All in one hi-fi systems

[Snooker]

I notice we now have the new Naim Mu-so for around £850 “including speakers"

The Marantz MCR610 for around £450 “without speakers”

The Denon Ceol N8 now for around £260 from £400 (New Ceol N9 out soon) “without speakers”

Now if we paired up the Marantz and Ceol with speakers bringing the overall price to the same as the new Naim Mu-so, would there really be that much difference between all three regarding sound quality, bearing in mind the cost for the system without speakers is around the same sort of value for each system say around £450 etc ?

 

[andyrich_2000]

Not to mention the Dali kubic free and possibly the best of all the quad vena.

 

[chebby]

Different products for different markets.

Two of those systems have FM/DAB tuners and CD players built in.

People with no interest in wireless, streaming or DAC connections could still use the Denon and Marantz as fairly conventional systems, with traditional separate speakers of their choice, whereas the Naim would just be a giant paperweight without wireless, tablets, apps, phones, laptops etc. or the internet.

 

[andyrich_2000]

Still no one has answered my question re the naim - where would you put it if u don't have a hifi rack?

 

[chebby]

Still no one has answered my question re the naim - where would you put it if u don't have a hifi rack?

I would seek out a Martin Visser sideboard or similar.

Or something like this ...

 

[tino]

It would be instructive if WHF did a comparative test of the following systems assuming all are with approx the same budget of say £850. Is it really that cut and dry that the hifi separates would sound best?

1. traditional stero steup consisting of hifi separates

2. mini hifi system

3. wireless speaker setup (a la Naim Muso or good quality soundbase)

4.AV system with stereo speaker setup

 

[Overdose]

Aside from the obvious shortcomings as listed by Chebby, the Muso won't have much of a stereo image either.

 

[chebby]

It would be instructive if WHF did a comparative test of the following systems assuming all are with approx the same budget of say £850. Is it really that cut and dry that the hifi separates would sound best?

A question that is simply not on the radar for people who wouldn't want separates regardless of the outcome of such a test (or, far more likely, don't even know what traditional hi-fi separates are or where they are sold).

The "do separates sound best" debate is really only being held between a few people - tucked away in forums like these - most of whom are already decided on the matter anyway.

 

[manicm]

One thing to note is that the Mu-so is way, way more powerful than the Marantz/Denon. If you have a bigger room, or want to play louder then you need to consider that. By several reviews that are now available the Mu-so is really a great sounding system, however one review also stated that ethernet offers the best results even though it's touted as a wireless system.

 

[Vladimir]

@Tino

The biggest advantage of all-in-ones (including active wifi speakers) is that they are mostly "civilian proof". You can get hi-fi separates all wrong and get underwhelming results for high sums of money. Being an audiophile requires knowledge that stems from costly learning experiences and not just theory (just like any hobby really).

If someone listened to TV speakers only as their sonic reference, then he/she will be amazed by an all in one like a BOSE or a Naim Mu-So and possibly even prefer it over separates. Many BOSE owners prefer its sound over high-fidelity sound because it's all homogenously mushed together and nothing stands out, nothing shouts, or rumbles the furniture. It sounds pleasant and is convenient to use.

In lifestyle electronics convenience is the highest priority. In High-Fidelity faithfull sound reproduction is the top priority. All-In-One is not High-Fidelity by its very purpose and design. I wonder why are we discussing all-in-ones in a hi-fi thread at all.

Snob alert!

 

[steve_1979]

It would be instructive if WHF did a comparative test of the following systems assuming all are with approx the same budget of say £850. Is it really that cut and dry that the hifi separates would sound best?

1. traditional stero steup consisting of hifi separates

2. mini hifi system

3. wireless speaker setup (a la Naim Muso or good quality soundbase)

4.AV system with stereo speaker setup

+1

That would be an interesting article.

 

[andyrich_2000]

Yes chebby but time has moved on and a lot of people, maybe younger people don't have CDs and just want to stream their music. I would love a streamer that has wifi, Bluetooth, Internet radio and AirPlay to go with a pair of speakers in the £500 price range like dali zensor 3 or concept 20s. However there doesn't seem to be one at has all that functionality. I don't ever listen to CDs so need a decent streaming solution.

 

[andyrich_2000]

Agreed Steve and tino

 

[manicm]

@Tino

The biggest advantage of all-in-ones (including active speakers) is that they are mostly "civilian proof". You can get hi-fi separates all wrong and get underwhelming results for high sums of money. Being an audiophile requires knowledge that stems from costly learning experiences and not just theory (just like any hobby really).

If someone listened to TV speakers only as their sonic reference, then he/she will be amazed by an all in one like a BOSE or a Naim Mu-So and possibly even prefer it over separates. Many BOSE owners prefer its sound over high-fidelity sound because it's all homogenously mushed together and nothing stands out, nothing shouts, or rumbles the furniture. It sounds pleasant and is convenient to use.

In lifestyle electronics convenience is the highest priority. In High-Fidelity faithfull sound reproduction is the top priority. All-In-One is not High-Fidelity by its very purpose and design. I wonder why are we discussing all-in-ones in a hi-fi thread at all.

Snob alert!

Pointlessly or not, you're banging on semantics. Topographically systems like the Mu-so may not be 'hi-fi', as Malcolm Steward said. In the same breath he was also smitten by the system. If the device is engaging and moving me musically then to me it's hifi. You and others may quite rightly beg to differ but I don't care.

And neither does Linn - your statement 'All-In-One is not High-Fidelity by its very purpose and design' has been blown into the audio ether as Linn's top-dog Klimax Exakt is a 2-box system - the speakers and the streaming box - other configurations are available which involve multiple boxes for other speakers - but you can purchase a complete 2-box Klimax Exakt system.

So your definition of 'hi-fi' has been outdated and outmoded years ago.

 

[Vladimir]

Pointlessly or not, you're banging on semantics. Topographically systems like the Mu-so may not be 'hi-fi', as Malcolm Steward said. In the same breath he was also smitten by the system. If the device is engaging and moving me musically then to me it's hifi. You and others may quite rightly beg to differ but I don't care.

And neither does Linn - your statement 'All-In-One is not High-Fidelity by its very purpose and design' has been blown into the audio ether as Linn's top-dog Klimax Exakt is a 2-box system - the speakers and the streaming box - other configurations are available which involve multiple boxes for other speakers - but you can purchase a complete 2-box Klimax Exakt system.

So your definition of 'hi-fi' has been outdated and outmoded years ago.

Klimax Exakt is not an all-in-one system, even less a 850 GBP one. Naim Mu-So is an all-in-one Lifestyle system, not Hi-Fi. If you are impressed how Mu-So sounds, thats OK, to you that is impressive. To me, a refined and groomed audiophile, it will impress as much as a McDonalds lunch.

 

[chebby]

Yes chebby but time has moved on and a lot of people, maybe younger people don't have CDs and just want to stream their music. I would love a streamer that has wifi, Bluetooth, Internet radio and AirPlay to go with a pair of speakers in the £500 price range like dali zensor 3 or concept 20s. However there doesn't seem to be one at has all that functionality. I don't ever listen to CDs so need a decent streaming solution.

So what was I saying here? ...

http://www.whathifi.com/comment/858177#comment-858177

I have only played two CDs in the last three and half years on my 'all-in-one' Marantz (one of them just for a few minutes to test it worked). I use AirPlay about 80 percent of time for many hours a day (I mostly work from home) and the rest of the time - a couple of hours in the evening - for sound from the TV/Blu-ray/PVR via an optical connection to it's DAC.

I was just pointing out that the Marantz (and Denon) can be seen as 'dual use'. Totally wireless/streaming/DAC connected and AirPlay etc. or totally conventional with it's built-in DAB/FM and CD. (Some people may even plug in a turntable via the spare analogue RCA input.)

 

[manicm]

Pointlessly or not, you're banging on semantics. Topographically systems like the Mu-so may not be 'hi-fi', as Malcolm Steward said. In the same breath he was also smitten by the system. If the device is engaging and moving me musically then to me it's hifi. You and others may quite rightly beg to differ but I don't care.

And neither does Linn - your statement 'All-In-One is not High-Fidelity by its very purpose and design' has been blown into the audio ether as Linn's top-dog Klimax Exakt is a 2-box system - the speakers and the streaming box - other configurations are available which involve multiple boxes for other speakers - but you can purchase a complete 2-box Klimax Exakt system.

So your definition of 'hi-fi' has been outdated and outmoded years ago.

Klimax Exakt is not an all-in-one system, even less a 850 GBP one. Naim Mu-So is an all-in-one Lifestyle system, not Hi-Fi. If you are impressed how Mu-So sounds, thats OK, to you that is impressive. To me, a refined and groomed audiophile, it will impress as much as a McDonalds lunch.

Go to the Linn website Vladimir, the Linn Klimax Exakt consists of the speakers and the streamer. Here's the link if you think I'm tossing www.linn.co.uk/systems/see-the-range/klimax.

Here's a quote from the page: 'Comprising Klimax Exakt DSM digital music player and and Klimax Exakt 350 speakers...'

 

[Vladimir]

Pointlessly or not, you're banging on semantics. Topographically systems like the Mu-so may not be 'hi-fi', as Malcolm Steward said. In the same breath he was also smitten by the system. If the device is engaging and moving me musically then to me it's hifi. You and others may quite rightly beg to differ but I don't care.

And neither does Linn - your statement 'All-In-One is not High-Fidelity by its very purpose and design' has been blown into the audio ether as Linn's top-dog Klimax Exakt is a 2-box system - the speakers and the streaming box - other configurations are available which involve multiple boxes for other speakers - but you can purchase a complete 2-box Klimax Exakt system.

So your definition of 'hi-fi' has been outdated and outmoded years ago.

Klimax Exakt is not an all-in-one system, even less a 850 GBP one. Naim Mu-So is an all-in-one Lifestyle system, not Hi-Fi. If you are impressed how Mu-So sounds, thats OK, to you that is impressive. To me, a refined and groomed audiophile, it will impress as much as a McDonalds lunch.

Go to the Linn website Vladimir, the Linn Klimax Exakt consists of the speakers and the streamer. Here's the link if you think I'm tossing www.linn.co.uk/systems/see-the-range/klimax.

Here's a quote from the page: 'Comprising Klimax Exakt DSM digital music player and and Klimax Exakt 350 speakers...'

When they cram that streamer box inside the speakers I may consider it an all-in-one hi-fi.

 

[andyrich_2000]

What do you guys think the naim muso would sound like Hooked up to a tv? As good as a soundbar?

do you think it could be placed in an av rack? Or would that ruin the sound? Bare with me I'm such a newb :-(

 

[Vladimir]

Pointlessly or not, you're banging on semantics. Topographically systems like the Mu-so may not be 'hi-fi', as Malcolm Steward said. In the same breath he was also smitten by the system. If the device is engaging and moving me musically then to me it's hifi. You and others may quite rightly beg to differ but I don't care.

And neither does Linn - your statement 'All-In-One is not High-Fidelity by its very purpose and design' has been blown into the audio ether as Linn's top-dog Klimax Exakt is a 2-box system - the speakers and the streaming box - other configurations are available which involve multiple boxes for other speakers - but you can purchase a complete 2-box Klimax Exakt system.

So your definition of 'hi-fi' has been outdated and outmoded years ago.

Klimax Exakt is not an all-in-one system, even less a 850 GBP one. Naim Mu-So is an all-in-one Lifestyle system, not Hi-Fi. If you are impressed how Mu-So sounds, thats OK, to you that is impressive. To me, a refined and groomed audiophile, it will impress as much as a McDonalds lunch.

Go to the Linn website Vladimir, the Linn Klimax Exakt consists of the speakers and the streamer. Here's the link if you think I'm tossing www.linn.co.uk/systems/see-the-range/klimax.

Here's a quote from the page: 'Comprising Klimax Exakt DSM digital music player and and Klimax Exakt 350 speakers...'

When they cram that streamer box inside the speakers I may consider it an all-in-one hi-fi.

You're being argumentative for the sake of it, and you know it. They've crammed the DAC into the speakers, if not the streaming:

Quote 'Fed by a single digital input each Klimax Exakt 350 delivers six independently controllable channels, each with its own volume control, DAC and power amplifier'.

The Klimax Exakt system is therefore essentially an integrated system. And many all-in-ones also require external speakers like your Marantz 610 etc etc.

I have an integrated amplifier with Bluetooth Apt-X embedded and a pair of passive speakers. Is this an all-in-one system?

 

[manicm]

Pointlessly or not, you're banging on semantics. Topographically systems like the Mu-so may not be 'hi-fi', as Malcolm Steward said. In the same breath he was also smitten by the system. If the device is engaging and moving me musically then to me it's hifi. You and others may quite rightly beg to differ but I don't care.

And neither does Linn - your statement 'All-In-One is not High-Fidelity by its very purpose and design' has been blown into the audio ether as Linn's top-dog Klimax Exakt is a 2-box system - the speakers and the streaming box - other configurations are available which involve multiple boxes for other speakers - but you can purchase a complete 2-box Klimax Exakt system.

So your definition of 'hi-fi' has been outdated and outmoded years ago.

Klimax Exakt is not an all-in-one system, even less a 850 GBP one. Naim Mu-So is an all-in-one Lifestyle system, not Hi-Fi. If you are impressed how Mu-So sounds, thats OK, to you that is impressive. To me, a refined and groomed audiophile, it will impress as much as a McDonalds lunch.

Go to the Linn website Vladimir, the Linn Klimax Exakt consists of the speakers and the streamer. Here's the link if you think I'm tossing www.linn.co.uk/systems/see-the-range/klimax.

Here's a quote from the page: 'Comprising Klimax Exakt DSM digital music player and and Klimax Exakt 350 speakers...'

When they cram that streamer box inside the speakers I may consider it an all-in-one hi-fi.

You're being argumentative for the sake of it, and you know it. They've crammed the DAC into the speakers, if not the streaming:

Quote 'Fed by a single digital input each Klimax Exakt 350 delivers six independently controllable channels, each with its own volume control, DAC and power amplifier'.

The Klimax Exakt system is therefore essentially an integrated system. The Exakt DSM in fact only contains an analogue-to-digital converter, not a DAC. And many all-in-ones also require external speakers like your Marantz 610 etc etc.

 

[andyrich_2000]

Will marantz bring out an upgrade to the mcr610 soon? It seems no streamer has both Bluetooth and AirPlay :-(

 

[Snooker]

Vladimir

Just curious would you count the Naim Qute as a real proper hi-fi with a real proper hi-fi sound ?

I have listened at hi-fi exibitions to expensive systems, but they are very selective in what they play, for me it comes mainly comes down to how well the original source recording is in the first place, as some songs from the internet radio on my system sound much better than others, and some cd tracks will sound much better than others, because you are going to get a significant difference in some previous recorded source recordings, and am sure that this will be the case for any hi-fi system that these different tracks are played on

Or in other words with really good source material I am very happy with what I hear through my Denon Ceol N8 system, and don't believe there is as big a jump in sound quality as some people think there is with separates etc

 

[manicm]

Pointlessly or not, you're banging on semantics. Topographically systems like the Mu-so may not be 'hi-fi', as Malcolm Steward said. In the same breath he was also smitten by the system. If the device is engaging and moving me musically then to me it's hifi. You and others may quite rightly beg to differ but I don't care.

And neither does Linn - your statement 'All-In-One is not High-Fidelity by its very purpose and design' has been blown into the audio ether as Linn's top-dog Klimax Exakt is a 2-box system - the speakers and the streaming box - other configurations are available which involve multiple boxes for other speakers - but you can purchase a complete 2-box Klimax Exakt system.

So your definition of 'hi-fi' has been outdated and outmoded years ago.

Klimax Exakt is not an all-in-one system, even less a 850 GBP one. Naim Mu-So is an all-in-one Lifestyle system, not Hi-Fi. If you are impressed how Mu-So sounds, thats OK, to you that is impressive. To me, a refined and groomed audiophile, it will impress as much as a McDonalds lunch.

Go to the Linn website Vladimir, the Linn Klimax Exakt consists of the speakers and the streamer. Here's the link if you think I'm tossing www.linn.co.uk/systems/see-the-range/klimax.

Here's a quote from the page: 'Comprising Klimax Exakt DSM digital music player and and Klimax Exakt 350 speakers...'

When they cram that streamer box inside the speakers I may consider it an all-in-one hi-fi.

You're being argumentative for the sake of it, and you know it. They've crammed the DAC into the speakers, if not the streaming:

Quote 'Fed by a single digital input each Klimax Exakt 350 delivers six independently controllable channels, each with its own volume control, DAC and power amplifier'.

The Klimax Exakt system is therefore essentially an integrated system. And many all-in-ones also require external speakers like your Marantz 610 etc etc.

I have an integrated amplifier with Bluetooth Apt-X embedded and a pair of passive speakers. Is this an all-in-one system?

If you ignore Bluetooth (will that be your only source? No!), it still requires one more box than the Exakt DSM system because you'll need another box if want to do alternative streaming like from a NAS etc.

All I'm saying is your idea of hi-fi having to consist of multiple boxes has been shot to the great audio graveyard in the sky.

 

[Vladimir]

Will marantz bring out an upgrade to the mcr610 soon? It seems no streamer has both Bluetooth and AirPlay :-(

The Pioneer N-50 is a good choice, but its just a standalone streamer. No amp.