All in one or separates?

[Anonymous]

A big part of the fun is shopping around and demoing systems before you buy. Take your time, enjoy it, ask questions, bring music you know well.

Be aware, psychologically that louder music is often misinterpreted as better. Some cheeky traders have been known to play a more expensive system a bit louder on occasion, or tapping their feet is another trick sometimes used.

Not to say that there arent a lot of very valuable guys out there to help... find a good one and you will have all the support you need.

Naim has a very good ipad app in their favour if you are intent on the streaming route.

I spent many months making my mind up and it was at times fun and at times painful. I spent quite a bit on my Cyrus separates. Would I have also been happy with the sound if I had bought a decent Naim integrated (or probably Linn)? Absolutely.

I would say, dont wait too long with the system upgrade or even do it first. I have not heard your speakers but the system will probably bring a lot.

Now that I have a decent system in place, my B&W cm9s are no doubt the weak link so I will be looking to upgrade those too.

One final point... when you decided on the system / speakers, dont completely ignore the speaker cable.... I did until the end and then found it that it deserved some time and effort too in my opinion (while of course others say it is not that important)... make up your own mind

 

[plastic penguin]

Im surprised that no one has attempted to answer one of your original questions which was how does an all in one compare to separates in terms of sound quality.

From my point of view this is hard to say. I believe the traditional argument for separates is, well, to separate components and let them do their job without interference from other parts of the process (source, pre, dac, power) . On the other hand with an all in one, there is less physical distance between these processes and less chance of coloring the sound through cable choice (if such a phenomenon should exist )

I do not claim to be an expert. I went through the process and tested naim all in ones against cyrus integrated and cyrus separates. As my sig, I went down the separates route and as I frequently point out, I found that for me the most pleasing sound was reproduced using CD as a source. Now with hi-res downloads like 24/192, they are producing a very clean sound through my macbook and hiface2.

I did not dislike the naim sound at all, but I did not care for the aesthetics of the box at all. Mind you, a lot of people say the same about Cyrus.

I remember originally also wanting to use my appletv for streaming. You may want to delve a little deeper there as I found out back then that it isnt ideal as a music source.... apparently not always bit perfect and cannot do hi-res. You also might want to look at what player you use... for example itunes on it's own also isnt ideal because it also will not natively output hi-res.

One alternative you might want to look at is Rega as well. Pretty well regarded for separates and somewhat cheaper than Cyrus.

Whoever said you should get an AVR simply hasnt done their homework. At your budget they simply cannot compete for 2ch hifi, not even close. In the murky world of hi-fi, this is one thing of which I am now absolutely sure.

Thank you - there is a God after all .

You have pretty much nailed the dilemma to be honest and it's reassuring to know you have been down the road yourself to make the decision. I haven't tried Cyrus stuff but tomorrow am demoing some separates and the Linn all in one so I'll have a better idea by then.

As time progresses I think I'll end up doing this in stages, probably starting with speaker upgrade then followed by system upgrade next year. In terms of source I don't plan to use anything other than something like a Synology or QNap as I agree that the Apple stuff could be bettered in this area.

I don't plan to buy an AVR - hifi all the way for me.

I've been holding back because didn't want to sound like a stuck record. For warmish or smooth, detailed sound consider the following:

Arcam, Nad, Yamaha, Marantz Pearl Lite, Audio Analogue.

The Arcam Solo Neo looks interesting. Some will probably say the Marantz CR603 isn't far off for less cost, but go and have a listen. Then compare it, pure to satisfy your own curiosity, with Arcams A18 and CD17. Or Naim Uniti with Nait 5i amp and CDP. And see which way your tastes go. It's not the ultimate test but at least it'll give you a springboard.

 

[Overdose]

Whoever said you should get an AVR simply hasnt done their homework. At your budget they simply cannot compete for 2ch hifi, not even close. In the murky world of hi-fi, this is one thing of which I am now absolutely sure.

Why would an AVR not be able to compete with 2 ch stereo? Particularly at higher price ranges, AVR offer far more in terms of features and available power and if they can accurately convey a movie soundtrack in multi channel surround sound, 2 ch stereo is hardly going to pose any problem surely?

I think that people assume that a dedicated 2 ch amp at the same price as an AVR will be more focused, not so. Granted, there will be compromises at the lower price ranges, but at the level that the OP is looking at, the choice is one of aesthetics and functionality, not sound quality.

 

[FennerMachine]

There are some 'musical' sounding AVR's. Almost bought one myself many moons ago but decided instead for dedicated stereo and cheaper AVR as I use my system mainly for music. Both ways of building a system have there pros and cons.

I compared several systems before making my choice.

The issue for me personally was that £ for £ a dedicated stereo system outperformed the AVR system by a large margin even when leaving enough to buy a cheaper AVR.

A dedicated stereo system should have a better pre amp as the AVR has to 'pre amp' up to 9 outputs!

A pre amp is a very important part of a stereo system.

Lot's of the features of an AVR may be of no use to the OP.

The cost of making an AVR with all those features means that more compromises have to be made than spending all that manufacturing cost on a more simple stereo system.

The OP really needs to demo a few systems and try to narrow down his needs/wants.

As some have suggested what you could do is demo a Naim all-in-one to an equivalent priced Naim separates system and do the same for the other makes.

Only you can decide what you prefer, but with the sort of money you are looking at spending take your time and demo a few systems side by side, preferably over several listening sessions.

 

[gregvet]

Whoever said you should get an AVR simply hasnt done their homework. At your budget they simply cannot compete for 2ch hifi, not even close. In the murky world of hi-fi, this is one thing of which I am now absolutely sure.

Why would an AVR not be able to compete with 2 ch stereo? Particularly at higher price ranges, AVR offer far more in terms of features and available power and if they can accurately convey a movie soundtrack in multi channel surround sound, 2 ch stereo is hardly going to pose any problem surely?

I think that people assume that a dedicated 2 ch amp at the same price as an AVR will be more focused, not so. Granted, there will be compromises at the lower price ranges, but at the level that the OP is looking at, the choice is one of aesthetics and functionality, not sound quality.

This has not been my experience. Even AV amps in the £1,000- £2,000 bracket are fairly easily bettered by stereo amps costing singificantly less, when looking purely at stereo performance. I demo'd loads when I was setting up my main system and couldnt find a single AV amp I was happy with the stereo performance with, comparing to a good stereo amp.

In the end I got the Arcam AV9/P7 combo, which is great but cost significantly more new, and is still a compomise for stereo IMO.

 

[relocated]

For CD just get a quality 2nd hand player and connect via digital to the speakers.

.. and even better through a DAC.

The AVI ADMs either 9 or 40 have a dac built in, a very good dac.

 

[relocated]

Paulq,

It seems to me that you are 100% suitable to invest in AVI ADM 9 or 40. 9=standmount/bookshelf, 40=floorstanding.

Everything is in the speakers, preamp, dac, power amp, remote control and THE most phenominal sound. 40 from £3200 and 9 half that. You then have your other gear to sell and as far as I know Linn and Naim have high resale values so you will get a superb stereo for probably no real outlay.

Go on treat yourself, your ears will love you for it and no more angst about boxes and cables.

:cheers:

 

[Anonymous]

I have a decent sony AVR chosen for its musicality in reviews (the STR-DA5500ES). It simply doesnt compete in any way with all of the dedicated stereo amps which I demoed.

On the other hand it sounds simply fantastic with lossless blu ray movies :bounce:

When I first got into the home cinema scene I would have had the same view as you.

Now that I did many many months of testing and reading hundreds of reviews I can tell you no comparison.

So my findings, which are pretty much backed up by most people who have done the same thing as far as I can see, is that AVR most certainly are great for movies, but for 2ch stereo absolutely not so much.

Generally speaking, even pretty high end AVRs from the likes of Arcam, get close but still no cigar. Maybe theres just too much going on in the box, and as another poster says, the pre amp has to do too much perhaps?

Whoever said you should get an AVR simply hasnt done their homework. At your budget they simply cannot compete for 2ch hifi, not even close. In the murky world of hi-fi, this is one thing of which I am now absolutely sure.

Why would an AVR not be able to compete with 2 ch stereo? Particularly at higher price ranges, AVR offer far more in terms of features and available power and if they can accurately convey a movie soundtrack in multi channel surround sound, 2 ch stereo is hardly going to pose any problem surely?

I think that people assume that a dedicated 2 ch amp at the same price as an AVR will be more focused, not so. Granted, there will be compromises at the lower price ranges, but at the level that the OP is looking at, the choice is one of aesthetics and functionality, not sound quality.

 

[Overdose]

I have a decent sony AVR chosen for its musicality in reviews (the STR-DA5500ES). It simply doesnt compete in any way with all of the dedicated stereo amps which I demoed.

On the other hand it sounds simply fantastic with lossless blu ray movies :bounce:

So somehow, music is more difficult for an AVR to reproduce than a movie soundtrack?

 

[richardw42]

Sorry, I've lost this thread, why are AV receivers being discussed ?

I read it that the OP want to keep as simple as pass, so source(s) straight to AVI speakers seems ideal. As relocated has stated if you sell your current gear, AVI ADM9RS are likely to cost less than you'll get.

 

[Paulq]

Sorry, I've lost this thread, why are AV receivers being discussed ?

I read it that the OP want to keep as simple as pass, so source(s) straight to AVI speakers seems ideal. As relocated has stated if you sell your current gear, AVI ADM9RS are likely to cost less than you'll get.

Yep - I am not interested in an AVR.

 

[Overdose]

Sorry, I've lost this thread, why are AV receivers being discussed ?

The OP was interested in a one box solution. An AVR is one such solution that offers the ability to be used a a streamer, which is what the OP wants.

The OP doesn't want an AVR, but they have been dismissed as not being particularly hifi, hence the discussion.

I believe that they are no less hifi than a stereo amp.

I wouldn't disagree on the AVI solution, but a streamer of some sorts, would still be needed.

 

[richardw42]

Overdose - what do you think of

Mac Mini - Airport Express - AVI

 

[richardw42]

I agree re. AVRs.

I wouldn't see any point in adding a stereo amp to my AVR just for the minute differences for music listening.

 

[Anonymous]

So somehow, music is more difficult for an AVR to reproduce than a movie soundtrack?

Apparently so according to what my ears tell me, but I think we have both stated our opinions now, lets let the OP stay on topic, shall we?

:cheers:

 

[Overdose]

So somehow, music is more difficult for an AVR to reproduce than a movie soundtrack?

Apparently so according to what my ears tell me, but I think we have both stated our opinions now, lets let the OP stay on topic, shall we?

:cheers:

Yes, lets.

As for the Mac min / AEX / AVIs, a very effective and versatile solution. ( I was tempted to say cost effective, but that depends on where ones budget sits).

 

[kungula]

I decided today for the all in one, i.e. Naim SuperUniti with speakers from Neat (Elite SX) . The sound convinced me and I believe the Superuniti will stay in my living for the next 5 to 10 years. I had auditioned before to all seperate streamers from Naim including the NDS, NDX,ND5XS and from Linn the Akurate DSM, Majic DS and Majic DSM with different speakers and amplifiers like the Linn Akurate 2200. My feeling is that the Naim offers the best value for money if you want a better streamer than Sonos or Logitech.

And the amplifier is really on the same level as the Supernait which is still an excellent amp after so many years. I had tried the Naim against the much more expensive Accuphase E 450 and I preferred the Supernait.

Naim does not need to change their products every year to stay at the top.

 

[Paulq]

Nice one - I am sure you will enjoy that. I listened to the Uniti 2 last week and, whilst ot's not for me, it is a seriously good bit of kit.

I made the call today as well as I listened to an array of speakers and systems and have just got back home since first thing this mornin - quite a day for demos.

I have decided on the Linn Majik DSM and Linn Majik 140 speakers as they just absolutely blew me away and sticking with Linn gear offers me limitless upgrade options.

I just need to push the painful 'Buy' button now and then go and lie down .

Enjoy your new system.

 

[CnoEvil]

Paul, I think you have just found that there is a synergy in an "all Linn" system, so I'm not surprised you went for this.

What other speakers/systems did you listen to, and how close did they get to the Majik DSM / 140s.

 

[Paulq]

Paul, I think you have just found that there is a synergy in an "all Linn" system, so I'm not surprised you went for this.

What other speakers/systems did you listen to, and how close did they get to the Majik DSM / 140s.

Hi Cno

I think you are right and I went into the whole thing completely open mindedly. If truth be told I wouldn't have minded a change but took the view that only my ears would decide.

Speaker wise I listened to the B&W CM8's, Kef LS50's and Q300, Spendor A5 plus the Linn Majik 109's and the B&W PMI's. Kit wise obviously the Majik DSM in addition to the Naim Uniti2 last week plus this week the roksan Kandy K2. I'd just about had enough after that lot.

Put simply, both with my existing kit (which I now need to sell before I do anything) then the 140's were simply the stand out performers and did everything really well. I had them passively but triamped they ouperformed anything I had ever heard in my life and I am not exaggerating.

The only things that came remotely colse were the PM1's and I'd be lying if these weren't described as utterly sensational. The clincher was just that, when pushed hard and pyrely because of their size, they lost control a bit but only as much as you would expect to be fair. Plus I am getting a great deal on the linn's and that was also a factor.

I need a drink!

 

[kungula]

Paulq, congratulations for the MDSM, it was my first choice for a long time too. Unfortunately the Majik 140 was not the right speaker for my living room as the bass is too pronounced and I found it a bit uncontrolled too.

But may be for you it is just perfect, so enjoy it.

 

[CnoEvil]

Great job, and I know you will enjoy your new purchase.

Cno

 

[Paulq]

Well, it's taken me a couple of weeks to assemble everything and understand what I need to do but now have set up my new Linn Majik DSM with Majik 140 speakers and Synology NAS.

If I could swear on here I probably would to tell you how good it is. But I can't so I'll just say it's jolly good indeed and I am loving the sound and the sheer flexibility of it; particularly the range of control options in Kinsky, Chorus and DS Audio (Synology NAS).

Just a further question. Yesterday I was mucking about trying to set it up and was struggling a bit with the sound. I spoke to a Linn dealer in the NW who was particularly arrogant and unhelpful but suggested my cables may be in need of an upgrade. I currently use QED Silver Anniversary 2 and have really liked them - can anyone recommend anything better that would do justice to my new setup?

Thanks to all who contributed to the thread. Am glad I stuck with Linn. :rockout:

 

[CnoEvil]

Dealers who are arrogant just do themselves no favours!

What is the problem you have with the sound.....maybe a slight brittleness.

I suggest you use Linn K20 : http://www.linn.co.uk/systems/all-products/accessories/k20-loudspeaker-cable

Either try to borrow some, or take a chance on Ebay.

The other possibility would be the Naim NAC A5

 

[Paulq]

I agree - to a point I can understand his ire as I didn't buy the unit from him but I wasn't asking for free installation - literally just 5 minutes 'brain picking' and no more. That was obviously quite an affront to his ego but never mind - he won't be getting more business from me especially as my next purchase will be a Majik 6100 so I can go Aktiv.

Anyway the sound is 'fine' and can't be criticised in terms other than personal preference - just a tad bass ight that's all. I suspected that I would end up looking at Linn cabling which sticks in my throat a bit as I am not a cabling disciple to be honest, as long as you don't use bell wire.

Thanks for the link - will take a look.