Question Advice for amp/speaker pairing - Marantz

[bwcasnap]

Hi All,

I'm looking at buying the Marantz PM7000N and Q Acoustics, either 3030i or 3020i. I see the amp puts out 2x 60W into 8 ohm or 2 x 80W into 4 ohm. The 3030i has a min impedance of 4 ohms, average 6 ohms and recommends a stereo amp between 25-75 W. Is the amplifier too much for these speakers? Do I risk damaging the speakers because of the slightly higher wattage/ohm output on from the amp?

The reason - I'd like to invest in a slightly better amp now, with the goal of keeping it long term and possibly upgrading to bigger speakers later. The room is medium sized, so I don't need massive speakers for now. Any other recommendations for speakers around the same size to go with this amp?

Thanks for the advice,
B

 

[Deleted member 108165]

This amp is not too powerful for those speakers. An under-powered SS amp will cause more damage to speakers than a high powered amp, this amp is neither but be careful of volume levels. Don't try to use it as a disco amp for a party and you'll be fine.

What music source will you be using to feed the amp? Streaming, CD player, Turntable?

 

[bwcasnap]

This amp is not too powerful for those speakers. An under-powered SS amp will cause more damage to speakers than a high powered amp, this amp is neither but be careful of volume levels. Don't try to use it as a disco amp for a party and you'll be fine.

What music source will you be using to feed the amp? Streaming, CD player, Turntable?

Thanks. I never understood how under-powered amps damage speakers, but I'll take the expert's advice! I plan on streaming hi-res at the beginning, and then adding a CD player later. Eventually maybe a record player. Once I get around to it, a home music server...

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Thanks. I never understood how under-powered amps damage speakers, but I'll take the expert's advice! I plan on streaming hi-res at the beginning, and then adding a CD player later. Eventually maybe a record player. Once I get around to it, a home music server...

I'm no expert, my journey is the same as yours as in: read and assimilate information from more knowledgeable sources.

Within reason any amp driven too hard can fry tweeters by sending a clipped signal to the speakers. Google, Clipping (Audio), for a clearer understanding. Generally most amps will have a protection circuit which disables the amp output when it is unable to supply the output voltage required.

You can still blow speakers with a high powered amp if you aren't careful but they offer more safety with regard to a clipped signal. Unfortunately, high powered amps tend to command a high price tag.

 

[daytona600]

PM7000N sounds excellent with Def Tech Demand speakers as they are part of the same group D7/9/D11

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTYIIrfhLc0

 

[Deleted member 116933]

Thanks. I never understood how under-powered amps damage speakers, but I'll take the expert's advice! I plan on streaming hi-res at the beginning, and then adding a CD player later. Eventually maybe a record player. Once I get around to it, a home music server...

Theres a little more to it than just the amp, low powered amps don't nessarily clip or damage speakers but they demand more carful pairing with more sensitive speakers. I gave up chasing big expensive power and went with a low powered class A design with 20watts a side and really efficient 100db speakers, trust me the amp has plenty of power and head room, sounds like 1000watt mono blocks. Theres more than one way to skin cat as they say.

big power and inefficient speakers is a relatively new(ish) concept

but understand neither is wrong nor right

what your looking at is a fine amp and should see you through tbh, but is middle of the road with regards to power so you will have to be mindful in future to get reliantly easy to drive speakers

 

[bwcasnap]

PM7000N sounds excellent with Def Tech Demand speakers as they are part of the same group D7/9/D11

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTYIIrfhLc0

Thanks! I'll see if there is a dealer around here where I can listen, once this madness is over. I listened to the Q Acoustics and a few other similar speakers when I was living in Dublin and really liked the sound over the others. But, I don't think they had Def Tech.

 

[Al ears]

Definitive Technology speakers can be found at some Sevenoaks or Audio T stores.

 

[chris661]

An under-powered SS amp will cause more damage to speakers than a high powered amp, this amp is neither but be careful of volume levels. Don't try to use it as a disco amp for a party and you'll be fine.

I'm afraid that's not quite true.

When a small amplifier is turned up so that it's well into clipping, the peaks (kick/snare drums) are being chopped off but the RMS level (vocals, guitar etc - stuff that has sustained, rather than transient, energy) can still rise.

It's the rise of the sustained (RMS) power that kills speakers. Speakers themselves don't care what the waveform looks like. The thing that makes them hot (and burn out) is the RMS power level.

The extra harmonics that come in due to clipping are a tiny tiny fraction (we're talking of the order of a fraction of a percent) of the increase in power delivery - the real part is the increase in RMS signal levels.

Unfortunately, it's a myth that's perpetuated in many circles, and it's unlikely to go away any time soon.

Chris

 

[gasolin]

Definitive technology Demand, dali zensor 3, consider Q acoustics concept 20 over 3020i and 3030i over concept 20 for bass

How about Kef LS50?

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I'm afraid that's not quite true.

When a small amplifier is turned up so that it's well into clipping, the peaks (kick/snare drums) are being chopped off but the RMS level (vocals, guitar etc - stuff that has sustained, rather than transient, energy) can still rise.

It's the rise of the sustained (RMS) power that kills speakers. Speakers themselves don't care what the waveform looks like. The thing that makes them hot (and burn out) is the RMS power level.

The extra harmonics that come in due to clipping are a tiny tiny fraction (we're talking of the order of a fraction of a percent) of the increase in power delivery - the real part is the increase in RMS signal levels.

Unfortunately, it's a myth that's perpetuated in many circles, and it's unlikely to go away any time soon.

Chris

Your explanation has gone completely over my head. You are saying that low powered amps driven too hard do not damage speakers??... It is a myth that they fry tweeters?

I said to the OP to google it as I'm no expert, but appears that you are so I'll leave it to you. No offence taken or intended

 

[chris661]

I'm saying that it's possible to make a low-powered amp destroy speakers, but it's not destroying speakers because it's a low-powered amp.

Speakers get burnt out because they've got too hot. They get too hot because they've seen too much power. It's possible to get a fairly small amp to deliver too much power, but chances are there'll be lots of distortion.

My Crown MA12000i will happily destroy many speakers without ever lighting the clip lights.

Chris

 

[Roby]

My amp is 35w bs

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I'm saying that it's possible to make a low-powered amp destroy speakers, but it's not destroying speakers because it's a low-powered amp.

Speakers get burnt out because they've got too hot. They get too hot because they've seen too much power. It's possible to get a fairly small amp to deliver too much power, but chances are there'll be lots of distortion.

My Crown MA12000i will happily destroy many speakers without ever lighting the clip lights.

Chris

Is this distortion not clipping caused by the small amps inability to supply an un-clipped signal due to lack of power?

I fully understand that a powerful amp can destroy speakers if care is not taken. My question is more concerned with a small amp frying tweeters if driven too hard... is this the myth you are alluding to? Small amps don't fry tweeters?

 

[chris661]

Yes, the distortion is clipping.

The small amps frying tweeters is more to do with the speakers being pushed too hard, than it is about the small amplifier. A bigger amp would've done the same job.

Chris

 

[scene]

To put things in perspective, I have a pair of 3020i being driven by a venerable (2001) Arcam A85. The Arcam's output ratings are: 85W driving both channels at 8ohm, 140W driving a single channel at 4ohm. I don't get clipping or distortion on my speakers and they sound great. Yes, probably could do some damage if I turned the volume up to max, but I suspect my ears would be damaged before the speakers

If you like (lots of) bass, I'd advise the 3030i (they weren't available when I got the 3020i. But having said this, I find the 3020i great, and I listen to plenty of rock.