goes to 'sleep' after a few mins of not being used - must admit I've never run upstairs to check whether it wakes back up when I use Apple TV or stays asleep?).

While most of us can't throw money around these days I personally wouldn't say you've wasted your money - while Apple TV isn't something I needed, the ability to stream my music, photos, videos, YouTube etc. through to play through my TV set-up is something I was willing to pay the £89 for.

 

[roger06]

The value in ATV2 is when you jail break it and put XBMC on it.

I've done this, and can now stream from a NAS drive with no computer needing to be on , as well as not being tied in to Apple supported video formats.

My ATV is probaly the best money I've ever spent! (£65 for me as I bought it from a friend who got it in the US!)

 

[PJ1200]

I bought an Apple TV recently and my partner thought I'd made a mistake . . . until I turned it on and started showing her photos from our holiday on our 42" TV - followed by some YouTube clips - then downloading a film for us to watch - while all the while flicking around between different tracks of music. She happily took back her point about making a mistake.

Okay, it is a bit gimmicky (and the film took about a week to load - it felt like!) but you get my point. It's meant that I can just stream any of my music, videos and photos on my MacBook Pro through to my TV (I sound like an Apple advert!). Plus, while it's not as good as what I used to get through my Virgin box, I can download some movies to watch through itunes. Yes, I do need my Macbook on with itunes running but this is normally on and running from morning to night anyway (the mac normally goes to 'sleep' after a few mins of not being used - must admit I've never run upstairs to check whether it wakes back up when I use Apple TV or stays asleep?).

While most of us can't throw money around these days I personally wouldn't say you've wasted your money - while Apple TV isn't something I needed, the ability to stream my music, photos, videos, YouTube etc. through to play through my TV set-up is something I was willing to pay the £89 for.

Well it has arrived this morning, so we'll find out tonight when I try and get it up and running! From experience of my AEX I bet it isn't as straight forward as I expect!

The AppleTV lends itself (perhaps) more to a macbookpro rather than a desktop, given you can just switch it on easily in the living room, rather than run upstairs and turn on a computer. At the moment my 5 year old PC takes approximately one calendar month to boot up! So it's going to be frustrating in the interim!!

I do think it has the potential to be impressive - streaming photos for example. But my music is streamed to my hifi via AEX so I'm not sure I'll have much use for anything else... what this space!

Cheers all for your opinions - good and bad.

 

[AnotherJoe]

If, as some point in the future you plan on streaming movies (such as dvd/blu-ray rips) then you will need to get a streamer such as a A.C.Ryan playon HD2, popcorn hour, wdlive etc.

An appletv is quite poor when it comes to streaming video files.