amp current....

[Anonymous]

oh pp, stop being so proper, lighten up will you

..

rick told me on here a few weeks back that he was running the as-500 dm 2/7 combo, and he was very impressed by it, i am also very impressed with it, as ive said about a hundred times...

your being silly now...

 

[plastic penguin]

maxflinn:

oh pp, stop being so proper, lighten up will you

..

rick told me on here a few weeks back that he was running the as-500 dm 2/7 combo, and he was very impressed by it, i am also very impressed with it, as ive said about a hundred times...

your being silly now...

Not being silly at all - very sensible in fact. How many times have you changed or upgraded your amps this year alone?

You've used the old chestnut in previous upgrades about wanting to familiarise yourself with different systems, as you've little experience.

Deciding what sound you like isn't rocket science nor is it down to experience. You either like the sound of something or you don't... It's a little freaky you'll take the word of someone that works probably 400 miles across the Irish sea.

Only time will whether this is an ad hoc question or if there's a more general reason.

I think there's people on here who actually care, including myself, and although we wouldn't or couldn't stop you from spending your own money, I personally shudder you may commit a big faux pas.

 

[Frank Harvey]

plastic penguin:Where's Rick and David when you need them?
Sorry, was watching Inception.

I don't think my input will be valued much here, as I think this thread has been started due to some of my comments....

 

[Frank Harvey]

plastic penguin:Where's Rick and David when you need them?
Sorry, was watching Inception.

I don't think my input will be valued much here, as I think this thread has been started due to some of my comments....

 

[Anonymous]

pp, ill upgrade/change/swap/buy whatever i choose, as often as i choose..

i dont have/want/need/ to justify why/what/when.where or otherwise to anyone on here or anywhere...

do yourself a favour and delete the last few silly posts you have made, im going to bed in 20min, if you've deleted them by then ill delete any corresponding posts, and you wont look silly in the morning

.

g'night....

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:plastic penguin:Where's Rick and David when you need them?
Sorry, was watching Inception.

I don't think my input will be valued much here, as I think this thread has been started due to some of my comments....

hi david, yes partly due to yours and others comments and partly because id like to know if there's any way to predetermine whether a given amp should be able to drive 4ohm speakers based on spec..

im not saying your wrong btw, you've probably forgotten more than i know about hifi

, but my yammy is driving my speakers very well to my ears, and im just curious as to why other budget amps cannot also do so

edit.. btw is your brain frazzled after watching inception? mine was on friday night after id seen it

 

[plastic penguin]

maxflinn:

pp, ill upgrade/change/swap/buy whatever i choose, as often as i choose..

i dont have/want/need/ to justify why/what/when.where or otherwise to anyone on here or anywhere...

do yourself a favour and delete the last few silly posts you have made, im going to bed in 20min, if you've deleted them by then ill delete any corresponding posts, and you wont look silly in the morning

.

g'night....

If you read the last part of my thread it doesn't make me look silly at all.

"I think there's people on here who actually care, including myself, and although we wouldn't or couldn't stop you from spending your own money, I personally shudder you may commit a big faux pas."

Nightie-night.

 

[Frank Harvey]

chebby:
Remember that - in the case of Dave and Rick - they are dealers. Nice guys, no doubt of it, but they are here to sell stuff and if they can sow just a little, itsy-bitsy bit of insecurity about something (like the amount of current needed to drive your speakers) then they will.
It will gnaw away at your confidence in what you are actually hearing little by little until one day you will wake up, look at your Yamaha with contempt and hiss...
Sorry, but I don't work that way - I see that approach as dishonest. Plus, I'm not here to sell. I do this to help people, and if I wasn't working at FH, I'd be on here with my own private account saying exactly the same thing. I must be doing something right as I get many emails asking for advice on a one to one basis.

All I'm trying to do here is make sure people are getting the most from the loudspeakers they have. A couple of years ago over on another forum, I waged a war against a growing number of people buying high end speakers (purely because they had a chance of buying them cheap) and using them with £600 AV receivers. These receivers didn't have a cat in hell's chance of controlling the bass produced by these speakers, or providing them with the sort of current that was needed in order to hear them as the manufactuer intended. No one listened, so I gave up. Six months later, people are moaning their systems sounds rubbish. I'd say there's a large number of people on forums whose speakers are under performing, either due to placement, or more likely, lack of suitable amplification.

I don't just recommend a product based on price and on the assumption that any OP is going to buy it from me - it's based on compatibility, and it's ability (in the case of an amp) to work with it's intended partners. Sure, some retailers may have anterior motives, but you're wasting your time watching my every move.

 

[jaxwired]

The NAD amps are especially good with hard to drive speakers because they have a design that provides brief burst of power that greatly exceeds the constant voltage published. For instance the 326 is spec at 50w into 8 or 4 ohms continuous, but it can provide brief bursts of power up to 150 watts into 4 ohms. They call it "powerdrive".

 

[Frank Harvey]

maxflinn:
FrankHarveyHiFi:plastic penguin:Where's Rick and David when you need them?
Sorry, was watching Inception.

I don't think my input will be valued much here, as I think this thread has been started due to some of my comments....

hi david, yes partly due to yours and others comments and partly because id like to know if there's any way to predetermine whether a given amp should be able to drive 4ohm speakers based on spec..

im not saying your wrong btw, you've probably forgotten more than i know about hifi

, but my yammy is driving my speakers very well to my ears, and im just curious as to why other budget amps cannot also do so

edit.. btw is your brain frazzled after watching inception? mine was on friday night after id seen it

Like I said in another thread, unfortunately, most manufacturers don't quote a current rating any more, and you can't really tell by looking at the specs. You'd probably have to get in touch with the manufacturers to find this specs out - and I bet some won't even know the value!

All amplifiers are built to a budget, and there's only so much possible at any given price point. You don normally see many high current amplifiers in the budget sector. I think I saw somewhere that the Audiolab 8200A kicks out 20 amps, which is pretty good for an integrated amp.

I seen Inception at the cinema, and was left wondering about many things. I'd recommend watching it again - I noticed lots of little things I missed the first time round, and it made more sense, even though it's still not fully understandable!!

 

[Frank Harvey]

I think part of the problem is that some manufacturers give ratings into 4ohms for some of their amplifiers, even if the amp doesn't stand a chance of efficiently driving or effectively controlling a pair of 4ohm speakers. It's quite misleading.

 

[Anonymous]

plastic penguin:maxflinn:

pp, ill upgrade/change/swap/buy whatever i choose, as often as i choose..

i dont have/want/need/ to justify why/what/when.where or otherwise to anyone on here or anywhere...

do yourself a favour and delete the last few silly posts you have made, im going to bed in 20min, if you've deleted them by then ill delete any corresponding posts, and you wont look silly in the morning

.

g'night....

If you read the last part of my thread it doesn't make me look silly at all.

"I think there's people on here who actually care, including myself, and although we wouldn't or couldn't stop you from spending your own money, I personally shudder you may commit a big faux pas."

Nightie-night.



pp, i told you a few weeks ago on another thread that i wanted a change from my monitor audio kit, for a few reasons which i again outlined in my review thread yesterday.

i also told you, after you had asked me, that i couldnt sell my monitor audio kit, but that my dealer would take it back and give me a credit note.

i also told you that as i wanted a change from monitor audio, my other choice for quality speakers was dynaudio, as my dealer is primarily a monitor audio/dynaudio dealer, he does have some budget dalis/mordaunt short/ gear also but that didnt interest me..

so i decided to buy some dynaudio standmounts, my choices were between excite 12/16';s and the dm range, now, seeing as the excite range need room to avoid bass issues, and one of my prerequisites was being able to place my speakers closer to a wall, i figured the dm 2/7's would fit the bill..

so i asked rick, on here, because i noticed that he was running the dm 2/7s with an as-500 what he thought of the combo, and as he had already said to others he told me that he thought it was excellent..

so, i took the plunge and am delighted, ecstatic, over the moon etc etc etc etc that i did, i have a brilliant little system now, and im very happy that i took a leap of faith because i was not entirely happy with my rx6's, as many old posts will testify..

so pp, with all due respect, you're a very nice person and i have no wish to upset you, but can you kindly try and take on board that contrary to what you may think, or others that "care" may or possibly may not think, i am perfectly capable of making these little hifi decisions all by myself, im perfectly capable of spending my own money without committing a "faux pas" and id very much appreciate if in future, threads that i start about a certain subject can remain on that subject, or any other subject in the whole wide world bar me, as its a trend thats becoming infuriatingly common...

hope we can chat tmw

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:maxflinn:
FrankHarveyHiFi:plastic penguin:Where's Rick and David when you need them?
Sorry, was watching Inception.

I don't think my input will be valued much here, as I think this thread has been started due to some of my comments....

hi david, yes partly due to yours and others comments and partly because id like to know if there's any way to predetermine whether a given amp should be able to drive 4ohm speakers based on spec..

im not saying your wrong btw, you've probably forgotten more than i know about hifi

, but my yammy is driving my speakers very well to my ears, and im just curious as to why other budget amps cannot also do so

edit.. btw is your brain frazzled after watching inception? mine was on friday night after id seen it

Like I said in another thread, unfortunately, most manufacturers don't quote a current rating any more, and you can't really tell by looking at the specs. You'd probably have to get in touch with the manufacturers to find this specs out - and I bet some won't even know the value!

All amplifiers are built to a budget, and there's only so much possible at any given price point. You don normally see many high current amplifiers in the budget sector. I think I saw somewhere that the Audiolab 8200A kicks out 20 amps, which is pretty good for an integrated amp.

I seen Inception at the cinema, and was left wondering about many things. I'd recommend watching it again - I noticed lots of little things I missed the first time round, and it made more sense, even though it's still not fully understandable!!cheers david

 

[Sabby]

A dealer told me that the quality of a good amp can be judged by the doubling of its power output from 8ohms to 4ohms, examples are Bryston, Krell etc. This signifies that the amp had very high current capibilities and would be able to drive speakers with a low impedeance.

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:
Remember that - in the case of Dave and Rick - they are dealers. Nice guys, no doubt of it, but they are here to sell stuff and if they can sow just a little, itsy-bitsy bit of insecurity about something (like the amount of current needed to drive your speakers) then they will.

It will gnaw away at your confidence in what you are actually hearing little by little until one day you will wake up, look at your Yamaha with contempt and hiss... "you call yourself a real amp with your tone controls? You don't even have a toroidal power supply!" ...and come on here and start asking about Naim and ATC amps.

Then they have you.... "Oh yes, the Nait XS/ATC integrated will be fine but you will only find true bliss with a seperate pre and power amp."

Then they tell you about 'seperate power supplies' and your world shrinks to obsessing about something with a name like a HICAP or NICNAC or somesuch and you find you have lost all your friends and your money and your family think you are mad.

Stop the madness here Max. Be happy. At least let the speakers run-in and enjoy what you have before they take away your sanity. (Ok possibly a bit late on that one

)

superb sensible post. well done for bringing some much needed sanity to this thread.

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:A couple of years ago over on another forum, I waged a war against a growing number of people buying high end speakers (purely because they had a chance of buying them cheap) and using them with £600 AV receivers. These receivers didn't have a cat in hell's chance of controlling the bass produced by these speakers, or providing them with the sort of current that was needed in order to hear them as the manufactuer intended.

What was the current delivery of the AV receiver?

How much current delivery did your recommendations offer?

 

[SteveR750]

Sabby:A dealer told me that the quality of a good amp can be judged by the doubling of its power output from 8ohms to 4ohms, examples are Bryston, Krell etc. This signifies that the amp had very high current capibilities and would be able to drive speakers with a low impedeance.

That's the theoretical expectation, but even then it's necessarily a guarantee that SQ is going to be *better*. I looked at the NAD C352 compared to the K2, and the NAD according to its manufacturers specs gets closer to the doubling of power with halving the impedance than the K2 does, yet there is no where near the same control or authority from the NAD sonically compared to the K2. It's like most specifications, individually perhaps not hugely significant, but its the sum effect of many that count, so I wouldn't fret about it, just enjoy the sound it is making.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Taylor74:What was the current delivery of the AV receiver? How much current delivery did your recommendations offer? There were numerous threads about this, and can't recall any specific ones off the top of my head as it was a couple of years ago.

AV receivers are far lower in current output then hi-fi amplifiers - an AV receiver's power supply has to supply 5 or 7 channels, and regardless of stated wpc ratings, those ratings are much lower in practice. I'd have to look into the current output of specific products if you needed to know. Harman kardon's used to fare pretty well in this respect.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

chebby:
Remember that - in the case of Dave and Rick - they are dealers. Nice guys, no doubt of it, but they are here to sell stuff and if they can sow just a little, itsy-bitsy bit of insecurity about something (like the amount of current needed to drive your speakers) then they will.

It will gnaw away at your confidence in what you are actually hearing little by little until one day you will wake up, look at your Yamaha with contempt and hiss... "you call yourself a real amp with your tone controls? You don't even have a toroidal power supply!" ...and come on here and start asking about Naim and ATC amps.

Then they have you.... "Oh yes, the Nait XS/ATC integrated will be fine but you will only find true bliss with a seperate pre and power amp."

Then they tell you about 'seperate power supplies' and your world shrinks to obsessing about something with a name like a HICAP or NICNAC or somesuch and you find you have lost all your friends and your money and your family think you are mad.

Stop the madness here Max. Be happy. At least let the speakers run-in and enjoy what you have before they take away your sanity. (Ok possibly a bit late on that one

)

Hi chebby

Thank you very much.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

maxflinn:
what im basically trying to find out is if one can deduce from the specs of a given amplifier whether or not its likely to satisfactorily drive demanding speakers, like 4ohm dynaudios for example?
Are you talking about specs like these? For example, here it's mentioned 180,000æF memory and >60 amps of current delivery among other details.

 

[Anonymous]

unleash_me:maxflinn:
what im basically trying to find out is if one can deduce from the specs of a given amplifier whether or not its likely to satisfactorily drive demanding speakers, like 4ohm dynaudios for example?
Are you talking about specs like these? For example, here it's mentioned 180,000æF memory and >60 amps of current delivery among other details.hi, yea im just curious, there were a few posts early on in this thread (from seemingly knowledgable people who had only a few posts to their name, i wonder if they'll be back here after the nonsence that later ensued

) that eluded to a formula that would give an indication of an amps current, calculated from spec, id very much like if someone could pick that up and maybe apply it to some amps, that would be interesting

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:There were numerous threads about this, and can't recall any specific ones off the top of my head as it was a couple of years ago. AV receivers are far lower in current output then hi-fi amplifiers - an AV receiver's power supply has to supply 5 or 7 channels, and regardless of stated wpc ratings, those ratings are much lower in practice. I'd have to look into the current output of specific products if you needed to know. Harman kardon's used to fare pretty well in this respect.

Frank,

You must be able to think of one AV amp and one integrated amplifier to provide some figures for?

What about the amplifiers that the store currently stocks. Say a Nait 5i (50w) compared to a Denon 4310 (170w)?

 

[Frank Harvey]

As per the reason for this thread, very few manufacturers quote current ratings. I've just had a quick search on the Bryston, Audiolab, and Sugden sites and can't see any current ratings at all. I haven't really got time to go through them all at the moment.

 

[Anonymous]

jaxwired:
The NAD amps are especially good with hard to drive speakers because they have a design that provides brief burst of power that greatly exceeds the constant voltage published. For instance the 326 is spec at 50w into 8 or 4 ohms continuous, but it can provide brief bursts of power up to 150 watts into 4 ohms. They call it "powerdrive".

cheers jax, i had heard that the nad has quite a high current, (the one i owned was a real powerhouse) thats why i put it in the list of 4 amps that id like somebody to apply this apparent current deducing formula to, if the nad is assumed to have a high current based on that then that would be interesting..

i wonder if any of the guys that mentioned such a formula last night, or anyone else, be prepared to have a crack at determining the current of these 4 amps?

yamaha as-500

naim nait 5i

nad c326bee

roksan kandy k2..

i have a feeling the thread may stay on subject now, anyone up for it

,

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:As per the reason for this thread, very few manufacturers quote current ratings. I've just had a quick search on the Bryston, Audiolab, and Sugden sites and can't see any current ratings at all. I haven't really got time to go through them all at the moment.

So how do you know the amps that have more current delivery?

Do you just go by ear?

Brand bias?

Bias against AV products?