Add a Stereo Amp or Just Upgrade My AV Receiver?

[Anonymous]

Hmm, I feel your pain Knight.

I think we are still talking integrating music playback with home cinema kit - my original dilemna - so here goes.

First up I wouldn't rule out a Logitech Duet or the new one they have. The provenance is Slim Devices Squeezebox Classic which was a very well respected early dawn streamer. I still have one and hooked up to an offboard DAC, (and the logitech one is very good to begin with), it will give streamers many times its price a run for the money. You can also get all sorts of audiophile customisation done (power supply etc.) if you could be bothered. It will sound pants on your average AV receiver, but into a decent stereo amp and it should work nicely. And of course you have access to any http:// feed available.

Secondly, what about Last.fm as a way of accessing highly personalised streamed content via the Denon? You've got to have the patience for it (and I don't), but it will recommend music based on your profile and music playing habits (scrobbling) then store that for playback as a 'station' in the Denon. Nifty, but you only get back music what you put in in terms of declared preferences. It supports non iTunes software and platforms such as Windows Media Player and Android. Fun, perhaps. Under the bonnet though is a serious, slightly eerie social media / e-commerce operation that attempts to upsell you anything it finds. Not so fun.

And if you are really determined you could capture high quaity mp3 net radio streams, then store them on your NAS and playback at leisure. I started do this with the Denon and now have the files on my iPhone as well. There are various software solutions that willl help you automate this.

With regard to my own dilemma, I am abandoning my much loved Denon set up!

I had the very great pleasure of listening to an Arcam AVR600 today. Offers were made and a very tempting price was realised for an already discounted ex demo model which I am taking home on a trial basis. But my mind is made up already and all my other AV kit, a few bicycles and the kitchen sink will soon appear on ebay to fund my habit and assuage my terrible audio yearning.

So if you do reach a decision on a (nearly) new np720 ;-)

 

[CnoEvil]

I had the very great pleasure of listening to an Arcam AVR600 today. Offers were made and a very tempting price was realised for an already discounted ex demo model which I am taking home on a trial basis. But my mind is made up already and all my other AV kit, a few bicycles and the kitchen sink will soon appear on ebay to fund my habit and assuage my terrible audio yearning.

The AVR600 is a remarkable amp, but make sure (if you buy it), that you can still fill in the warranty card and get the 5 year cover.....very important for the piece of mind.

When I got mine, it was like getting a speaker upgrade as well.....the bass it produces is amazing.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks CNO,

Is the 5 year warranty standard or is it optional purchased axtra, like you would for a bog standard washing machine.

Cheers

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks CNO,

Is the 5 year warranty standard or is it optional purchased axtra, like you would for a bog standard washing machine.

Cheers

The warranty was free, but conditional on filling in the card (or online)....speak to the dealer as he should know.

 

[naughty573]

interesting dilemma - i was in a similar situation a month or two ago - my system comprises of a Denon 2808 receiver and Dali Ikon speakers all around .... Ikon 7's at the front and an Ikon Vokal 2 centre channel as well as Ikon 2's for the rears and some nondescript sony speakers for the surround back for 7.1 (i wanted a pair of Ikon on-walls for this but the Dali dealers in South Africa discontinued the brand so unfortunately i will now have to self import those if i really want them)

in surround mode everything was perfect but just as in your situation my older cheaper entry level systems were just a wee bit better at stereo music and i wanted to see if i could do the same but integrate everything into one system. So I tried a Rotel RA-06 with the ikon 7's and my CD player and this improved the stereo sound a bit but it also meant that when i connected the receivers front pre-outs to the aux input on the Rotel i had to contend with two volume potentiometers then i tried a Rotel RC1070 pre-amp with a RB1070 power amp which made the stereo mode even better but the same story interfered ie two volume pots when the preamp was included in the loop and i when i wanted to use the surround aspect of the system

My solution was to return all the Rotel stuff and get a Denon PMA2000AE which can function as an integrated amp OR it can be separated out into being a pre-amp only OR a power amp only, so effectively now i can use a separate system for CD and Vinyl playback - then with pressing one button i can convert the PMA2000AE into a power amp and switch on the receiver so that stereo system effectively serves as front surround speakers with the centre channel and rears all being powered directly from the receiver

the 1510 should also be able to do this pretty easily and to be honest i cannot see much difference between the PMA2000 and PMA200 nor much difference between those and the PMA1500 and PMA1510 because they have many features in common and the differences to me are mainly in the amounts of power they deliver. The PMA2000AE is rated as an Ultra High Current model and this is definitely borne out by the fact that it sounds louder/stronger than many amplifiers claiming twice its power output

so IMHO if you dont need the new reciever for new functionality like HDMI 1.4 or Dolby Pro-Logic IIz and if you dont have a fascination to try out height channels or width channels in the front and 11.2 audio for movies does not sound all that interesting to you I would rather invest in that better stereo amplifier for the front speakers and connect the stereo system as your fronts for surround via the receivers pre-outs as you originally envisaged ..... it is a method that has worked superbly for me because I now love the synergy between my cd player and stereo amp and speakers since it has brought back that feeling of making all my hairs stand on end and experiencing goosebumps when i hear my favorite CD's but it has allowed me to keep the rest of the setup exactly how i was comfortable with it.

I still dont need the plethora of online features (South Africa's internet connectivity leaves a lot to be desired and embarrassingly we are capped to such an extent that i cannot even download an entire DVD rip without hitting my cap limit) and I still havent bought into the idea of 3D so i dont really need HDMI 1.4 ..... Im going to wait for 3D without glasses and get on the technology roll again at that stage. So yep according to me your first instinct of a separate stereo amp was a decent idea that i really think you should stick to and investigate further

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you are a dedicated Denon fan as well?

For some time this was my preferred route and I played around with all sorts of options. Ultimately I agree, unless spending serious money on something like the AVR600, it's really difficult to get great stereo AND great home theatre surround sound in one box. Having a separate amp for stereo, then using it as a power amp for front speakers in surround mode takes some beating; and the stereo amp needn't be too high end to significantly better most mid range av receivers, such as the Denon 2809.

In the end though, the clutter, having to buy a new rack, the eco-unfriendliness and the quality of the Arcam line up convinced me to go for a one box solution. I don't regret it.

That said, it's been a hassle to find the best Arcam option. Arcam are really hit and miss with their quality of software and scrimp on features. I had an AVR600 for a couple of weeks which, despite sounding amazing, to my astonishment I found it doesn't support 24bit/96khz Flac - that's a good chunk of my library sent into exile already! Plus they are now asking £500 for a 3D upgrade.

After some retrialling, I had a change of heart on the AVR400, and since yesterday there is a new one sat on my rack (flanked by an Arcam BDP-100 I got at an ex display knock down price).

I'd say this is a good compromise; but it's a compromise nonetheless. You have to be content with Arcam's surround sound performance and the Denon was superb in this respect. Whereas the Denon was fuller, wider and generally more lager and chips, the Arcam is altogether more refined and (pleasingly to my ears) slightly more restrained. Not quite champagne and caviar, that's the AVR600. The main thig I have noticed so far is the Denon would start rocking to anything, kids programmes, sedate documentaries, even the BBC news intro tune, which gets a bit overbearing. The Arcam holds off a bit. But, despite its cool, the Arcam can definately party, when appropriate. Watching the ridiculously OTT 'Drive Angry' last night, the Arcam seemed to have no problem with my down market choice of initiation flick and got stuck in nicely.

The Arcam's stereo performance is very, very good indeed. When I first heard the AVR400 in the shop I though it a bit muddled in places, but a home trial disproves that. My room acoustics and setting the front speakers to bi-amp have all helped it get its feet under the table. So after the bat out of hell fun of Mssrs Cage and Heard, this amp later worked a stereo miracle with lo res streamed MP3 net radio and fully proved itself when asked to negotiate my collection of high res flac files.

One niggle, the display panel brightness does not dim fully and seems to have faint red lines behind it on full dimmer, whereas the Blu Ray display can be turned off fully. Again, hit and miss Arcam approach to quality and implementation.

So, if you are attracted to the Arcam in-house sound (in many ways emulated by the warmth of Denon), and you can tolerate Arcam's seeming 'sell it first and fix it later' approach to implementation, then it's a fine amp and a good compromise. But I do yearn for that time of glorious, unadulterated, and no choice in the matter stereo before these pesky av receivers appeared to confuse things!

 

[CnoEvil]

.

That said, it's been a hassle to find the best Arcam option. Arcam are really hit and miss with their quality of software and scrimp on features. I had an AVR600 for a couple of weeks which, despite sounding amazing, to my astonishment I found it doesn't support 24bit/96khz Flac - that's a good chunk of my library sent into exile already! Plus they are now asking £500 for a 3D upgrade.

After some retrialling, I had a change of heart on the AVR400, and since yesterday there is a new one sat on my rack (flanked by an Arcam BDP-100 I got at an ex display knock down price).

I'm glad you are happy, but it can't have been easy to hand back the AVR600. At least the AVR400 has pre-outs, which allows for future improvement if necessary....maybe something from Pathos for example. >)

 

[Anonymous]

Stop it Cno - evil! :twisted:

I will wait patiently until Arcam fully sort out the AVR600. And just before it comes to the end of its production life and gets madly discounted like the ill fated AVR500, I'll go shopping again. And NOT before.

 

[medway]

A dedicated stereo amplifier will outperform most AV receivers many times the price. I was part of the Big Question feature on What Hi Fi last year, where we compared the musical abilities of a stereo amplifier vs AV receivers at different price points.

have just bought lx83 av brilliant!

do you think I could improve musicality by adding a hifi amp?

what was the magazine issue where this question was debated

is it available as a back issue

thanks

 

[Anonymous]

have just bought lx83 av brilliant!

do you think I could improve musicality by adding a hifi amp?

what was the magazine issue where this question was debated

is it available as a back issue

thanks

Well, reading back over the thread you'll find an answer, but not necessarily THE answer for you.

I was pretty well convinced that this was my only option, no matter what AV amp I bought within my price range (1,800) - though I was prepared to stretch to a £3k AVR600 but couldn't get on with its software and features. Definately sorted the stereo issue out though!

I actually tried the LX85 in the shop demo room and found it to be mightily impressive for stereo, but it wasn't right for my Kefs. Some reckon the LX83 gives the Arcam a run for its money in stereo and if you want the HC features is a better all round proposition?

Others here seem more knowledgeable about your stereo amplifier ad on options. I would advise caution though. Get your dealer (if they have an LX83) to set it all up for you so you can listen to it in a controlled way. Better still, get a demo stereo amp from the dealer you bought the LX83 from and try it out at home under a no obligation basis for a long weekend.

I was surprised by the musicality of the Arcam, once I had it at home in my own room. This negated my earlier decision to ad a stereo amp to my older Denon AV 2809. You may just feel the same about your investment in the Pioneer? Let us know how you get on....

 

[KiwiMoto]

Hi,i'm running Marantz SR7005/Marantz MM7025 (2x140w)/B&W PM1 fronts/M1 sats/PV1 sub x 2.
At system switch on,the power amp and receiver are linked and turn on together so all I have to do is select source and I've got a decent two channel set up.
I prefer 'pure direct' mode for serious vinyl listening,but if I'm moving around the house with Internet radio on I like using L/R + subs.This gives it a bit more oomph from the far corners of the house.
I guess the only constraint for purists is using the receiver as the preamp instead of a dedicated one.Haven't got how I could do this figured out yet though.

 

[medway]

have just bought lx83 av brilliant!

do you think I could improve musicality by adding a hifi amp?

what was the magazine issue where this question was debated

is it available as a back issue

thanks

Well, reading back over the thread you'll find an answer, but not necessarily THE answer for you.

I was pretty well convinced that this was my only option, no matter what AV amp I bought within my price range (1,800) - though I was prepared to stretch to a £3k AVR600 but couldn't get on with its software and features. Definately sorted the stereo issue out though!

I actually tried the LX85 in the shop demo room and found it to be mightily impressive for stereo, but it wasn't right for my Kefs. Some reckon the LX83 gives the Arcam a run for its money in stereo and if you want the HC features is a better all round proposition?

Others here seem more knowledgeable about your stereo amplifier ad on options. I would advise caution though. Get your dealer (if they have an LX83) to set it all up for you so you can listen to it in a controlled way. Better still, get a demo stereo amp from the dealer you bought the LX83 from and try it out at home under a no obligation basis for a long weekend.

I was surprised by the musicality of the Arcam, once I had it at home in my own room. This negated my earlier decision to ad a stereo amp to my older Denon AV 2809. You may just feel the same about your investment in the Pioneer? Let us know how you get on....

Got the LX83 online from Amazon marketplace for £999.00 which I think was a bargain?

SO - can't really get hi fi amp to demo . great idea though

What sub should I get running with tannoy rev sigs DCT6s?

 

[Anonymous]

Although not a great visual match, the Velodyne CHT-8Q, currently going for £300 would be my suggestion.

 

[medway]

think i'm getting a rel 218.

good for music!