Anyone heard an audionote dac? Trying to get my streamer to sound like my Marantz cd63ki2

[shafesk]

Anyone heard any dac from audionote? They seem to be made using old school dac chips, which arguably sound better or atleast less clinical than today's dacs. My problem is that my dacmagic sounds too harsh with bad recordings and the dac in my denon sounds too boring. I really don't care about specs and what resolution a dac plays, I just want it to be musical! Reccomendations welcome.

Regards,

Shafin

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Audio Note uses a R2R type of DAC chip. your Marantz uses a DeltaSigma type (I believe in times when that 63 ki was young Delta Sigma was just starting or not much sooner than that). so, at least in theory, AN will sound better. R2R DA conversion get closest as possible to application of Nyquist theory, which in layman's terms means, yes, more organic/ analog-like sound. but don't mistake it for boring or rolled off. a big advantage of Delta Sigma DACs is that they offer superior measured performance and they can be manufactured cheaply but are responsible for what people refer to as "digital glare".

if you want to know more read some reviews on R2R type DACs. especially the non oversampling and digital filterless lot.

other reasonably priced commercial options to consider? Metrum Acoustics Octave Dac.

 

[CnoEvil]

I had an AN 2.1x Sig out for a while, fed by my Linn DS.

It didn't do what I wanted in the context of my system. I think it works brilliantly with an AN system, and maybe even in a "Tube based" system, but I preferred my DS.

I was told that the Black Gate capacitors take an age to settle down and sound right, but it was too expensive to take a chance on it.

 

[Singslinger]

An affordable, warm-sounding DAC worth exploring is the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC. Higher up the range is the M6 DAC but IMO the M1 is a worthwhile starting point.

 

[shafesk]

Audio Note uses a R2R type of DAC chip. your Marantz uses a DeltaSigma type (I believe in times when that 63 ki was young Delta Sigma was just starting or not much sooner than that). so, at least in theory, AN will sound better. R2R DA conversion get closest as possible to application of Nyquist theory, which in layman's terms means, yes, more organic/ analog-like sound. but don't mistake it for boring or rolled off. a big advantage of Delta Sigma DACs is that they offer superior measured performance and they can be manufactured cheaply but are responsible for what people refer to as "digital glare".

if you want to know more read some reviews on R2R type DACs. especially the non oversampling and digital filterless lot.

other reasonably priced commercial options to consider? Metrum Acoustics Octave Dac.

It is interesting to read about your insight into dacs, I have no engineering background but I do love to read about the technology that goes into hi-fi if it can be dummed down to my level. You say that R2R DA chips are responsible for digital glare but actually I find the cd 63 to be the least digital sounding component I have owned. It would sound like a turntable had it a bit more bottom end. I do love it and if I could get something that sounds just like that with a bit of bass oomph then I would be a happy man. As I've mentioned, I really don't care what resolution filesmy dac can play, I simply want great analogue sound. I will have a look at the Mertrum dac and see what others are saying about it. Thank you for your recommendation.

Regards,

Shafin

 

[shafesk]

I had an AN 2.1x Sig out for a while, fed by my Linn DS.

It didn't do what I wanted in the context of my system. I think it works brilliantly with an AN system, and maybe even in a "Tube based" system, but I preferred my DS.

I was told that the Black Gate capacitors take an age to settle down and sound right, but it was too expensive to take a chance on it.

Hi Cno,

I do have a tube based system, I was wondering you could tell me in more detail how it sounded and what sound it would add and also what you didn't like about it?

Regards,

Shafin

 

[shafesk]

An affordable, warm-sounding DAC worth exploring is the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC. Higher up the range is the M6 DAC but IMO the M1 is a worthwhile starting point.

Thank you for the recommendation, I do love MF stuff and they usually have that analogue sound nailed. I will have to do a demo.

Regards,

Shafin

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi Cno,

I do have a tube based system, I was wondering you could tell me in more detail how it sounded and what sound it would add and also what you didn't like about it?

Regards,

Shafin

The Dac was brand new and Martin of AN allowed me to keep it for about 3 weeks.

Being fed by the Linn, it sounded livelier and more detailed (than the Linn), with ambient information in the mix being more prevalent.....but suprisingly, I found the music a little strident when the volume was turned up, compared to the Linns very "civilized" presentation.

It didn't do what I was hoping, which was to bring a euphoric "tubyness" to the proceedings.....and TBF Martin warned me that it might be a little "hit and miss".

If you are looking at AN speakers down the road, and taken along with your valve amp, I suspect it would work well for you. Just remember two things:

1] It is supposed to take an age to "burn in".

2] It can't handle 24/192

 

[shafesk]

thank you for letting me know, I do like the more detailed part...I think it might then do wonders with my denon. I would have to keep the effects of increasing volume in mind, I shouldn't be compromising on a dac this expensive, perhaps listening to a burned in unit will do the trick.

Regards,

Shafin

 

[DocG]

other reasonably priced commercial options to consider? Metrum Acoustics Octave Dac.

I will have a look at the Mertrum dac and see what others are saying about it.

Hi Shafin,

IMO, a problem with the Metrum DACs is that they cannot be auditioned before you buy. Only sell on-line, and as far as I know, there is no money-back warranty. So you would have to take the plunge...

Having said that, if you are willing to take the plunge, the website mentions a special offer (Octave at € 575 ex VAT); they don't say how long this offer will last, though, nor what the "normal" price is (I thought some € 670 ex VAT). You could always mail Cees Ruijtenberg; I got a swift and to-the-point answer, when I did last summer.

Oldric,

I'm unimpeded by expertise in the subject... I read somewhere that the Metrum DACs (NOS DACs in general?) rely more on a top notch transport to sound good, compared to other DACs. Could you comment? (if it's utter non-sense, feel free to say so ).

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I find the cd 63 to be the least digital sounding component I have owned.

so I heard that Marantz CDPs sound more easy on your ear but the true difference is when you can combine the balls with delicacy. as they say "iron fist in a velvet glove". that's what analog is all about. making things sound cozy is just that but shouldn't be aimed for IMO.

 

[CnoEvil]

but the true difference is when you can combine the balls with delicacy. as they say "iron fist in a velvet glove". that's what analog is all about.

Great description.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Oldric,

I'm unimpeded by expertise in the subject... I read somewhere that the Metrum DACs (NOS DACs in general?) rely more on a top notch transport to sound good, compared to other DACs. Could you comment? (if it's utter non-sense, feel free to say so ).

it's not really about NOS DACs being source dependent because they are NOS DACs. it's more about the fact that they rarely have data buffer on input. so yes, Metrum is transport vulnerable. I don't know if all NOS R2Rs are like that but the ones I'm aware of are transport vulnerable. in other words you need a transport with good jitter performance to make them perform at their best.

in the context of the thread I'd think that Denon should be a good enough transport. you wouldn't need much jitter suppressing technology in your DAC to make it sound good fed by a Denon streamer.

 

[DocG]

Oldric,

I'm unimpeded by expertise in the subject... I read somewhere that the Metrum DACs (NOS DACs in general?) rely more on a top notch transport to sound good, compared to other DACs. Could you comment? (if it's utter non-sense, feel free to say so ).

it's not really about NOS DACs being source dependent because they are NOS DACs. it's more about the fact that they rarely have data buffer on input. so yes, Metrum is transport vulnerable. I don't know if all NOS R2Rs are like that but the ones I'm aware of are transport vulnerable. in other words you need a transport with good jitter performance to make them perform at their best.

in the context of the thread I'd think that Denon should be a good enough transport. you wouldn't need much jitter suppressing technology in your DAC to make it sound good fed by a Denon streamer.

And fed by a Sonos Connect? Sounds like a nice small system in my mind: Connect - Octave - Simply Italy - (speakers still undecided)... What do you think?

 

[CnoEvil]

And fed by a Sonos Connect? Sounds like a nice small system in my mind: Connect - Octave - Simply Italy - (speakers still undecided)... What do you think?

I know what I think. :bounce:

Speakers - AN or JM Reynaud. :read:

 

[DocG]

And fed by a Sonos Connect? Sounds like a nice small system in my mind: Connect - Octave - Simply Italy - (speakers still undecided)... What do you think?

I know what I think. :bounce:

Speakers - AN or JM Reynaud. :read:

Yeah, but really far away for an audition (ask Alex)...

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

And fed by a Sonos Connect? Sounds like a nice small system in my mind: Connect - Octave - Simply Italy - (speakers still undecided)... What do you think?

yeah, that does sound like a nice system. although if you were considering Magnepans I'd steer away from Simply Italy. SE tube amps is not the way to go there.

 

[DocG]

And fed by a Sonos Connect? Sounds like a nice small system in my mind: Connect - Octave - Simply Italy - (speakers still undecided)... What do you think?

yeah, that does sound like a nice system. although if you were considering Magnepans I'd steer away from Simply Italy. SE tube amps is not the way to go there.

I remember: Maggies - high current AB amp ... but this little Unison sounds so sweet, I'm now convincing myself (and my wife, in a later stage) that I might need (need! Haha) a nice little, simple (pun intended) system upstairs!

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

And fed by a Sonos Connect? Sounds like a nice small system in my mind: Connect - Octave - Simply Italy - (speakers still undecided)... What do you think?

yeah, that does sound like a nice system. although if you were considering Magnepans I'd steer away from Simply Italy. SE tube amps is not the way to go there.

I remember: Maggies - high current AB amp ... but this little Unison sounds so sweet, I'm now convincing myself (and my wife, in a later stage) that I might need (need! Haha) a nice little, simple (pun intended) system upstairs!

if you crave tubes you might consider some ballsier designs than just SE. German Octave has great reputation for sound and reliability. they make push-pull in pentode mode amps. 100W-a-side from a pair of KT120 as in RE 290 should be good enough, I reckon. (this, I wish, would be my next amp if I upgrade). or American Music Fidelity RM-200 has very good reputation as well and 100Wpc from a pair of KT88 (but not so much eye candy )

IIRC you live in the Netherlands. I'd imagine you should be able to get a demo of Octave over there. I long to listen to them in action. if only I wasn't living in such a hi-fi desert...

 

[DocG]

if you crave tubes you might consider some ballsier designs than just SE. German Octave has great reputation for sound and reliability. they make push-pull in pentode mode amps. 100W-a-side from a pair of KT120 as in RE 290 should be good enough, I reckon. (this, I wish, would be my next amp if I upgrade). or American Music Fidelity RM-200 has very good reputation as well and 100Wpc from a pair of KT88 (but not so much eye candy )

IIRC you live in the Netherlands. I'd imagine you should be able to get a demo of Octave over there. I long to listen to them in action. if only I wasn't living in such a hi-fi desert...

I live in Belgium; Octave is indeed available in several Dutch hifi shops, one of which is within reach (well, sort of...), at some 150 km. More good news: this shop also stocks Audio Note and Adam, two brands I'd really like to hear the speakers of. I'll send them a mail to hear what they have in demo. Thanks for the tip!

Not sure I can find the American amp you mention; some more googling to do first...

PS1: I recently had very mixed experience with Magnepan (http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/the-speaker-quest-continues; page 2, first post); any idea what could have gone wrong?

PS2: out of curiosity: what 'desert' do you live in? Could it be worse than Belgium?

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

PS1: I recently had very mixed experience with Magnepan (http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/the-speaker-quest-continues; page 2, first post); any idea what could have gone wrong?

PS2: out of curiosity: what 'desert' do you live in? Could it be worse than Belgium?

sorry Doc, I haven't reply sooner as I haven't seen your reply earlier and I only saw it now by chance.

re. P.S.1: I've got MG12. I must say I like those speakers and I rate them above all box speakers I heard to date. however, I must also admit that it's sort of love-hate relationship with them. every time I listen to them I'm pretty much convinced it's only a small bite of a bigger whole what planar technology has to offer. I really wish to have a chance to check out a true ribbon design from Magnepan - 3.7 or 20.7. I have a gut feeling that 3.7 should be a major step-up over MG12. therefore I'm not surprised you found MG12 not to your liking.

another reason might be that the speakers were not broken in. Maggies need a lot more time to fully break in compared to dynamic speakers. before that happens they would sound stringent and less full.

third reason is, unfortunately, poor quality of the speaker itself. you must remember that MG12 is only the entry level speaker. planars are more difficult to mass produce it that you need a lot of labour-hours to manufacture them. there's no prefabricated drivers and no flat packed enclosures. therefore corners had to be cut somewhere. MG 12 notoriously suffers from poor xover components. many people report big improvements in SQ when going up-market with xover components on MG12. I too have this idea on my mind. I already have a new xover schematic. I only need to buy new components. but it's not cheep project. good quality polyprop caps and ribbon inductors needed for that xover cost more than many mid level monitors (which also should speak volumes on quality of those products).

re. P.S.2: I live in south of Ireland. believe me it's hard to have it worse than that