Amplifiers with active crossover?

[Overdose]

I've just been doing a bit of self study on active crossovers and speakers and it occured to me that if integrated hifi amplifiers had an active crossover network built in, speakers could be a far simpler affair and the whole system would have the benefits as provided by active speakers. Granted, it would make the amps more expensive.

Are there or have there ever been any amplifiers like this?

 

[Bodfish]

Not as far as I know. The amplifier would have to be terribly complex for the user to be able to set crossover levels for different speakers that no longer contained crossovers. I can't imagine any speaker manufacturers would be interested in producing a speaker with no crossover where the drive units would be at the mercy of a third party setting crossover levels.

That is why active (speaker) systems tend to be one brand and designed that way from the ground up (ATC, Meridian etc).

 

[hammill]

I had some Arc 101 speakers. They had removable crossovers. You could buy a special version of an A&R A60 that contained the active crossover - I never did get to hear it to see how beneficial it was. The idea never seemed to catch on.

 

[Overdose]

Thanks for the replies. I've just done a bit more reading and it would appear that the active crossover section would need tuning every time the speakers were changed.

I guess that's why active crossovers are built into speaker enclosures.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I've just been doing a bit of self study on active crossovers and speakers and it occured to me that if integrated hifi amplifiers had an active crossover network built in, speakers could be a far simpler affair and the whole system would have the benefits as provided by active speakers. Granted, it would make the amps more expensive.

Are there or have there ever been any amplifiers like this?

you did some self study but it looks for me that you missed the concept.

in passive system we have: source -> preamp -> power amp (or two integrated in common chasis) -> passive crossover (splitting the sygnal from power amp to drivers) -> speaker drivers

in active system it looks like this: source -> preamp -> active crossover (splitting the sygnal from preamp to power amps driving respective drivers) -> power amps (one stereo amp or two monoblocks for each driver) -> speaker drivers

now, try to imagine how an integrated amp with active crossover would look like. for two way speakers it would be: preamp + active crossover + 2*stereo power amp (or even better 2* dual mono power amps). for a three way speakers you need to add another set of stereo power amp or dual mono amps. can you imagine the size of the box? for a two way speakers it would be like an integrated amp (say Roksan Kandy K2) stacked over a matching power amp. for three way speakers it would be integrated amp on top of two matching power amps! that's why it's easier to find active speakers which have active crossovers and appropriate numbers of power amps hidden in enclosures and they accept signal form preamp, rather than integrated amps with active crossovers.

if you want to you can build your own active system using passive speakers. you just need a preamp, external (i.e. in fancy casing) active crossover, appropriate number of power amps. you'll have to do some surgery on your speakers too because you'll have to get rid of passive crossover. and then you just conncect power amps with their respective drivers. as for setting appropriate crossing frequency on active crossover. this should cause no problem because every respectable manufacturer gives crossing frequency in spec sheet for given model of their speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

You can buy active crossover cards to fit inside Linn amplifiers, and then bypass the crossover networks in the speakers. It's great for the company, as they can sell you more power amplifiers.

I think Technics used to do a mini system which had the crossover built into the amp, and four leads going to each speaker.

 

[Overdose]

I've just been doing a bit of self study on active crossovers and speakers and it occured to me that if integrated hifi amplifiers had an active crossover network built in, speakers could be a far simpler affair and the whole system would have the benefits as provided by active speakers. Granted, it would make the amps more expensive.

Are there or have there ever been any amplifiers like this?

you did some self study but it looks for me that you missed the concept.

Not really. The concept of an active system is to eliminate the inherant problems with passive crossovers.

The reduction in box sizes or number of boxes is the result of the implementation of the solution, ie, put everything into the speaker boxes.

Without causing handbags at dawn, my next question is, how does an active system stack up sound quality wise against comparably priced passive kit?

 

[CnoEvil]

I've just been doing a bit of self study on active crossovers and speakers and it occured to me that if integrated hifi amplifiers had an active crossover network built in, speakers could be a far simpler affair and the whole system would have the benefits as provided by active speakers. Granted, it would make the amps more expensive.

Are there or have there ever been any amplifiers like this?

you did some self study but it looks for me that you missed the concept.

Not really. The concept of an active system is to eliminate the inherant problems with passive crossovers.

The reduction in box sizes or number of boxes is the result of the implementation of the solution, ie, put everything into the speaker boxes.

Without causing handbags at dawn, my next question is, how does an active system stack up sound quality wise against comparably priced passive kit?

Active (speakers) can stack up very well indeed, but you need to choose carefully, as the flexibility to swap componants is reduced.

On the other hand, speaker cables are taken out of the equation, and synergy is made easier.

 

[Overdose]

What is the general connectivity like with active speakers?

I've seen several pictures of actives, but could see no indication of how many inputs there are usually available. I would presume just one input on studio monitors, but perhaps more with some flexible hifi types?

Are actives generally just the power amp section, leaving the preamp as external.

Sorry for the continual questions, but this is new to me.

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm probably not the best person to answer this, as there are owners of active speakers on here. I've only listened to some, but haven't looked round the back....but never one to be daunted, here is what I know (or think I know).

The ones that I heard were fairly high end:

Linn Klimax Active (around £29000). They were impressive, and sounded a lot better than Klimax seperates (which I don't like), but saying that, if I had that amount to spend, it wouldn't be on these.

Meridian DSP7200 (around £17500 - I think). Now those I liked much better..but it's a great deal of money.

I think actives come in different forms. eg The Meridians have the whole thing built in and I think the Linns only have the power amps (see above poster).
I also think the Linns can be "partly active", but don't take that as gospel.

Further down the price ladder, a good case can be made for active AVI, Dynaudio, ATC and the like.

This may have been no help, but it's the best I can do, with limited experince in this area.

 

[BenLaw]

Most actives will have only one input - it's the equivalent of your power amp, so you'd only expect one. Ordinarily you would connect a pre-amp to them, so the pre-amp has all the inputs on it. Of course, you could connect a source directly, as long as you were able to control the volume, say with a passive volume control.

You asked how do active stack up against passive. The answer is very well. The active rather than passive crossover is a big advantage, as is the lack of speaker cable and the proximity of amplification to driver. Plus the amplification is designed to match the driver perfectly. Of course, that means you cannot change it later.

To illustrate the advanatages, I've recently seen a review in a German mag (obviously can't link to it) comparing the active ATC SCM50 with the passive version powered by a pair of Ayre MX-R monoblocks. These were the magazine's reference amps and cost $16,500 per pair, more than the ATC actives on their own. Both measured very well, but the actives overall were slightly better. This is why many people consider actives a bargain

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

To illustrate the advanatages, I've recently seen a review in a German mag (obviously can't link to it) comparing the active ATC SCM50 with the passive version powered by a pair of Ayre MX-R monoblocks. These were the magazine's reference amps and cost $16,500 per pair, more than the ATC actives on their own.

that would indicate that Ayre's gear is well overpiced. and that shouldn't be much surprising since it seems that hi-fi enthusiasts out there in America tend to love big and expensive gear. I think any well engineered class AB amp should be a match for either Ayre or ATC's amps (they're AB class). but since active system has some advantages over passive system especially in terms of power distribution to drivers it would sound better.

however, I'd like to see what the observations would be if those Ayre amps were replaced with some great class A amps... Pathos Adrenalin or Musical Fidelity AMS 100 spring to mind now... 🙂

 

[Anonymous]

My Avi Adm 9.1's have two Toslink(optical) connections and one set of anolog. Some people use a cheap optical switch to add more imput options.
Nick

 

[the record spot]

Hi Nick, welcome back, didn't think we'd see you round these parts any more...did you find the doors to the broader church hard to resist after a while?

I wonder if we can look forward to a more comprehensive smattering of inputs in future versions of the ADM9.1T (or whatever the next version will be labelled if and when they're next improved)? Given that Yamaha and Onkyo are sticking more on their home cinema receivers, there's a recognition out there of the need for them; I wonder what scope there is on the ADM product.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Record Spot I've always been around but not posting as much! I believe the new Adm40's will have more inputs and more functionality but do not know what at this time. Nick

Ps I did cancel my mag subscription !