Question Advice needed regarding audio equipment (choice & placement)

[Elonian]

Not sure if this is the correct forum for this specific post, if I overlooked a more suitable one please move my thread.

I've recently gotten my own apartment, I'll be getting started on painting walls and throwing in flooring soon.

My question is mainly regarding the speaker placement in the apartment, and the types of speakers and equipment I should go for. I'm a huge music fan and I'd like to be able to enjoy movies sporadically (music will be the main focus in my case)

The last couple of days I've been making a floorplan with the furniture I have ready, I'm working on the cablework now since I want to hide most of my ethernet/tv cables. It's raised a question whether or not I should also include cablework for speakers.

Now for the main question; What positions would you suggest I'd place my speakers, and which specific pieces of equipment would you suggest when doing so? If possible I'd prefer some sort of wireless system if the placement involves wall mounts.

I'll include the floor plan / generated 3d pictures to give you an idea of what the place would look like. If you have any other suggestions regarding the furnishing/flooring/improvements for isolation please don't refrain from responding.

 

[insider9]

How often do you work from home? Is desk/computer space important to you? That would be the first space I'd sacrifice for hifi. You can always make sure your sofa is comfy and work on your laptop from there.

 

[Elonian]

How often do you work from home? Is desk/computer space important to you? That would be the first space I'd sacrifice for hifi. You can always make sure your sofa is comfy and work on your laptop from there.

The computer space is relatively important, I prefer working on a desktop with a dual screen. I mainly use headphones in that area.

I guess the main thing is to provide quality sound to the corner with the sofa and TV, and the bedroom as I also value music during nighttime activity if you catch my drift.

 

[insider9]

I get it. I prefer to work on desktop too. However sound quality was that important that I ultimately moved away from traditional setup. Got rid of the desk and "sacrificed" the space for hifi.

So keeping things as is there's ways you can put hifi in this space but acoustically you'll be dealing with potentially a few issues. It will be near field listening which makes choice of speakers more difficult. On top of that listening position close to a wall isn't optimal. In my opinion on wall speake are not hifi, but sure they still can play music.

It all comes down to what your expectations are as you can't cheat physics. You will be able to get decent quality but it won't be as much as you'd get having room setup for hifi. If connectivity is important Sonos would be worth looking at.

 

[Elonian]

I've had the idea of getting Sonos equipment floating around in my head for a while, I just discovered they also have shelf speakers at Ikea now (Sonos collab). Perhaps I could use some of those.

The thing is though, I really lack knowledge and experience regarding audio equipment. I have no clue what the optimal placement would be for speakers in this room setup. Perhaps I can swap out the room divider with something that's completely closed off. Would that improve the sound in the corner? Even if I were to get Sonos speakers I'd still like to hardwire them with ethernet cables for the sake of reliability. Would any location be fine for such speakers?

What I do recall is something about some types of speakers having to be at ear height for optimal sound, is that something you'd recommend?

 

[insider9]

Corners are usually not good for either speakers or listening position. You want to have both speakers and listening position away from walls if possible. The more room you can have for your hifi the better.

I know this advice isn't what most people are looking for. We have houses that we need to live in that's why my question of how important it is to you. Many systems can go in that space giving decent sound quality. I just don't know if you're looking for ultimate sound quality. There will be a sacrifice.

 

[Elonian]

Corners are usually not good for either speakers or listening position. You want to have both speakers and listening position away from walls if possible. The more room you can have for your hifi the better.

I know this advice isn't what most people are looking for. We have houses that we need to live in that's why my question of how important it is to you. Many systems can go in that space giving decent sound quality. I just don't know if you're looking for ultimate sound quality. There will be a sacrifice.

However much I'd prefer to have a dedicated HiFi space, I sadly don't have enough space for it. That's beside the fact I am not really a huge audiophile, I just really enjoy music and want it to sound as good as it possibly can within the constraints of the living area I have.

If I were to build a mount somewhere in the middle of the room for one of those Sonos Play 1 speakers or something similar, would that be better than a wall mounted speaker? I can play around with the sofa but I doubt I can have that many variations with the furniture I have at the moment. Most of the stuff in the picture are things I've already got or that I'll be getting as gifts from relatives and friends. I'm still missing the room divider so perhaps I could build something that works to improve audio quality within the room?

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Insider always offers great advice. Personally I would go for the sacrifice, most of us have to as it's difficult to have a usable living area and an audiophile domain occupying the same area... unless you have a dedicated man-cave.

 

[Elonian]

Insider always offers great advice. Personally I would go for the sacrifice, most of us have to as it's difficult to have a usable living area and an audiophile domain occupying the same area... unless you have a dedicated man-cave.

I do appreciate the advice, I'm just not able to sacrifice what I have to improve audio quality. I'm willing to redesign the setup of the room but I just don't have any other rooms to fit all of my stuff.

Could either one of you show me what the "optimal setup" would look like? Let's say I could take out the workspace, where and how would I position the couch and speakers? What are the most important things to keep in mind when placing equipment and positioning seating?

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Insider has far more experience than I setting up a truly audiophile system but this might be a good (simple) place to start: http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php
There's plenty more of this on the net.

Without space everyone has to make compromises, but this is what the beginning of an audiophile set-up will look like. You'll either be able to end up with optimal placement or get as near as possible to it whilst retaining a workable room with a system that sounds good but not optimal. It's hard but you have to make compromises either way.

My system sounded incredible with speakers placed in an equilateral triangle of 6 feet per side, but was a totally unworkable solution.

If you can't go for optimal, as many can't, just furnish the room as you want it and make the stereo fit it with your needs, it will still sound good... just not perfect.

 

[insider9]

That's some good info.

The way most would setup would be move separator away from the wall. So it sits ce really on the rug pictured. Place speakers either side of TV.

Probably the best you can get and quite near field at about 1.8m between speakers and about the same to listening position.

 

[Elonian]

Thanks for the replies guys,

I've gone through the process of trying to set up some speakers and making some changes in the planner program. Do you think these changes are good?

I was thinking about getting the Ikea Symfonisk (aka Sonos shelf speakers) which I could then combine with a Sonos sub and perhaps expand towards the shower and bedroom with either more of those, or just some of the Play:1 speakers.

Getting the speakers up to ear height whilst sitting down, and then turning them to face me seems to be the ideal setup for stereo sound quality from what I've read and heard, some other details I've heard is that moving the speakers away from the wall is also good for quality, correct me if I'm wrong.

Some other questions I have; would putting in a room divider (similar to the wooden one in the initial pictures) be hurtful towards sound quality?

Could a subwoofer be placed against a wall without loss of sound quality? Is the one pictured in the attachments located properly or should that be somewhere else?

 

[Jroot]

Just a note on sound waves and speaker placement. I noticed curtains and a rock(?) wall. Soft surfaces (curtains, carpet, etc) will tend to absorb higher frequencies while hard surfaces (rock, brick, and glass) will reflect them. If there is a glass door behind the curtains you may notice a difference with the curtains open and closed if a speaker is near or it's aimed at it. If this is a problem, just TURN IT UP 'TILL THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN! Then give him a beer and introduce yourself.

 

[Jroot]

p.s. Sound waves will follow a wall.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Don't know anything about Sonos systems. Think I'd wait to see how the bass is on the speakers before purchasing a sub. Personally I'd never use a sub with stereo... AV duties maybe, but not stereo. You need a room divider of some kind so go with the one in your images.

Once settled in play with speaker positioning until you get it right, or near as possible, speakers firing directly at you will sound brighter, if too bright then angle them away from you. I doubt you'll need any extra Sonos speakers.

N.B. Be aware that reading other articles on here it appears Sonos are designing in obsolescence to most of their kit, not sure but it could render your system obsolete with no support within 5 years, maybe something to bear in mind.

 

[Elonian]

Just a note on sound waves and speaker placement. I noticed curtains and a rock(?) wall. Soft surfaces (curtains, carpet, etc) will tend to absorb higher frequencies while hard surfaces (rock, brick, and glass) will reflect them. If there is a glass door behind the curtains you may notice a difference with the curtains open and closed if a speaker is near or it's aimed at it. If this is a problem, just TURN IT UP 'TILL THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN! Then give him a beer and introduce yourself.

Hey Jroot, thanks for the reply. The stone wall is just a good ol' wallpaper. Would you suggest putting up acousting panels or would that just be going overboard for no good reason?

I can totally get behind turning it up until the neighbours complain but I'd hate getting evicted before I even move in permanently, lmao. Perhaps beer can fix a lot for the relationship with my neighbours under the circumstance that they enjoy the same music I do.

 

[Elonian]

Don't know anything about Sonos systems. Think I'd wait to see how the bass is on the speakers before purchasing a sub. Personally I'd never use a sub with stereo... AV duties maybe, but not stereo. You need a room divider of some kind so go with the one in your images.

Once settled in play with speaker positioning until you get it right, or near as possible, speakers firing directly at you will sound brighter, if too bright then angle them away from you. I doubt you'll need any extra Sonos speakers.

N.B. Be aware that reading other articles on here it appears Sonos are designing in obsolescence to most of their kit, not sure but it could render your system obsolete with no support within 5 years, maybe something to bear in mind.

I'm a big fan of deep bass sounds, especially with my music. I could still follow your advice and go with some quality full range speakers.

Do you have any recommendations for audio equipment I could use for a longer time, keeping in mind that Sonos is designing their product in obsolescence? I could always get one of the bridge devices if I want to convert it to a multiroom system.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I'm a big fan of deep bass sounds, especially with my music. I could still follow your advice and go with some quality full range speakers.

Do you have any recommendations for audio equipment I could use for a longer time, keeping in mind that Sonos is designing their product in obsolescence? I could always get one of the bridge devices if I want to convert it to a multiroom system.

You will quickly find out if your neighbours are not fans of deep bass, bass frequency travels through walls and floors with the greatest of ease. The best set-up sub is one that you can hardly hear working.

It would appear that you want a life-style product for your musical pleasure, and said that you're a music lover not an audiophile, don't like the word really as I'm just a music lover too but I want to hear it in the best way possible within my budget. Afraid I'm more of a legacy product man myself and would take hard-wired over wireless every time. I'd take a guess that you are about 40 years younger than me

You've got an expensive period coming up with your new pad, give it some time and save some cash if you want a legacy system, about £1500-2000 should do it. "Insider" could do it cheaper for you, he'd have some great ideas

 

[Gray]

if you want a legacy system, about £1500-2000 should do it. "Insider" could do it cheaper for you, he'd have some great ideas

Makes Insider sound like a Delboy wheeler dealer. (Maybe he's been inside)

 

[Deleted member 108165]

He's just damned good at sniffing out a good system for a reduced outlay . But it's all gonna be down to another persons ears.

 

[Jroot]

Hey Jroot, thanks for the reply. The stone wall is just a good ol' wallpaper. Would you suggest putting up acousting panels or would that just be going overboard for no good reason?

I can totally get behind turning it up until the neighbours complain but I'd hate getting evicted before I even move in permanently, lmao. Perhaps beer can fix a lot for the relationship with my neighbours under the circumstance that they enjoy the same music I do.

 

[Jroot]

Sound panels seem to be a little extreme, but I haven't seen your new place. The photos are great, but it's like going to a concert rather than listening at home. It's hard to get a good picture of the acoustics involved. Also, the greatest impact on the overall sound will be the equipment involved. Speaker placement will have a huge effect, but the rest of the system will have to be up to your expectations.

 

[Jroot]

Is there anyone like "Insider" or "Delboy" you guys know of in the states? I need a replacement (after divorce) vintage system.

 

[Gray]

Is there anyone like "Insider" or "Delboy" you guys know of in the states? I need a replacement (after divorce) vintage system.

I thought prices (at least for new stuff) were more reasonable for you over there.
This place has become known as 'ripoff Britain'.
We often seem to be exploited. You wouldn't stand for it. The guns would come out.

 

[Jroot]

I don't know about pricing differences, but am sorry to hear it. Anyway, I'm looking for mid 70's hear. Preferably a Marantz receiver and good speakers to start.