Another Beresford DAC question

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OK, so now I'm thoroughly confused. There are the Beresford TC-7520, the Caiman - which is described as a the TC-7520SE by Beresford's own site - and the Caiman+ - which is described as the "Twin Toslink version of the Caiman". What's the difference between these three [^o)]. I'm fairly confident that the only difference between the Caiman and the Caiman+ is the USB port being replaced by a second Toslink. But the 7520 vs. the Caiman has me a little stumped. Especially when you open up the link to the TC-7520 manual and up pops the "Caiman Instruction Manual" [:S]
Anyone help me here?

 

[True Blue]

Yes you are correct reference the Caiman and the Caiman +.

AFAIK the TC-7520 was able to be modified with better op-amps, capacitors etc. Stan used to do this as well as DIYers. Demand became so popular that he made a LTD edition version of the TC-7520 with all the upgrades prefitted - the Caiman. Again demand outstripped the limited supply so the Caiman then became a permanent product.

Hope this helps

 

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Thanks for that true blue! That does make things a lot clearer

 

[Anonymous]

To be a bit more specific about the difference between the TC-7520 and CAIMAN, the CAIMAN has:

1. A Wolfson WM8716 DAC chip at its heart. The TC-7520 has BurrBrown PCM1716 DAC.

2. The CAIMAN audio pcb board incorporates several refinements cf the TC-7520 and suppsoedly improved headphone listening over the stock TC-7520..

3. The CAIMAN has a beefier (better quality?) 15V psu.

4. Better op amps as standard (LM4562)

Two popular mods for the CAIMAN are (a) the gator baord, which gives you a discrete lineout instead of going through an op amp and (b) upgraded voltage regulators and some caps.

You can get (a) from Beresford and (b) is DIY or 3rd party modder.

Personally, I'd go for a CAIMAN if you can afford the extra. A lot of TC-7520 owners, which inlcudes me, were left with a nasty "twist or stick" decision once the CAIMAN appeared. CAIMAN + gator board seems to be hot right now. Google for it.

 

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Thanks BrightSpark for that really comprehensive answer

As a TC-7520 owner - how do you find it?

 

[Anonymous]

It's my first DAC so I cannot offer any comparisons. For the moeny, it's v.good bit of kit. It's a DAC + decent headphone amp + pre-amp all in one box. I added two LM4562 op amps to my TC-7520 which gives it a bit of a lift, but no other mods.

I don't have golden ears, but cannot really distinguish between the optical out or USB connection from my PC. I use the variable output of the TC-7520 direct to a Quad 306 power amp which is connected to a pair of AVI Neutrons. I listen fairly near field in I suppose what you'd call a desktop setup. My taste is for classical music, especially renaissance polyphony, baroque and classical.

The TC-7520 + LM4562 op-amps seems to have a good tonal balance and retrieves a good level of detail. Instruments sound realistic and vocals very lifelike. I think the TC-7520 is as good for a two channel hifi setup as it is for AV apps and as part of a computer/digital audio setup. Lot's of folks use them with squeezebox/touch. Stuff on youtube and even lower bitrate mp3 internet (128Kbps) sound
pretty good via the DAC and 192Kbps or above is very good. It won't be disgraced if partnered with quality kit. And, let's not forget the Caiman is even better.

They seem to hold a godd resale value. so in the end apart from the Beresford sale or return offer, you'd shouldn't have much trouble moving it on should it not live up to expectations.

2011 could be the year of a new DAC for me, the latest Beresford DAC will be on my list.

 

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Thanks again for that

 

[Anonymous]

I have the 7520 unmodded and the Caiman on different systems. Both do a great job. I'm in the market for a DAC upgrade and the Rega Dac is capturing me BUT it doesn't do hi res via usb . Odd given the direction of travel with PC computer based music and streaming.

So has anyone compared the Caiman with the Rega? maybe I need to go up at level to get a DAC with the USB hi res upsampling ? But that's another few hundred.at least. I could get a MF Dac link for less than a hundred to do the job into the Rega Dac for me from USB to SPDIF - but that's another box ( albeit small )

Hi res music, stored or streamed , isn't everything but it's going to become standard ? Comments....

System 1 Astin Trew CD 3500+ , Astin Trew Pre/ Power, Dell PC Beresford 7520, Neat Elite, QED XT

System 2 Nait CD5X, Flatcap2x, NAIT XS, Samsung Laptop, Beresford Caiman Spendor A6, Naca 5

 

[Anonymous]

I've not read any "real world" users give an A/B comparison of the Caiman and Rega DACs. Nor have I read any comments from the developers of the Rega DAC which give their views on USB audio. Rega tend to follow their own path and may have had a particular market in mind and would also be aware that USB audio is a bit of a moving target. Hence there is only a basic 16bit 32-48KHz USB input on their DAC. Mind you, neither does MF's latest DAC nor the SimAudio 100D or the SimAudio 300D have hi-res usb. It is interesting to read what Sim Audio have to say about USB audio on thier website,

I've quoted it here for convience (note to mods: please remove if I broken a rule):

An important note about the USB input

The USB input on the MOON 100D accepts a digital audio signal of up to 16-bits/48kHz. This is the native
specification of the USB input. However, if you require a higher sampling rate, there are ways to achieve
this with the 100D.

Rather than including a USB input for sampling rates exceeeding 48kHz, we opted to provide the best possible
power supply, D/A converter and analog stage in the MOON 100D at this price level. Also, keep in mind
that USB wasn't originally intended for use with hi-resolution audio; there are latency issues which compromise
sound quality (i.e. jitter and phase errors, etc.). These could be minimized through dedicated costly circuitry,
but this would significantly drive up the cost of the 100D without improving the sonic performance on any
of the other inputs.

If you intend to use the MOON 100D's USB input, it's very likely that your computer is a data source for music.
Today most computers with a built-in sound card will have either an S/PDIF (RCA connector) or Toslink
(optical connector) digital audio output, thus eliminating the need for a USB input on the 100D.
Furthermore, if you're committed to getting the most out of the music stored on your computer, then in all
likelihood you have installed an after-market soundcard in your computer. Virtually all of these soundcards
have at least one S/PDIF, Optical or AES/EBU (XLR connector) digital output. At this point, USB connectivity
becomes irrelevant. The USB input is there for convenience as opposed to performance.

In the event that you wish to use your computer's USB connection with files greater than 48kHz, there are
several relatively inexpensive after-market products; compact one-box USB-to-S/PDIF interfaces that will
work with USB datastreams up to 24-bit, all the way up to 192kHz.
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Of course, others trumpet asynch USB as the answer to evrything and that hi-rez is a must have. Perhaps the Rega DAC plus a MF V-link is the answer, but we'll have to wait a while for a decent level of feedback on just how good or otherwise the MF USB-to-S/PDIF converter actually is. Or it's a case of waiting for the Audiolab 8200DQ. In any case, you certainly have the sort of kit that could benefit from a DAC upgrade. It's all down to what kind of money you have to invest in a new device and auditioning all the alternatives.