High Fidelity Streaming

[CnoEvil]

FWIW. I would be looking at the Linn DS / DSM range.

 

[Overdose]

ever have the feeling everybody is talking around you about something completely different to your conversation?

It usually happens some time or another in a thread, you get used to it.

Back on topic, are you near anyone that might be happy for you to have a listen to the ADms?

 

[matt49]

ever have the feeling everybody is talking around you about something completely different to your conversation?

It usually happens some time or another in a thread, you get used to it.

Back on topic, are you near anyone that might be happy for you to have a listen to the ADms?

Sometimes this forum is hard to distinguish from Keeping up with the Kardashians. :wall:

If you're anywhere near London, Bartletts on the Holloway Road have the ADMs on demo, and you could compare them with Dynaudio actives.

 

[The_Lhc]

Sometimes this forum is hard to distinguish from Keeping up with the Kardashians. :wall:

I'd be amazed if you could find anyone here that would understand what you're trying to say with that reference.

Oh, hang on: GEL!!!!! What's he talking about?

 

[jjgreenwood]

I'm within 50 miles of the adm/avi factory/head office but am put off a little bit by everything being a mobile number for my local dealers. I'm not looking for homemade stuff, not that I think that would be rubbish. I just like having warranties and proper companies rather than one man band kind of companies. The avi stuff strikes me as a couple of mates getting a factory to make their design and hitting the forums to sell it.

It is possible I'm no giving ashley etc due credit but that is how it appears. I'm nervous about meeting him just so he can give me a sales pitch for a £2200 product. I'm also sceptical about the £149 upgrade available for the tweeters as £149 sounds like a lot of money for an upgrade. As nobody will hear the difference between one without it and one with it I wouldn't be surprised if the £149 is a bit of extra margin for manufacturer.

The marketing and the whole sales programme for avi/adm9 makes me nervous even though the tech seems to make sense.

 

[Craig M.]

The ADMs are fabulous speakers, they get even better with the addition of the sub. If you visit AVI, you won't just be given a sales pitch, you'll sit down in Ashleys house and listen to the speakers yourself. Take your own kit along to compare if you like. They are not 'home made stuff', and they come with a proper warranty. The Scanspeak tweeter option includes one of the best tweeters you can buy and it is not cheap, Ashley would probably prefer you to buy the cheaper one as they have a load of the standard tweeters that nobody wants because everyone is going for the Scanspeak tweeter. AVI are a well established company who used to make very well regarded seperates and speakers that were available through traditional dealers, now they are a well established company who make very well regarded active speakers with built-in dac and pre amp that are available through selected dealers or direct from AVI themselves. You're 50 miles away, give them a ring or send an email and book a demo, then you can see for yourself.

One of my relations has ADMs, they easily kept pace with my £7000 Chord and ATC system I had at the time. If he'd had the sub back then (as he does now), the ADM system would've wiped the floor with it.

 

[Overdose]

I'm within 50 miles of the adm/avi factory/head office but am put off a little bit by everything being a mobile number for my local dealers. I'm not looking for homemade stuff, not that I think that would be rubbish. I just like having warranties and proper companies rather than one man band kind of companies. The avi stuff strikes me as a couple of mates getting a factory to make their design and hitting the forums to sell it.

It is possible I'm no giving ashley etc due credit but that is how it appears. I'm nervous about meeting him just so he can give me a sales pitch for a £2200 product. I'm also sceptical about the £149 upgrade available for the tweeters as £149 sounds like a lot of money for an upgrade. As nobody will hear the difference between one without it and one with it I wouldn't be surprised if the £149 is a bit of extra margin for manufacturer.

The marketing and the whole sales programme for avi/adm9 makes me nervous even though the tech seems to make sense.

I think you misunderstand the product and company.

As mentioned, AVI are well established and have been making hifi components for years. The products seem generally highly regarded.

Re. the £149 tweeters, if you want top notch drivers in your speakers, then they will cost.

HERE are a few examples.

Whether or not you consider them to be worth the extra is another matter entirely.

 

[cheeseboy]

I'm not looking for homemade stuff, not that I think that would be rubbish. I just like having warranties and proper companies rather than one man band kind of companies.

the homemade stuff is usually much better than mass produced as they don't have the overheads that big businesses do so can afford to put in those bits that make things good, rather than having to cut costs in order to meet strict budgets to keep the company running as it were. Warranties would still apply under the sales of goods act. So, the only thing getting in the way, is imho, an unfair view of what you think you get from a "proper" company over people focusing on one particular product.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

If you are interested in looklng at active speakers there are several options available.

Dynaudio make active speakers and also wireless one in the Xeos range. These will have a different take on the sound to the AVIs, and will be easier to compare since there are many more Dynaudio dealers than the limited AVI options.

There are also the professional active speakers, such as Adams, Krk, Genelec and others, which can be heard at professional sound shops. These are mostly designed as near field monitors, as in not designed for larger domestic rooms, but do nevertheless work well.

Bear in mind that many actives, including the AVIs, have limited RCA inputs. That means you couldn't use an external DAC, CD player, turntable, etc without a switching box.

On the other hand, there are speakers such as the Magnepans which cost around the £1400 mark and will comfortably out-perform many speakers, both active and passive. They do need space and, though flat, are large.

Other speakers to consider would be the Neat Elites, but they are getting up in price.

 

[Overdose]

Bear in mind that many actives, including the AVIs, have limited RCA inputs. That means you couldn't use an external DAC, CD player, turntable, etc without a switching box.

How many inputs do you need and why would you need an external DAC when you have a perfectly good internal DAC/preamp?

The inputs shown below should adequately cover your concerns.

PS. Most active speakers have no inputs at all except for a pair of line level connections from a preamp or variable line level source, so depending on alternative choice of active speakers, a controller or preamp would be needed.

 

[jjgreenwood]

It looks like I might have to make an appointment with avi then. It wouldn't be the end of the world if it only had 1 input as the TV will put out the signal for all my sources, its becoming more of a decision between traditional hifi all in one box or active speakers.

 

[davedotco]

A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Interestingly the recent 'buzz' is that with many modern dacs the difference is less noticeable, perhaps they are getting better at jitter and noise reduction?

 

[The_Lhc]

A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Output, but not support 24-bit, it's just upsampling: Because of inherent system limitations, neither the standard not modified units will process 24/96, 24/176.2 or 24/192 files.

 

[Overdose]

I think a trip to listen to the AVIs would be worthwhile, even if to discount them if they are not to your tastes.

I also think that far too much is made of the differences between digital sources and I simply cannot believe any 'night and day' claims made for them. I have tried several DACs and all are much of a muchness, with function being the single biggest factor for the decision to buy.

 

[Overdose]

A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Output, but not support 24-bit, it's just upsampling: Because of inherent system limitations, neither the standard not modified units will process 24/96, 24/176.2 or 24/192 files.

Personally, I believe hi-res material to be a bit of a red herring and the only usefulness would be if you already have a decent selection of the format.

That though, is another topic entirely (and one done to death already).

 

[The_Lhc]

A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Output, but not support 24-bit, it's just upsampling: Because of inherent system limitations, neither the standard not modified units will process 24/96, 24/176.2 or 24/192 files.

Personally, I believe hi-res material to be a bit of a red herring and the only usefulness would be if you already have a decent selection of the format.

Yes, but the point I was making was that if you did have a decent selection of 24-bit material, these modified Sonos Connects still won't play it.

 

[Overdose]

A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Output, but not support 24-bit, it's just upsampling: Because of inherent system limitations, neither the standard not modified units will process 24/96, 24/176.2 or 24/192 files.

Personally, I believe hi-res material to be a bit of a red herring and the only usefulness would be if you already have a decent selection of the format.

Yes, but the point I was making was that if you did have a decent selection of 24-bit material, these modified Sonos Connects still won't play it.

Indeed.

 

[jjgreenwood]

A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Output, but not support 24-bit, it's just upsampling: Because of inherent system limitations, neither the standard not modified units will process 24/96, 24/176.2 or 24/192 files.

Personally, I believe hi-res material to be a bit of a red herring and the only usefulness would be if you already have a decent selection of the format.

Yes, but the point I was making was that if you did have a decent selection of 24-bit material, these modified Sonos Connects still won't play it.

My TV and basic £200 beresford dac does. I have to say if the TV does I find it odd a lot of this high end hifi doesn't, and in some cases needs an expensive upgrade to make it compatable.

 

[The_Lhc]

A few years ago, the Cullen/Wyred4Sound mods were very much the thing for the Sonos connect. A complete new clock and board with the ability to output 24/96, which the standard Sonos will not do, £499.00 from a uk dealer here.

Output, but not support 24-bit, it's just upsampling: Because of inherent system limitations, neither the standard not modified units will process 24/96, 24/176.2 or 24/192 files.

Personally, I believe hi-res material to be a bit of a red herring and the only usefulness would be if you already have a decent selection of the format.

Yes, but the point I was making was that if you did have a decent selection of 24-bit material, these modified Sonos Connects still won't play it.

My TV and basic £200 beresford dac does. I have to say if the TV does I find it odd a lot of this high end hifi doesn't, and in some cases needs an expensive upgrade to make it compatable.

I don't consider Sonos high end, as much as I love mine, and I don't think any other player priced in the £2-300 pound bracket would be considered so either. It's a question of practicality, the nearest, cheapest competitor that supports 24-bit is Simple Audio's Roomplayers and they're double the price and use powerline ethernet rather than wireless. They also don't work.

 

[DocG]

My TV and basic £200 beresford dac does. I have to say if the TV does I find it odd a lot of this high end hifi doesn't, and in some cases needs an expensive upgrade to make it compatable.

I don't consider Sonos high end, as much as I love mine, and I don't think any other player priced in the £2-300 pound bracket would be considered so either. It's a question of practicality, the nearest, cheapest competitor that supports 24-bit is Simple Audio's Roomplayers and they're double the price and use powerline ethernet rather than wireless. They also don't work.

Did anyone hear when the Bluesound stuff will hit the shops? Those should tick most of the boxes (provided they work, of course).

EDIT: found a drawback already: no Spotify.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Bear in mind that many actives, including the AVIs, have limited RCA inputs. That means you couldn't use an external DAC, CD player, turntable, etc without a switching box.

How many inputs do you need and why would you need an external DAC when you have a perfectly good internal DAC/preamp?

The inputs shown below should adequately cover your concerns.

PS. Most active speakers have no inputs at all except for a pair of line level connections from a preamp or variable line level source, so depending on alternative choice of active speakers, a controller or preamp would be needed.

I see one pair of RCA inputs for a possible 3 devices. How is that adequate? If you use a DAC, you won't want to use the optical input, and the same for the CD player if you want to use its internal DAC.

Sorry, the AVIs are really intended for computer-based systems, particularly with a mac as source. That's why they don't have enough inputs for RCA.

Edit: They're also inadequate in that regard unless, like a mac, your computer has and optical output. Where's the USB connectivity? That's a big oversight.

And, of course, it's hard to find out whether the internal DAC is any good. Really, Ashley, some more RCA inputs and USB if you want to move away from the niche market

 

[The_Lhc]

I don't consider Sonos high end, as much as I love mine, and I don't think any other player priced in the £2-300 pound bracket would be considered so either. It's a question of practicality, the nearest, cheapest competitor that supports 24-bit is Simple Audio's Roomplayers and they're double the price and use powerline ethernet rather than wireless. They also don't work.

Did anyone hear when the Bluesound stuff will hit the shops? Those should tick most of the boxes (provided they work, of course).

EDIT: found a drawback already: no Spotify.

They're available in Scandinavia already, although from what I've read the early customers are being used as alpha testers (never mind beta), apparently they're very buggy and unreliable right now.

 

[Overdose]

I see one pair of RCA inputs for a possible 3 devices. How is that adequate? If you use a DAC, you won't want to use the optical input, and the same for the CD player if you want to use its internal DAC.

Sorry, the AVIs are really intended for computer-based systems, particularly with a mac as source. That's why they don't have enough inputs for RCA.

Edit: They're also inadequate in that regard unless, like a mac, your computer has and optical output. Where's the USB connectivity? That's a big oversight.

And, of course, it's hard to find out whether the internal DAC is any good. Really, Ashley, some more RCA inputs and USB if you want to move away from the niche market

Why would anyone go and buy a separate DAC to use with the ADMs? That's like buying a Benchmark DAC1 Pre, plugging in an Audiolab M-DAC and then complaining that there are not enough analogue connections for a TT and a CD player. Pointless argument to say the least.

The speakers have two optical and one analogue input, how they are used would be down to the owner and what equipment they had, but at any rate, I'd imagine the intended use to be for someone with a couple of digital sources and one analogue. It's a bit short sighted to assume that they are 'computer speakers'. Perhaps if the interest increases in the future, USB might be re-instigated, but that rather depends on demand.

And your last point (more of the first really) How many sources do most people have? I'd say that the majority of users needs would be catered for. If you have concerns regarding the amount of RCA connections, then clearly these speakers are not for you.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Why would anyone go and buy a separate DAC to use with the ADMs? That's like buying a Benchmark DAC1 Pre, plugging in an Audiolab M-DAC and then complaining that there are not enough analogue connections for a TT and a CD player. Pointless argument to say the least.

The speakers have two optical and one analogue input, how they are used would be down to the owner and what equipment they had, but at any rate, I'd imagine the intended use to be for someone with a couple of digital sources and one analogue. It's a bit short sighted to assume that they are 'computer speakers'. Perhaps if the interest increases in the future, USB might be re-instigated, but that rather depends on demand.

And your last point (more of the first really) How many sources do most people have? I'd say that the majority of users needs would be catered for.

First point: sound quality, there are better DACs. Second point, superfluous, though at least you accept it is limiting. Third point, Ashley you often mention using a mac/ipad device to stream. Last point: people have multiple sources, there's no getting away from that.

 

[Overdose]

Why would anyone go and buy a separate DAC to use with the ADMs? That's like buying a Benchmark DAC1 Pre, plugging in an Audiolab M-DAC and then complaining that there are not enough analogue connections for a TT and a CD player. Pointless argument to say the least.

The speakers have two optical and one analogue input, how they are used would be down to the owner and what equipment they had, but at any rate, I'd imagine the intended use to be for someone with a couple of digital sources and one analogue. It's a bit short sighted to assume that they are 'computer speakers'. Perhaps if the interest increases in the future, USB might be re-instigated, but that rather depends on demand.

And your last point (more of the first really) How many sources do most people have? I'd say that the majority of users needs would be catered for.

First point: sound quality, there are better DACs. Second point, superfluous, though at least you accept it is limiting. Third point, Ashley you often mention using a mac/ipad device to stream. Last point: people have multiple sources, there's no getting away from that.

Good come back. :roll:

Edit: I'm sorry I couldn't respond with more here, but my 'altruistic.lemon nonsense' filter appears to be blocked.

Normal operation to resume later.