Am i dreaming?

[robbo400]

Just back from the US and heard a friend's McIntosh system. A tube pre-amp, solid state power amp, cd player and run through Sonus Faber speakers.

Admittedly, I listened for a couple of hours but it seemed (to my ears) to totally blow away every piece of "high-end " equipment which i've heard at UK dealers over the years. I can appreciate that it isn't everybody's sound as it was very warm, bassy and powerful and lacked the (what I find to be) analytical detail of some of the highly acclaimed systems I've heard.

Now I've come back and looked at prices, I realise Mac equipment is out of my league.

So, my ridiculously stupid question is: does anyone know of other manufacturers whose signature sounds are in the same direction as Mac but are more affordable?

I'd imagine in car terms, I've ridden in a Rolls-Royce and liked it but can't afford one. So I'm looking for advice akin to being told that Mercedes is more in that direction than say Audi or BMW...if that makes sense.

I realise that it is taboo in the audiophile world, but I also like tone controls. My system will feed 3 different rooms with totally different sound characteristics and my very varied musical taste includes many older CDs where sound quality is not optimal. So, sometimes, the ability to increase/decrease treble/bass really adds to my listening experience.

Thanks

 

[Superaintit]

I would suggest you listen to Sonus FAber speakers; some that are more affordable. You then listen what amp makes the right combination. I would suggest Arcam or maybe an italian brand.

Otherwise I could only suggest you to have a look at B&O. Not warm and big bass, but natural and never harsh.

 

[CnoEvil]

The sound you get out the end, is a mixture / balance of Source / Amp / Speaker.

Sources that include valves often sound "fuller".

Amps: Pathos, Unison Research Unico, Audio Analogue (eg. Verdi Cento), Sugden (A21), Croft, Electrocompaniet, Jadis

Speakers: Sonus Faber, Spendor Classic Range, Harbeth, Kef R Series, Opera, Audio Note

 

[chebby]

"Admittedly, I listened for a couple of hours but it seemed (to my ears) to totally blow away every piece of "high-end " equipment which i've heard at UK dealers over the years."

Doesn't suprise me at all.

 

[Esra]

I would give

Unico Primo+Sonus Faber Venere 1.5 a try.You may like that.Do a demo if you can.

http://en.unisonresearch.com/195/unico-primo/

http://www.sonusfaber.com/en-us/products/venere-1-5

 

[matt49]

I'd suggest that most of the character you enjoyed about your friend's system was probably down to the particular presentation of the SF speakers. Do you know which models they were? Perhaps you can find out.

I ask for this reason. I've owned two pairs of SFs and heard a few more, and my experience has been that they're very diverse in their presentation. For instance, in the new Olympica range the three speakers are really very different. (For me the Olympica II is the stand-out model.) So if you want to recreate the sound you've heard, simply buying a pair of SFs may not do it. You'll need to persevere until you find the ones that do it for you.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

I would go with Unison Research Unico Nuovo or Secondo, UR is a bit warmer then Pathos, I had to change the pre amplification valves to get a bit more warmth.But you can get from hybrids almost the same characteristics that you've heard in your friends system.For speakers why search else where, if Sonus Faber work for you!

 

[drummerman]

Bel Canto is said to have a warm but powerful sound

regards

 

[davedotco]

I think the trick here is to work out what it was in the McIntosh/Sonus Faber system that was really making the difference.

I have spoken about this before, but i think that some equipment, often but not always amplifiers, are just so much better than the norm that they make systems sound really special.

There is, to my ears, a general mediocrity that overlays much modern equipment, and most systems. There is nothing wrong as such, just an overwheming feeling of, well, averageness. Hard to explain as a lot of people simple do not hear what I am describing, but from time to time we here from someone like the OP who have suddenly been exposed to a really good setup or sometimes, someone new to the hobby who finds that the equipment he is being told is great, thrilling etc, finds it nothing of the sort.

Clearly a lot of this equipment is pretty expensive, some frighteningly so but there are systems that can be put together at reasonable cost that do things very differently from, even highly rated, mainstream product. Finding it of course is the difficult bit, a good dealer will help immensly.

 

[Vladimir]

 

[robbo400]

Thanks all for your replies. I don't think I've heard any of the makes you guys mention. So I'll be doing a lot of researching and demos on those plus Astin Trew about whom I received a PM.

I've already learned not to trust reviews - I don't mean that as any criticism that they are dishonest - but I just think you need to listen for yourself. Based on press reviews and being pressed by a local dealer, I bought the Audiolab 8200 CD player. Very practical, good build and I'm pleased running an iPod Classic through the DAC but I find the CD is like listening to someone dragging fingernails down a blackboard. All the dealer talk of "you can bring it back if you don't like the sound to exchange" turned into "there is nothing wrong with the unit", so I put this down to experience. I still have it but now use a MF M1 DAC and CDT which I got on sale/return from a national chain and sounds so much better to me.

All of my other gear in my 2 systems is Sansui from the 70s (plus I still ahve my first separates system: an early 90s Cambridge Audio CD/Amp/Tuner - a make scoffed at but which I have had so much VFM from I couldn't do anything other than compliment them). I have an early 70s Sansui receiver (8080) which I love to death - much warmer than the late 70s Sansui 317 components in my second system. Unfortunately the transformer is starting to hum so I know it's on its last legs and apparently cannot be repaired. I was gutted until I heard the McIntosh in America. It is everything the 8080 is multiplied by 20!

Thanks for the advice and for listening. I'll let you know my thoughts once I've listened to a few and made a decision!!

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Let the fun begin...! :twisted:

 

[lindsayt]

Robbo, was your friend, by any chance playing really well recorded CD's? Were they CD's that you hadn't heard before? And was he playing it at volumes higher than you usually listen at?

 

[CnoEvil]

People (like me), who find a lot of mainstream modern gear a bit forward, bright and analytical, often find refuge in Hybrid, Valves and Class A...though there are a few Solid State AB amps that I like.

As well as my previous list, I would also include Arcam, Accuphase and Luxman. I don't know what your budget is, but you might like to try the new Arcam A49, if in range.

 

[davedotco]

Good luck.

Try and find a decent dealer or two and do not be afraid to step out of the mainstream.

An inexpensive system that I would love to try would be the Peachtree Nova amplifier with the Q Acoustics Concept 40 speakers, or at significantly lower cost, the basic 2050i with the Decco.

I heard the Concept 40 for the first time recently and thought they showed a lot of promise, though I thought they needed better amplification than that being used in the shop.

 

[nopiano]

I heard Sonus faber on Audio Research gear in London at the much missed Heathrow shows during the late 70's or early 80's (struggling to remember exactly when). Like you, I assumed I would never own anything like that. It was much more like music and less like hifi than anything I'd ever heard. I tried to get to demos whenever I could after that.

About a decade later, my very good Meridian 208 preamp CD, Musical Fidelity Studio T and Celestion SL600 system was nicked while I was on the way to Heathrow to start a holiday in the USA. I was gutted, but eventually when the loss asjuster told me I had about five grand to come, I chose the Krell and SF system in my footer, which with cables and stands came to about double that, but I knew it was only chance to get a piece of that sound!

So, no, you aren't dreaming! It is possible, so follow the dream.

 

[robbo400]

Lindsayt: Some of the music I didn't know but other stuff we played was stuff I knew inside out. Jazz , ska and soul were brilliant (I recommend everyone have a listen to an Argentinian band called Dancing Mood if you like ska/soul which was out of this world on the Mac) but I insisted on listening to some pop-ier stuff with less bass which I know inside out like Revolver, Ziggy Stardust and Beggar's Banquet. It sounded just as great and they were standard CD versions.

Also I listen at what I'm sure all of you would consider really low volume, which is why I love the Loudness button on my Sansuis (and by the way have been very disappointed at a friend's Arcam/PMC combo because it needs to be so loud before sounding good) , and the Mac gear was still great. My one worry is that the room was very different in terms of furnishings. I find American houses are full of stud partition walls and hollow structure and I do worry that may be very different in terms of acoustics to my 1930s UK home. Indeed, I'd be surprised if your avreage New England house would have lasted one meal-time with an Italian family like I grew up in lol. So that could have an impact.

Also, thanks Cno for the recommendation of Luxman and Accuphase - if they have the build and general charcter of their Sansui fellow countrymen that might also be what I'm looking for. Dave, the Concept standmounts didn't do it for me - I found them only slightly better than old Wharfedale Diamond 7.1s that I had for the volume and type of music I would have been using them for. Nopiano, glad you got a system you liked out of such a rotten experience...I had heard that Audio Research and McIntosh polarise views in America and that you either liked one sound or the other but I guess I've been narrow-minded on that one...

 

[davedotco]

Hi robbo.

Out of interest, what was the amplifier used on the Concept 40?

My observations lead me to think that they are remarkably transparent for speakers at this price. Drive them with mainstream amps and they sound mainstream, like a pair of Diamonds maybe. But with something decent........

Have you settled on a budget for the amp/speaker combo...?

FWIW. Most US homes are timber framed with, as you point out , stud internal walls. They behave like a kind of built in bass trap, very effectively too. It is the primary reason that many speakers made for that market are too bassy in more 'solid' uk homes.

 

[nopiano]

The history of these brands is interesting. For many years McIntosh was hard to find here (though I think Unilet used to carry them) and AFAIK Audio Research only arrived in the UK thanks to Absolute Sounds, who often paired Sonus Faber with Audio Research or Krell (often a tube preamp and SS power amp) as these were, and still are, two of their biggest amp brands.

Now, McIntosh and Audio Research are in the same stable as Sf. See here for the latest:-

http://www.finesoundsgroup.com/en-us/brands

 

[CnoEvil]

Also, thanks Cno for the recommendation of Luxman and Accuphase - if they have the build and general charcter of their Sansui fellow countrymen that might also be what I'm looking for.

...or there is my amp, the Musical Fidelity AMS 35i, whch can usually be found ex-dem. :shifty:

 

[emperor's new clothes]

Hi Robbo,

Some great suggestions so far. I agree with your summary of Audiolab, but there are plenty of happy owners who will disagree. I replaced a Cyrus system many moons ago for the same reason. I have just been reading the glowing review of the Chord Hugo DAC in this month's HFC. It expands on WHF 5 star test and adds comment by the designer and technical analysis that I do not understand. There is a separate editorial that describes the hugo as a "game changer" We have all heard that before, but perhaps this is a product than really can file the rough edges off digital sources and still retain detail and accuracy.

 

[emperor's new clothes]

Every time I try to edit my frequent spelling errors it triggers the spam filter - any suggestios apart from proof reading?

 

[pauln]

Every time I try to edit my frequent spelling errors it triggers the spam filter - any suggestios apart from proof reading?

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/about-the-site/spam-filter-blocking-my-reply-to-a-post-cant-wrk-out-why

 

[CnoEvil]

Every time I try to edit my frequent spelling errors it triggers the spam filter - any suggestios apart from proof reading?

I believe you have to get Mods to change you to "trusted" status.

 

[rainsoothe]

Hi - for what it's worth, I've auditioned a Jadis Orchestra valve amp and I thought it sounded stunning. It was paired with Focal Electra standmounts (forgot the number, 1008 or 1028 BEE or something like that), which are a bit too detailed for my own taste, but the Jadis tamed them and it sounded pretty good. Sonus Faber might be even a better match for the Jadis - sou you could give that a try. Really good sound coming out of that amp.