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All digital users need to hear this, JPLAY

chasefrench

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Mar 16, 2011
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All digital users have probably tried out WASAPI and ASIO or even maybe Kernel Streaming. I have tried all 3 and was left underwhelmed. Then I heard about this....

http://jplay.eu/

It is quite extraordinary the effect it has. It costs 100 euros but they have a free trial version. I will be buying the full version shortly.

I really recommend you have a listen.

(I am in no way affiliated with this company, remember to set the bit streaming option to -6db, also if you set it 24bit output, it will upsample your flac collection which again made a nice difference)

Post back with your opinions.
 

chasefrench

New member
Mar 16, 2011
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Also set it to xstream mode, it causes a delay of upto 10secs before the song plays but it sounds amazing
 

bluedroog

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Mar 4, 2010
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This does seem to becoming very popular, not tried it yet myself. Doesn't it 'buffer' the track first and then play it to reduce background noise. I'm clearly no expert! But something along those lines. I've heard very good reports.
 

chasefrench

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Mar 16, 2011
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It loads the entire song to the ram so it doesnt run off the hard disk, then it bypasses all the windows functions that deal with playback and using its own proprietary code. Does a load of other stuff. Really recommend you try it.

The demo version cuts out every 2mins briefly but gives you a taste of all the other functions.

I just purchased my copy!
 

mpapo

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Jan 15, 2011
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I can't imagine this sounding better than using Foobar2000 with WASAPI plug-in ?
 

Overdose

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Feb 8, 2008
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chasefrench said:
It is quite extraordinary the effect it has. It costs 100 euros but they have a free trial version....also if you set it 24bit output, it will upsample your flac collection which again made a nice difference
I think 'quite extraordinary' might be a little over the top, it sounds a bit like a 'night and day' claim. Interesting that setting it to output 24 bit would improve a lossless format, this would imply a change in the file somehow.

I haven't tried it yet though, as I haven't got access to my system for comparisons, maybe I'll try it over headphones.
 

paradiziac

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Jan 8, 2011
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In my experience, the computer hardware and the software makes a difference.

How much of a difference depends on the individual circumstances.

But the best thing about software is that you don't have to speculate, just download the trial and away you go.

Great for serial tweakers as well ;)

I use Audirvana, which does a similar job on the Mac.
 

paradiziac

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Jan 8, 2011
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Overdose said:
I think 'quite extraordinary' might be a little over the top, it sounds a bit like a 'night and day' claim. Interesting that setting it to output 24 bit would improve a lossless format, this would imply a change in the file somehow.
Maybe "extraordinary" if you weren't expecting it? IMO, software players make subtle differences.

From the JPlay guide

http://jplay.eu/computer-audio/jplay-beginners-guide/

It seems that at least some DACs have a ‘preference’ for Bitstream size. This means that even if you play e.g. CD 16-bit material it may be better to expand it to 24 or 32-bits by adding zeroes.

Some DACs do prefer 24bits, I've experienced this myself. Which doesn't mean that 24 bits is "better", just "more suitable" for that particular DAC. As for changing the file, it's just adding a bunch of zeros. It's not the same as upsampling to, say, 24/96 or 24/192 which isn't supported in JPlay as the developer doesn't believe in it.
 

Overdose

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2008
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I took 'extraordinary' in the context it was written in the OP. Looking at the testimonials on the web page should also prime you to be expecting a special experience.

That said, I will give it a try, as I am well aware that some software on some OSs do effect the sound delivered. iTunes for example will over drive my preamp section and cause clipping, if I do not get the digital volume levels set right.
 

Overdose

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2008
279
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18,890
I took 'extraordinary' in the context it was written in the OP. Looking at the testimonials on the web page should also prime you to be expecting a special experience.

That said, I will give it a try, as I am well aware that some software on some OSs do effect the sound delivered. iTunes for example will over drive my preamp section and cause clipping, if I do not get the digital volume levels set right.
 

paradiziac

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Jan 8, 2011
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My point was just that differences often seem more amazing when you're not expecting much, and given the OP's reported underwhelming experience of other software players I took that to be the case. So we're in agreement :)
 

chasefrench

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Mar 16, 2011
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Compared to Songbird, it was Night and Day, Foobar and WASAPI might not be so much, but in my opinion will still be better
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I downloaded a free 30 day trial of JRiver Music Center yesterday after I had seen posts from SteveR750 on it.

It offers a huge amount more functionality than iTunes which I was convinced I wouldn't stray away from because it is so user friendly and has a great remote app for iTouch.

JRiver enable WASAPI-Event Mode and shows whether bit perfect output is being achieved - this is basically all the time in this mode other than if effects are used. It also very handily advises you why bit perfect output is not being achieved when it is not - i.e. you have selected effects such as simulated subwoofer.

Music quality is excellent, and I think a little bit improved upon iTunes. Functionality and ability to customise leaves iTunes standing.

I will be buying before the end of the trial period.
 

krazy_olie

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Aug 19, 2011
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Fairly sure that increasing the asio buffer would be a good idea for less cost to be honest.
putting a -6db would surely not make it bit perfect...
The benfit of is it that you would prevent clipping in the dac, but also lose some dynamic range... effectively this is the same as turning down the volume of your player a notch or 2.

outputting 16 bit audio in 24 bit audio is not upsampling, it is changing the bit depth . Who knows what on earth it's doing to do to the output?

FWIW Wasapi is not guaranteed to be bit perfect. It can be, but it depends on many things, largely the driver. ASIO is bit perfect from the point it leaves your player, if you have any volume/eq/dsp going it will be bit perfect AFTER that, though depends on the player some will automatically bypass volume if using ASIO. Most dacs don't come with asio drivers... they should though.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
SteveD said:
I downloaded a free 30 day trial of JRiver Music Center yesterday after I had seen posts from SteveR750 on it.

It offers a huge amount more functionality than iTunes which I was convinced I wouldn't stray away from because it is so user friendly and has a great remote app for iTouch.

JRiver enable WASAPI-Event Mode and shows whether bit perfect output is being achieved - this is basically all the time in this mode other than if effects are used. It also very handily advises you why bit perfect output is not being achieved when it is not - i.e. you have selected effects such as simulated subwoofer.

Music quality is excellent, and I think a little bit improved upon iTunes. Functionality and ability to customise leaves iTunes standing.

I will be buying before the end of the trial period.
Just to add that after a day listening I realised I didn't do JRiver justice - sound is noticeably better than playing through iTunes (presumably due to cutting out the windows processing) and sending the music direct to the DAC.

Also love the feature of playing with the display in Theatre mode where it pulls down screenshots relevant to what you are playing similar to a screensaver but with the track info overlaid, although can be a bit obscure on occasion. It must pull images from the web when uploading the music from your drives into the software or during the track.

The War of the Worlds played back pictures and illustrations that I haven't seen since I was about 14 listening to it on tape on my dad's music centre and reading the accompanying book he had bought. Nice touch!

Thanks for the heads up Steve R750.
 

paradiziac

New member
Jan 8, 2011
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SteveD said:
Just to add that after a day listening I realised I didn't do JRiver justice - sound is noticeably better than playing through iTunes (presumably due to cutting out the windows processing) and sending the music direct to the DAC.
So now for the ultimate step, you just have to try JPlay (which can run inside JRiver) and tell us if you think it's any different!

IMO, iTunes on Windows is a poor choice. There's not just the Windows processing, but the bloatware that is Quicktime. I haven't tried JPlay because I mainly use a Mac.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Don't understand how JPLAY could enhance the sound further without influencing the output and therefore manipulating the file, as JRiver plays a bit perfect (completely unmanipulated) stream from the file to the DAC using either Wasapi-Event Manager (which I am using) or ASIO and uses a 64 bit capable interface?

Will have to look it up.
 

paradiziac

New member
Jan 8, 2011
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SteveD said:
Don't understand how JPLAY could enhance the sound further without influencing the output and therefore manipulating the file, as JRiver plays a bit perfect (completely unmanipulated) stream from the file to the DAC using either Wasapi-Event Manager (which I am using) or ASIO and uses a 64 bit capable interface?
I don't understand either :)

They say there's more to it than "bit perfect"...

http://jplay.eu/faq/ -- point 5.

Which is followed by point 6. -- it's FREE to try so just have a listen...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Yep, just had a good read this time, not sure my laptop will have enough processing oomph for what it seems to want to do in terms of memory playback etc/recommended RAM requiremen etc but I'll soon find out...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I was really curious to hear this but after spending several hours last night by-passing system administrator rules (I am the administrator on my laptop!?) to enable it to be downloaded and then trying to get it to play something I think I've given up.

I downloaded the trial version of JPLAY for JRiver and although I don't consider myself to be lacking in intelligence I have conceded defeat on this I think. Seems to be either incredibly system hungry (I have Vista running on a Toshiba with Intel Core Duo with 3GB RAM which should be okay though not ideal) or it's very temperamental/full of bugs.

The only file I could get it to play was Molly Malone which is an erroneous file in my catalogue listed in the software as a "mid" file (whatever that is!). I know it will only play lossless files but couldn't get any sound from any of those even when it was prepared to play them and not send up some error message.

I'm sure it must sound amazing when it works, if only a placebo effect brought on by the euphoria of getting the bluudy thing to work.

Thanks for the heads up anyway Chasefrench (genuinely) but I guess it's not going to work for me.

Any tips you can provide would be appreciated please?
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2005
511
16
18,895
J River does all of that for les than $40, plus you get discounted upgrades (I migrated from MC15 to MC17 for $26).

I've set mine to play from RAM not the HD, either in WASAPI-Event (which avoids clocking errors with the PC clock), ASIO via USB using cambridges own drivers. Bit depth set to 24, all DSP is done in the 64 bit operating environment, so has negligible degradation to the streamed data.
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2005
511
16
18,895
SteveD said:
SteveD said:
I downloaded a free 30 day trial of JRiver Music Center yesterday after I had seen posts from SteveR750 on it.

It offers a huge amount more functionality than iTunes which I was convinced I wouldn't stray away from because it is so user friendly and has a great remote app for iTouch.

JRiver enable WASAPI-Event Mode and shows whether bit perfect output is being achieved - this is basically all the time in this mode other than if effects are used. It also very handily advises you why bit perfect output is not being achieved when it is not - i.e. you have selected effects such as simulated subwoofer.

Music quality is excellent, and I think a little bit improved upon iTunes. Functionality and ability to customise leaves iTunes standing.

I will be buying before the end of the trial period.
Just to add that after a day listening I realised I didn't do JRiver justice - sound is noticeably better than playing through iTunes (presumably due to cutting out the windows processing) and sending the music direct to the DAC.

Also love the feature of playing with the display in Theatre mode where it pulls down screenshots relevant to what you are playing similar to a screensaver but with the track info overlaid, although can be a bit obscure on occasion. It must pull images from the web when uploading the music from your drives into the software or during the track.

The War of the Worlds played back pictures and illustrations that I haven't seen since I was about 14 listening to it on tape on my dad's music centre and reading the accompanying book he had bought. Nice touch!

Thanks for the heads up Steve R750.
You're welcome, I got it based upon bigboss or maybe drummermans experience a while ago. The interact forum is excellent, though the developers do oversell it a bit for my liking. It's well worth tweaking the settings, particulalry buffer speed, bit depth settings and resampling rates for non standard tracks (e.g. my old dacmagic didnt recognise 88k to had to upsample to 96). Make sure your sondcard settings in windows (not J River) are set to allow exclusive mode, and allow programe to take control. These are two critical check boxes in the windows soundcard settings! Once these are checked, then the rest of the soundcard settings are overridden by MC.
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2005
511
16
18,895
Just tried running JPLAY inside J River, and it failed. Installed OK, and managed to play a couple of tracks at the default settings, didn't notice they were any better particularly, but before I could really try it out I tried to change the setting per the guide on their website. Well, I couldnt even open the settings - tried double clicking the J River taskbar, nothing. click the icon tray, nothing, however by now the programme had frozen silently playing a track which I could not stop either with the PC controls, or Gizmo. Opened Task manager in windows which showed the programme running as normal.

That was enough to convince me it is far from stable, so I immediately uninstalled, sorry but if you want €10 let alone €99 then it has to work, even before you consider the resultant benefits in SQ. I'm afraid my opinion is that it is a cynical rip off.....
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It's not just me and my particular laptop then, still it was worth exploring for a free trial just to see I guess albeit with disappointing results.

V happy with JRiver as is anyway and thanks for the comments on that above, am set up that way so all good.
 

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