Advice welcome: Marantz MCR-610 or Sony MAP-S1

[Sam Peters]

Hi There,

I'm looking to replace my current AV set up (Denon AVR-1911, Q Acoustics 1000i's and Sonos Connect) with a smaller all in one system, partly because I now want a set up focused around music rather than surround sound and partly because my other half wants something simpler to use (that doesn't need to involve a smartphone to play music/radio).

I've been looking at the all in one solutions from Marantz and Sony as space is an issue, clearly the Marantz gets great reviews but if in the future I wanted to power larger speakers in a larger room would i be stuck with an underpowered system? I can't see any reviews of the Sony MAP-S1 so wondered if anyone here had any experience with it?

Is there something else I should be considering instead of these (bearing in mind that the range of connectivity, CD, NAS, Spotify, Airplay, Internet Radio and DAB are important to me).

Thanks in advance for any advice

Sam

 

[chebby]

... clearly the Marantz gets great reviews but if in the future I wanted to power larger speakers in a larger room would i be stuck with an underpowered system?

If this future scenario is a certainty in the short-term (large room + large speakers) then forget it.

If it's a long way off then get what you need now and enjoy it.

 

[davedotco]

Hi There,

I'm looking to replace my current AV set up (Denon AVR-1911, Q Acoustics 1000i's and Sonos Connect) with a smaller all in one system, partly because I now want a set up focused around music rather than surround sound and partly because my other half wants something simpler to use (that doesn't need to involve a smartphone to play music/radio).

I've been looking at the all in one solutions from Marantz and Sony as space is an issue, clearly the Marantz gets great reviews but if in the future I wanted to power larger speakers in a larger room would i be stuck with an underpowered system? I can't see any reviews of the Sony MAP-S1 so wondered if anyone here had any experience with it?

Is there something else I should be considering instead of these (bearing in mind that the range of connectivity, CD, NAS, Spotify, Airplay, Internet Radio and DAB are important to me).

Thanks in advance for any advice

Sam

The Sony has less fubctionality than the Marantz and is no more powerful, given the price the Marantz is an obvious choice.

Extending and improving the system is limited though, there is a fixed level audio out so there are possibilities.

A pair of Dynaudio XEOs for example would work nicely, give you wireless connection and a system with serious room filling capabilities. I was looking at these recently, not cheap but good and there are other options I'm sure.

 

[Gonepostal]

Just seen a pair of Dynaudio xeo 3 on an auction site for £695 inc the transmitter which seems like a bargain if anyone is nterested.

 

[MajorFubar]

I've only heard the Marantz and can at least recommend that with confidence. All these people who reckon 50W/ch or less is underpowered, I'd love to know what castles they're living in, or what nightclubs they're trying to fill with a HiFi amp. Or maybe they've just got really inefficient speakers? Some very wise person on here (whose username I do genuinely now forget) once said that it's all about the first Watt. The majority of people rarely listen loud enough to need more than a 10W RMS amp at most, providing there's a beefy power supply behind it to deliver that power cleanly. Sit 1m away from 90db speakers, feed them with 1 Watt of power and your ears will be exposed to sound as loud as a pneumatic drill.

 

[davedotco]

I've only heard the Marantz and can at least recommend that with confidence. All these people who reckon 50W/ch or less is underpowered, I'd love to know what castles they're living in, or what nightclubs they're trying to fill with a HiFi amp. Or maybe they've just got really inefficient speakers? Some very wise person on here (whose username I do genuinely now forget) once said that it's all about the first Watt. The majority of people rarely listen loud enough to need more than a 10W RMS amp at most, providing there's a beefy power supply behind it to deliver that power cleanly. Sit 1m away from 90db speakers, feed them with 1 Watt of power and your ears will be exposed to sound as loud as a pneumatic drill.

Exactly the point.

I know this is going to extremes but the Marantz and the Creek have very similar nominal power outputs, the Marantz power supply draws a maximum of 55watts, the Creek 330watts.......*unknw*

 

[Snooker]

I agree largely with the above comments by MajorFubar

My system produces around 48.75w into 6ohm speakers (65w into 4ohms given on specifications), and I find the volume turned up to no more than 25% is "more" than load enough which is around a speaker input given the maths above, of around 12.19w, and presume as it could go to 4 times this value that the power supply will be designed to work perfectly well at just 25% of its maximum output

I also feel it would be fine in powering speakers which are 8ohms as well, at again 12.19w speaker input which would mean my volume control would be at the 37.5% mark, and presume as it could go to 2.7 times this value, that the power supply would still be designed to work perfectly well at just 37.5% of its maximum output

I suppose if you needed higher volumes to fill a bigger room, that it would be more down to the quality of the amplifier audio circuits keeping the same signiture of sound at louder volumes, and this may be of course what mainly differentiates different amplifiers and how good the speakers are at higher volumes, rather than just going on power alone etc

So its all down to quality of amplifier and speakers as oppose to how much power output you have (just so long as you have enough output, as above regarding my system as a rough guide and example)

 

[davedotco]

I agree largely with the above comments by MajorFubar

My system produces around 48.75w into 6ohm speakers (65w into 4ohms given on specifications), and I find the volume turned up to no more than 25% is "more" than load enough which is around a speaker input given the maths above, of around 12.19w, and presume as it could go to 4 times this value that the power supply will be designed to work perfectly well at just 25% of its maximum output

I also feel it would be fine in powering speakers which are 8ohms as well, at again 12.19w speaker input which would mean my volume control would be at the 37.5% mark, and presume as it could go to 2.7 times this value, that the power supply would still be designed to work perfectly well at just 37.5% of its maximum output

I suppose if you needed higher volumes to fill a bigger room, that it would be more down to the quality of the amplifier audio circuits keeping the same signiture of sound at louder volumes, and this may be of course what mainly differentiates different amplifiers and how good the speakers are at higher volumes, rather than just going on power alone etc

So its all down to quality of amplifier and speakers as oppose to how much power output you have (just so long as you have enough output, as above regarding my system as a rough guide and example)

The setting on your volume control bears absolutely no relationship to the power delivered by the amplifier.

Speakers are not simple resistive loads so you can not calculate power in the way that you have done.

Other than that, spot on.....*good*

 

[MajorFubar]

Exactly the point.

I know this is going to extremes but the Marantz and the Creek have very similar nominal power outputs, the Marantz power supply draws a maximum of 55watts, the Creek 330watts.......*unknw*

To the naive it's all about chasing Watts and the mainstream manufacturers love this, even though the truth is far more complex. In fact the manufacturers actively encourage it, in the same way that some of them are now telling us we we need 'better than CD quality' HD audio even though we very clearly do not. But hey it's potentially another lucrative bandwagon and an excuse to ship-out all the old albums as new HD remasters and get people to buy them all over again. So like power output, you can understand the manufacturers' delight in the average consumer's ignorance of the subject. Ignorance makes consumers more pliable and susceptible to suggestion from sources they've been indoctrined to trust.

 

[Snooker]

davedotco, thanks for reply that I am otherwise spot on

Yes you are right in what you are saying as regarding the power going to the speakers the scale will of course be non linear (should have picked that up from the MajorFubar post as he said it was about the first watt mainly etc, and therefore I now totally agree with everything he said and not just largely as I stated in reply to his post)

So I was partly wrong in my post, but the loudness of the sound heard from the speakers will of course vary according to what position the volume control is set at, and that the increase in the loudness of the sound heard from the speakers will be linear compared to the volume set on the volume control *smile*

 

[davedotco]

davedotco, thanks for reply that I am otherwise spot on

Yes you are right in what you are saying as regarding the power going to the speakers the scale will of course be non linear (should have picked that up from the MajorFubar post as he said it was about the first watt mainly etc, and therefore I now totally agree with everything he said and not just largely as I stated in reply to his post)

So I was partly wrong in my post, but the loudness of the sound heard from the speakers will of course vary according to what position the volume control is set at, and that the increase in the loudness of the sound heard from the speakers will be linear compared to the volume set on the volume control *smile*

No. The way the volume control works is entirely at the whim of the designer, sure turn it up and the music gets louder, but that is about all you can say.

It is unfortunate, but most mainstream hi-fi is built so that the volume gets very loud very quickly. On a 'conventional' rotary volume normal listening is often around 9-10 o'clock, it is designed this way as the unwary will think that, if the setup is quite loud at those settings, just think how loud it will go at 3 o'clock.

Unfortunately this is simply not the case, the amplifier is most likely running out of power at 12 o'clock and clipping hard beyond this point. It simply runs out of power. Turning any amplifier up, on a music signal, just enough that you can hear a clear but small increase in volume will, realistically take twice the power, a pretty sobering thought. You really do not have to go far to overdrive the amp beyond it's capabilities.

This is an old point but amplifiers over driven in this way are responsible for the majority of speaker failures and the amp will give up too, eventually.

 

[unsleepable]

Adding to this, the fast increase in volume also frequently causes little precission at low volume. A good example of this was the Naim XS-2 I used to have, which got loud very fast but made it very difficult to set the precise volume I wanted, and the channels were imbalanced when playing music very low.

On the other hand, the Arcam A19 and A38 implement a superb volume control. It uses a resistor network instead of a potentiometer, so even though it is analogue, it can be controlled digitally and does not require a motor. It allows setting the volume linearly in 0.5 dB increments, and it suffers from none of the issues described previously. Since I started by mentioning Naim, it's only fair to also say that the Naim DAC-V1 also implements a volume control similar to the A19 that works equally great.

Incidentally, the A19 is also specified as 50 watt per channel, and draws a maximum current of 350W.