All in one or separates?

[Paulq]

Some of you may have read and/ or replied to a recent posting of mine where I am seriously considering my next upgrade with the favourites being the Naim Uniti 2 or the Linn Majik DSM. Despite being a long term Linn owner the Naim was actually my favourite given its one box solution. However, having demo'd it with 3 different speaker packages last week it, as yet, has disappointed me a bit as it just doesn't reproduce the sound I like.

However, some on here were good enough to give me some alternative speaker suggestions, particularly with Dynaudio, which I have yet to try. Similarly I am due to demo a Linn DSM this weekend with a range of speakers up to the £2k mark with the acclaimed B&W PM1's

I should explain at his point that my set up for the past 5 yrs (ish) has been a Linn CD/power amp with B&W 685's so I 'm a fan of both those brands; albeit that the sound from their respective newer products may indeed be different to mine so I'm open minded.

In the course of looking at options I must admit I've been pretty dead set on a one box solution, maybe even to the point of not acknowledging that there may be another option in separates. Frankly the one box solution is the ideal from a space point of view but with either of the above 2 it's likely to set me back around £3k excluding any speaker upgrade.

So, before I push the button can I ask for people's take on whether that £3k would be better spent on a CD player/amp? Note that the majority, not all, of my music is streamed as Apple Lossless files through my existing Linn/B&W set up using Airport Express/AirPlay and that would continue to be the case, along with occasional CD playing. I'd need an optical input for the AE plus enough for the CD and a headphone amp.

I also figure that separates may be easier to partner with speakers than my Linn kit is - mainly rock music so plenty of wellcontrolled bass and a warm sound that's not too bright is what I am after. Room 12 x 12 foot approx.

So - for that sort of money what would you spend it on? Bear in mind that's the absolute max and I don't want to spend that if I don't have to but want some good, high end components that deliver the sound, quality and flexibility that i want. If that costs £1000 great but am after decent stuff to last many years.

I have looked at the award winners from Roksan etc but would appreciate some other recommendations or comments.

Apologies for the length of post - just wanted to give enough up front detail. Thanks in advance for any help, particularly to those who responded to my post of last week.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Go for a mid priced reciever 5.1/7.1. and quality CD player

it'll have its own built in DAC so digital ready for your digital stuff, will have 'real' power with a PSU capable of delivering 5x what you'll be using in 2 channel mode , you'll be suprised how dynamic these thingsare when set up right for 2ch duties and they can be bi-amped or bi-wired and will drive any speaker you may care to name.

It'll also give you the option to use the digital out on your CD player, which dare I say it - sounds better than the anolog.....or is that the dac again.....anyway - try getting some home demo's try it and tell us what you think.

 

[Paulq]

Not really considered that to be honest - any particular ones? And as per original post any other suggestions are very welcome.

 

[kungula]

you should rather compare the Majik DSM to the Superunti. The advantage of seperates is certainly the flexibility if you want to upgrade eventually. The advantage of all in one is certainly the price and you need less cables also.

 

[Paulq]

you should rather compare the Majik DSM to the Superunti. The advantage of seperates is certainly the flexibility if you want to upgrade eventually. The advantage of all in one is certainly the price and you need less cables also.

How come you would compare the MDSM with the Superuniti as the MDSM and the Uniti2 are at the same price point?

I completely agree about the aesthetics of the one box and the lack of clutter and that's one of the major draws with them. However I'm curious to know whether the one box is actually a compromise in terms of sound, albeit that they are good, and whether a dedicated set of high end separates would provide better?

 

[kungula]

Superuniti and MDSM play on a similar level as far as I can judge this. It seems to me ( I cannot prove it though ) that the amp of the Superuniti is better which justifies a higher price than the Untiti 2. I personally never really considered the Uniti 2.

An alternative for you could be the Naim NA C_N-172 XS for you as you have the Linn 2100 Amp which could be used of course.

 

[kungula]

Superuniti and MDSM play on a similar level as far as I can judge this. It seems to me ( I cannot prove it though ) that the amp of the Superuniti is better which justifies a higher price than the Untiti 2. I personally never really considered the Uniti 2.

An alternative could be the Naim NA C_N-172 XS for you as you have the Linn 2100 Amp which could be used of course.

 

[Ashley]

If you like the AVR approach, try the Audiolab pre/power combo (8200AP/8200x7), or perhaps the 8000 version. It's meant to be a very musical AVR, or perhaps just the pre and then a stereo power. I haven't heard it for long periods, but it is extremely powerful and musically very capable. Check out the user comments in the WHF review, as opposed to the actual review. I'm sure any AVR pre/power combo would be suitable though, I even think Linn do one; or indeed any AVR pre and HiFi power.

 

[Paulq]

If you like the AVR approach, try the Audiolab pre/power combo (8200AP/8200x7), or perhaps the 8000 version. It's meant to be a very musical AVR, or perhaps just the pre and then a stereo power. I haven't heard it for long periods, but it is extremely powerful and musically very capable. Check out the user comments in the WHF review, as opposed to the actual review. I'm sure any AVR pre/power combo would be suitable though, I even think Linn do one; or indeed any AVR pre and HiFi power.

Am not mad on the idea to be honest. The ones I have listened to, whilst feature loaded, didn't do music enough justice and that's my primary intention.

 

[richardw42]

Squeezebox Touch (or other streamer) + AVI ADM9 RS. Amazing quality.

For CD just get a quality 2nd hand player and connect via digital to the speakers.

 

[kungula]

Sqeezebox touch is certainly intersting when you have a tight budget, but it cannot compete with a Linn or Naim streamer.

 

[richardw42]

I disagree

Feed the SBT through the DAC in the AVIs, and the sound is just immense.

Course as the OP already uses an Airport Express, this can go straight to the AVIs, and buy a Apple Mac Mini as the source.

 

[Paulq]

Guys

Thanks for taking the time to respond - I really appreciate it but I don't want an AVR - I want a hifi system.

Any recommendations on amps and CD players?

 

[kungula]

keep your Majik 2100 Power Amp and buy a good streamer like a Linn DS ( DSM ) and forget CDS.

Then change your speakers, so listen well on saturday

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

I have only just discovered the Linn products (perhaps I've been hiding under a rock) and given the ability to 'do over' my set-up, would probably go one of the Linn's (love the fact that it has HDMIs) or a Naim NAC-N 172 XS into a NAP 155 XS
(with HDMI from sources direct to television for picture / switching purposes).

Not sure that helps your decision making process - but I'm certainly a fan of the one / few box approaches at the moment.

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi Paul

I have generally found that you either get on with the "Naim sound", or you don't....and in a similar vein, the people who like the way Linn sounds, find it hard to settle with anything else.

IMO. The best items that Linn produce are thsir sources ie. TT and DS; so if you are going the seperates route, I would advise still using the DS as a source (Sneaky or Majik DS).

As for amps, maybe look at those from Electrocompaniet, Musical Fidelity, Sugden, Bel Canto and Creek. If you go for a Majik DS, you would have £1200 left for an amp; and if you went for a Sneaky, just over £2k. Taken in this context, the DSM is good vfm, provided you love the way it sounds (highly likely).

Also imo, I wouldn't go with a CDP, as the DS is consderably better, at anywhere near its price bracket......you will shortly be able to make your own mind up on all this, once you've heard it.

 

[bigmoose]

Hi there,

There are few advantages to go for an all-in-one in my opinion:

- Ease of use: You have only one box to switch on, one remote, and all your music can easily be accessed from this same remote control.

- Cost: Integrated might end up being cheaper than buying the same separates. Also, you save on cables as you don't need interconnects (Or you might just end up investing more on your speaker wires).

- Look: Depending on tastes of course.

I switched from a separate to a Linn DSM a month ago, which is why I mention this!

I understand an all-in-one might not be for you if you like to upgrade often, or if you like the old charm of picking up a cd and put it in the player. However, there is a certain comfort in being able to sit on your sofa, read your newspaper/magazine and choose your music... All from your Ipad! No need to switch remotes, or getting up to change music. The ease of use is also a great way to introduce your partner into hifi, and I caught mine using the stereo quite a few times...

I believe Linn dealers can propose you a home demo, so you might want to try for few days. I can't comment on the Naim as I have not tried though...

 

[Paulq]

Hi there,

There are few advantages to go for an all-in-one in my opinion:

- Ease of use: You have only one box to switch on, one remote, and all your music can easily be accessed from this same remote control.

- Cost: Integrated might end up being cheaper than buying the same separates. Also, you save on cables as you don't need interconnects (Or you might just end up investing more on your speaker wires).

- Look: Depending on tastes of course.

I switched from a separate to a Linn DSM a month ago, which is why I mention this!

I understand an all-in-one might not be for you if you like to upgrade often, or if you like the old charm of picking up a cd and put it in the player. However, there is a certain comfort in being able to sit on your sofa, read your newspaper/magazine and choose your music... All from your Ipad! No need to switch remotes, or getting up to change music. The ease of use is also a great way to introduce your partner into hifi, and I caught mine using the stereo quite a few times...

I believe Linn dealers can propose you a home demo, so you might want to try for few days. I can't comment on the Naim as I have not tried though...

Hi

Thanks that's really useful and, as I mentiond earlier, a 'one box' is certainly attractive for all the reasons you mention as long as the standard and quality os good. As a long time Linn owner I can't deny that the Majik DSM is a temptation and probably my preference. However the Naim with the CD as an option is something that can't be ignored either.

Just a quick question - what setup do you use with the Majik and, in particular, what speakers did you end up pairing it with?

Thanks again.

 

[Anonymous]

For CD just get a quality 2nd hand player and connect via digital to the speakers.

.. and even better through a DAC.

 

[bigmoose]

Hello,

I had the Tannoy DC8 in mind and was looking at associating those with the Audiolab 8200CDQ + 8200P. Until of course my dealer recommended that I listen to the Linn Majik DSM. I know it is an unfair comparison since the Linn costs twice as much, but the Linn adds considerable dynamic and punch compared to the Audiolab. This is what was needed for the Tannoy DC8 which are quite relaxed speakers.

I have to say, I only have limited experience in Hifi, but I absolutely love the Linn. The ease of use is fantastic and the only downside I found is coming from the Kinsky application. It works great on the Ipad, but the PC version could be improved and the Android version is inexistent (You need to purchase a third party app). If you already have an Ipad, no problem at all. If not, plan your budget in advance as it feels like the Linn was aimed at being used with an Ipad (Even my dealer shared the same feeling). With the Ipad in hand, you can do everything: Switch the device on/off, change sources, create playlists, change volume... And of course, play your music! Linn provide a remote, but it is currently stored ina drawer.

Some reviewer mentioned troubles setting it up, but I had no trouble at all (As long as your NAS supports Twonky). Only watch out for firewalls if your PC doesn't recognise the Linn.

Oh, one last thing: I understand you intend on using the HDMI pass-through. While it works a treat, be aware that it only works if the Linn is switched on. No signal will go through if the Linn is off. It might seem silly, but sometimes, I just want to watch TV and don't really care about getting a better sound off the Linn. If you plan on getting all your sound going through the Linn, no problem at all. Just a thought...

 

[bigmoose]

Regarding the fact that the Naim has a CD, I don't really view it as a plus. The point of the Linn is to have your whole collection stored on your NAS. I have everything converted in FLAC lossless and have my CDs stored in a box... No more missing CD, empty CD cases lying around, or CD cases with the wrong CD inside! :rofl:

 

[Anonymous]

Im surprised that no one has attempted to answer one of your original questions which was how does an all in one compare to separates in terms of sound quality.

From my point of view this is hard to say. I believe the traditional argument for separates is, well, to separate components and let them do their job without interference from other parts of the process (source, pre, dac, power) . On the other hand with an all in one, there is less physical distance between these processes and less chance of coloring the sound through cable choice (if such a phenomenon should exist )

I do not claim to be an expert. I went through the process and tested naim all in ones against cyrus integrated and cyrus separates. As my sig, I went down the separates route and as I frequently point out, I found that for me the most pleasing sound was reproduced using CD as a source. Now with hi-res downloads like 24/192, they are producing a very clean sound through my macbook and hiface2.

I did not dislike the naim sound at all, but I did not care for the aesthetics of the box at all. Mind you, a lot of people say the same about Cyrus.

I remember originally also wanting to use my appletv for streaming. You may want to delve a little deeper there as I found out back then that it isnt ideal as a music source.... apparently not always bit perfect and cannot do hi-res. You also might want to look at what player you use... for example itunes on it's own also isnt ideal because it also will not natively output hi-res.

One alternative you might want to look at is Rega as well. Pretty well regarded for separates and somewhat cheaper than Cyrus.

Whoever said you should get an AVR simply hasnt done their homework. At your budget they simply cannot compete for 2ch hifi, not even close. In the murky world of hi-fi, this is one thing of which I am now absolutely sure.

 

[Overdose]

With so many options available to you, given your budget, sound quality compromise is not going to be an issue.

As a believer of speakers being the most important part of the system, why not consider some PMC TB2S2-AIIs with a more modestly priced StreamMagic 6? In fact, any more moderately priced streamer.

I like the benefits of active speakers (although I don't believe that these PMCs are truly active) as amplification is taken out of the equation.

 

[Paulq]

Im surprised that no one has attempted to answer one of your original questions which was how does an all in one compare to separates in terms of sound quality.

From my point of view this is hard to say. I believe the traditional argument for separates is, well, to separate components and let them do their job without interference from other parts of the process (source, pre, dac, power) . On the other hand with an all in one, there is less physical distance between these processes and less chance of coloring the sound through cable choice (if such a phenomenon should exist )

I do not claim to be an expert. I went through the process and tested naim all in ones against cyrus integrated and cyrus separates. As my sig, I went down the separates route and as I frequently point out, I found that for me the most pleasing sound was reproduced using CD as a source. Now with hi-res downloads like 24/192, they are producing a very clean sound through my macbook and hiface2.

I did not dislike the naim sound at all, but I did not care for the aesthetics of the box at all. Mind you, a lot of people say the same about Cyrus.

I remember originally also wanting to use my appletv for streaming. You may want to delve a little deeper there as I found out back then that it isnt ideal as a music source.... apparently not always bit perfect and cannot do hi-res. You also might want to look at what player you use... for example itunes on it's own also isnt ideal because it also will not natively output hi-res.

One alternative you might want to look at is Rega as well. Pretty well regarded for separates and somewhat cheaper than Cyrus.

Whoever said you should get an AVR simply hasnt done their homework. At your budget they simply cannot compete for 2ch hifi, not even close. In the murky world of hi-fi, this is one thing of which I am now absolutely sure.

Thank you - there is a God after all .

You have pretty much nailed the dilemma to be honest and it's reassuring to know you have been down the road yourself to make the decision. I haven't tried Cyrus stuff but tomorrow am demoing some separates and the Linn all in one so I'll have a better idea by then.

As time progresses I think I'll end up doing this in stages, probably starting with speaker upgrade then followed by system upgrade next year. In terms of source I don't plan to use anything other than something like a Synology or QNap as I agree that the Apple stuff could be bettered in this area.

I don't plan to buy an AVR - hifi all the way for me.

 

[VinylRush]

Personally I would stay away from a surround receiver for stereo.

I had a Marantz 1601, which is well repected as a 'musical' surround amp and my Brio-R for £500 blew it away.

I even borrowed a £200 Cambridge Audio amp while the Marantz was being fixed one time and it was a step up also.