amp current....

[Anonymous]

maxflinn:jaxwired:
The NAD amps are especially good with hard to drive speakers because they have a design that provides brief burst of power that greatly exceeds the constant voltage published. For instance the 326 is spec at 50w into 8 or 4 ohms continuous, but it can provide brief bursts of power up to 150 watts into 4 ohms. They call it "powerdrive".

cheers jax, i had heard that the nad has quite a high current, (the one i owned was a real powerhouse) thats why i put it in the list of 4 amps that id like somebody to apply this apparent current deducing formula to, if the nad is assumed to have a high current based on that then that would be interesting..

i wonder if any of the guys that mentioned such a formula last night, or anyone else, be prepared to have a crack at determining the current of these 4 amps?

yamaha as-500

naim nait 5i

nad c326bee

roksan kandy k2..

i have a feeling the thread may stay on subject now, anyone up for it

,

max you could just phone Steve from Steves hi fi and ask him to explain. He would be able to tell you everything you need to know. ...A very helpful chap indeed.

 

[JC1982]

I went to the Dynaudio demo room briefly at the WHF Manchester show. I walked in half way through the demo but the Dynaudio guy was basically saying that he wanted to dispel the myth that their speakers are hard to drive because of their 4 ohm rating. He said that unlike some other speakers impedence is uniform at all volume (?) levels and therefore they are not necessarily hard to drive. He proceeded to demo the 2/6's with a 30wpc amp which seemed to drive them fine to prove the point.

I don't know how much of this was true or sales talk but it could mean that these particular speakers are not as difficult to drive as other 4 ohm speakers.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Taylor74:
FrankHarveyHiFi:As per the reason for this thread, very few manufacturers quote current ratings. I've just had a quick search on the Bryston, Audiolab, and Sugden sites and can't see any current ratings at all. I haven't really got time to go through them all at the moment.

So how do you know the amps that have more current delivery?

Do you just go by ear?

Brand bias?

Bias against AV products?
Because I do. You need proof from the manufacturers, not myself. I have nothing against AV systems at all, I own one!

I've just spent 7 minutes on the phone to yamaha to find out about the AS500, and got nowhere, so feel free to look into the rest!

 

[Anonymous]

JC1982:
I went to the Dynaudio demo room briefly at the WHF Manchester show. I walked in half way through the demo but the Dynaudio guy was basically saying that he wanted to dispel the myth that their speakers are hard to drive because of their 4 ohm rating. He said that unlike some other speakers impedence is uniform at all volume (?) levels and therefore they are not necessarily hard to drive. He proceeded to demo the 2/6's with a 30wpc amp which seemed to drive them fine to prove the point.

I don't know how much of this was true or sales talk but it could mean that these particular speakers are not as difficult to drive as other 4 ohm speakers.

yyyeeeeeehhhhhhhhaaaaaaaawwwwwwwww

.....

thank you very much JC1982. hopefully those who appear to know otherwise will now believe me, the dm 2/7's im currently listening too are being driven easily by my as-500 , the combo sounds FANTASTIC

 

[Anonymous]

brittondave:maxflinn:jaxwired:
The NAD amps are especially good with hard to drive speakers because they have a design that provides brief burst of power that greatly exceeds the constant voltage published. For instance the 326 is spec at 50w into 8 or 4 ohms continuous, but it can provide brief bursts of power up to 150 watts into 4 ohms. They call it "powerdrive".

cheers jax, i had heard that the nad has quite a high current, (the one i owned was a real powerhouse) thats why i put it in the list of 4 amps that id like somebody to apply this apparent current deducing formula to, if the nad is assumed to have a high current based on that then that would be interesting..

i wonder if any of the guys that mentioned such a formula last night, or anyone else, be prepared to have a crack at determining the current of these 4 amps?

yamaha as-500

naim nait 5i

nad c326bee

roksan kandy k2..

i have a feeling the thread may stay on subject now, anyone up for it

,

max you could just phone Steve from Steves hi fi and ask him to explain. He would be able to tell you everything you need to know. ...A very helpful chap indeed.cheers dave

, its not so much i need to know, just curious really, or perhaps im trying to slay a myth

..

 

[chebby]

FrankHarveyHiFi:Taylor74:FrankHarveyHiFi:As per the reason for this thread, very few manufacturers quote current ratings. I've just had a quick search on the Bryston, Audiolab, and Sugden sites and can't see any current ratings at all. I haven't really got time to go through them all at the moment.

So how do you know the amps that have more current delivery?

Because I do.

'Nuff said.

 

[Frank Harvey]

There are no rules about what sort of current output an amplifier has at any given price, but the current will depend on the transformer used. A better quality and higher rated transformer will usually give more current. AV receivers don't usually tend to use the sort of transformers used in hi-fi amplifiers, which are sometimes hand made to certain specifications. AV receivers tend not to have this luxury. A £500 AV receiver has far more circuitry in them doing various things, and have many features which need paying for, not only physically, but also in roylaties. Hi-fi amplifiers are just straight forward 2 channel amplifiers - no expensive room EQ, no picture processing, no multiple channels to drive - the result being far higher quality components used, including the transformer.

 

[SteveR750]

maxflinn:jaxwired:
The NAD amps are especially good with hard to drive speakers because they have a design that provides brief burst of power that greatly exceeds the constant voltage published. For instance the 326 is spec at 50w into 8 or 4 ohms continuous, but it can provide brief bursts of power up to 150 watts into 4 ohms. They call it "powerdrive".

cheers jax, i had heard that the nad has quite a high current, (the one i owned was a real powerhouse) thats why i put it in the list of 4 amps that id like somebody to apply this apparent current deducing formula to, if the nad is assumed to have a high current based on that then that would be interesting..

i wonder if any of the guys that mentioned such a formula last night, or anyone else, be prepared to have a crack at determining the current of these 4 amps?

yamaha as-500

naim nait 5i

nad c326bee

roksan kandy k2..

i have a feeling the thread may stay on subject now, anyone up for it

,

Max this took 2s to find, straight off the Roksan website.

Output Power>125 Watts, into 8 Ohms
both channels driven
>190 Watts, into 4 Ohms
both channels driven

Current Output50 Amps Peak to Peak

and for the M2:

Output Power85 Watts, into 8O both channels driven
125 Watts, into 4O both channels drivenPower Supply350VA Ultra Low Noise Toroidal Transformer
60VA Ultra Low Noise Transformer Preamp Section Toroidal
5 Regulated Supply RailsCurrent Output60 Amps Peak to Peak

the K2 has a 500VA transformer, so there is no simple relationship between the PS, power output in watts and current capability.

 

[jiggyjoe]

Have a look here

[Or rather don't, as it breaks house rules - Mods]

The impedance of a speaker varies considerably with frequency so manufacturers rate the impedance as the average load.

Really you want to know what the minimum impedance is and at what frequency. what makes a speaker hard to drive is the combination of low sensitivity and low impedance especially through the bass/lower mid section where power levels are high.

You also need to consider the electrical phase of the loudspeaker. A wide phase shift combined with low impedance makes the load capacitive rather than the ideal resistive so returning energy back to the amplifier.

Dynaudio are honest about the impedance ratings for their speakers where as B&W for example rate some of their speakers as 8ohm yet the impedance drops as low as 3.2 ohm in the bass therefore negating a 4ohm rating .

another example is ATC scm 11, people say this loudspeaker needs a lot of current to drive it but this is not the case. This loudspeaker is a easy load to drive as its impedance pretty much stays above 8ohms over the whole frequency range therefore demanding little current.(amps)

what this speaker needs is volts! (power) because it has a low sensitivity rating 85db/w but actual measured more like 83db/w.

so to play reasonably loud this speaker really needs 100w +.

so ideally if you are using budget amps you are better of using speakers off highish sensitivity and highish minimum impedance if you like to play LOUD.

 

[Anonymous]

SteveR750:maxflinn:jaxwired:
The NAD amps are especially good with hard to drive speakers because they have a design that provides brief burst of power that greatly exceeds the constant voltage published. For instance the 326 is spec at 50w into 8 or 4 ohms continuous, but it can provide brief bursts of power up to 150 watts into 4 ohms. They call it "powerdrive".

cheers jax, i had heard that the nad has quite a high current, (the one i owned was a real powerhouse) thats why i put it in the list of 4 amps that id like somebody to apply this apparent current deducing formula to, if the nad is assumed to have a high current based on that then that would be interesting..

i wonder if any of the guys that mentioned such a formula last night, or anyone else, be prepared to have a crack at determining the current of these 4 amps?

yamaha as-500

naim nait 5i

nad c326bee

roksan kandy k2..

i have a feeling the thread may stay on subject now, anyone up for it

,

Max this took 2s to find, straight off the Roksan website.

Output Power>125 Watts, into 8 Ohms
both channels driven
>190 Watts, into 4 Ohms
both channels driven

Current Output50 Amps Peak to Peak

and for the M2:

Output Power85 Watts, into 8O both channels driven
125 Watts, into 4O both channels drivenPower Supply350VA Ultra Low Noise Toroidal Transformer
60VA Ultra Low Noise Transformer Preamp Section Toroidal
5 Regulated Supply RailsCurrent Output60 Amps Peak to Peak

the K2 has a 500VA transformer, so there is no simple relationship between the PS, power output in watts and current capability.

cheers steve, so the kandy has a current output of 50 amps peak to peak, i cant say i know whether thats high or not but im guessing its pretty decent as the kandy is a top amp..

it would be interesting to be able to get the same info on other amps, though at the moment that looks unlikely..

 

[Anonymous]

jiggyjoe:
Have a look here

[Or rather don't, as it breaks house rules - Mods]

The impedance of a speaker varies considerably with frequency so manufacturers rate the impedance as the average load.

Really you want to know what the minimum impedance is and at what frequency. what makes a speaker hard to drive is the combination of low sensitivity and low impedance especially through the bass/lower mid section where power levels are high.

You also need to consider the electrical phase of the loudspeaker. A wide phase shift combined with low impedance makes the load capacitive rather than the ideal resistive so returning energy back to the amplifier.

Dynaudio are honest about the impedance ratings for their speakers where as B&W for example rate some of their speakers as 8ohm yet the impedance drops as low as 3.2 ohm in the bass therefore negating a 4ohm rating .

another example is ATC scm 11, people say this loudspeaker needs a lot of current to drive it but this is not the case. This loudspeaker is a easy load to drive as its impedance pretty much stays above 8ohms over the whole frequency range therefore demanding little current.(amps)

what this speaker needs is volts! (power) because it has a low sensitivity rating 85db/w but actual measured more like 83db/w.

so to play reasonably loud this speaker really needs 100w +.

so ideally if you are using budget amps you are better of using speakers off highish sensitivity and highish minimum impedance if you like to play LOUD.

some good points there jiggyjoe

...

 

[SteveR750]

Max, look at the comparison between the M2 and the K2. The latter is more powerful, but does not have the same current capability of the M2. My guess is that the K2 will go 'louder' (higher voltage into a fixed load hence the higher power rating), but the M2 will cope better with impedance dips at a given volume.

 

[Anonymous]

SteveR750:Max, look at the comparison between the M2 and the K2. The latter is more powerful, but does not have the same current capability of the M2. My guess is that the K2 will go 'louder' (higher voltage into a fixed load hence the higher power rating), but the M2 will cope better with impedance dips at a given volume. yea thats interesting steve, and proves the point that more watts doesn't mean more current.. ive done a bit of reading elswhere

, and am kinda getting my head some way around this current malarky

..

 

[SteveR750]

and if you are vinterested, the Primare i-30 has a max current capability of *only* 40A

Current capability is probably largely academic at domestic listening levels with the majority of speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

SteveR750:
and if you are vinterested, the Primare i-30 has a max current capability of *only* 40A

Current capability is probably largely academic at domestic listening levels with the majority of speakers.

hence my curiosity, in my short but busy hifi experience so far ive had 4 amps, and i couldnt turn the volume past ten o'clock on any or id have blown the windows out

, albeit with easy to drive monitor audios..

having said that, ive found i need to get to eleven with my current setup for similar volume levels, using both my dyns and a little pair of 6ohm mission 760i's ive got that are incidentally said to be demanding of an amp..

i have a feeling that most budget amps will do a job with many speakers, 4-6 or 8ohm..

 

[Anonymous]

Once you've got the current thing sorted you need to get onto damping factor next. This is just as important!

 

[Anonymous]

bobbyg81:Once you've got the current thing sorted you need to get onto damping factor next. This is just as important!

as far as understanding electronics go i think ive hit what they call "a wall"

 

[AL13N]

...

 

[SteveR750]

bobbyg81:Once you've got the current thing sorted you need to get onto damping factor next. This is just as important!

You sir, are evil!

 

[Frank Harvey]

SteveR750:Current capability is probably largely academic at domestic listening levels with the majority of speakers
Current is evident at any volume (it's not linked to volume, it's about dynamics), and it's is that will partly determine how good a speaker can sound at lower volumes (as well as the speaker itself of course).

 

[Frank Harvey]

bobbyg81:Once you've got the current thing sorted you need to get onto damping factor next. This is just as important!

But damping factor varies depending on the frequency, so it's even less of a rough guide than watts per channel.

 

[Sizzers]

FrankHarveyHiFi:SteveR750:Current capability is probably largely academic at domestic listening levels with the majority of speakers
Current is evident at any volume (it's not linked to volume, it's about dynamics), and it's is that will partly determine how good a speaker can sound at lower volumes (as well as the speaker itself of course).

A fascinating thread this, but could you explain the relationship between current and low volume listening please David?

 

[SteveR750]

FrankHarveyHiFi:SteveR750:Current capability is probably largely academic at domestic listening levels with the majority of speakersCurrent is evident at any volume (it's not linked to volume, it's about dynamics), and it's is that will partly determine how good a speaker can sound at lower volumes (as well as the speaker itself of course).

Yes, but its only part of the story. Otherwise, the K2 would be a better amp than the i-30, which it clearly isn't. Dynamics are influenced by more than just max current output.

 

[Sabby]

maxflinn:JC1982:
I went to the Dynaudio demo room briefly at the WHF Manchester show. I walked in half way through the demo but the Dynaudio guy was basically saying that he wanted to dispel the myth that their speakers are hard to drive because of their 4 ohm rating. He said that unlike some other speakers impedence is uniform at all volume (?) levels and therefore they are not necessarily hard to drive. He proceeded to demo the 2/6's with a 30wpc amp which seemed to drive them fine to prove the point.

I don't know how much of this was true or sales talk but it could mean that these particular speakers are not as difficult to drive as other 4 ohm speakers.

yyyeeeeeehhhhhhhhaaaaaaaawwwwwwwww

.....

thank you very much JC1982. hopefully those who appear to know otherwise will now believe me, the dm 2/7's im currently listening too are being driven easily by my as-500 , the combo sounds FANTASTIC

Max I just don't understand. Why do you need reassurance from others that your 2/7's can be easily driven by the as-500? Don't you trust your own ears? You are obviously very happy with the sound you are getting from this combo, so why not leave it at that.

 

[chebby]

maxflinn:...having said that, ive found i need to get to eleven with my current setup...

"Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten."