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Active VS passive – specific questions

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John Duncan

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2008
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relocated said:
this is the spin that your viewpoint places on what I have written.
You're right of course. Sadly, my viewpoint is borne of long experience of being told that all passive speakers are inaccurate, do not control bass, and boom, which is spectacularly, er, inaccurate. However, I apologise for projecting those views on you, should you not hold them.

relocated said:
I believe the OP had asked specifically about active speakers and AVI speakers in particular and as I have some I gave my opinion on what I KNOW to be certain facts on the ADM 9Ts only.
You did not, however, answer the questions he actually asked.

relocated said:
You could have balanced things better by saying that all speakers have strengths and weaknesses
To be fair, I think I've done that on an occasion or two, including pointing out the - not inconsiderable - strengths of the particular speaker you refer to. Its weaknesses, however, would prevent me from buying it and would probably prevent me from recommending them to the OP.

relocated said:
you love your speakers which are...
...in my signature.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
John Duncan said:
ooh.. said:
John Duncan said:
So 'better' then, as opposed to 'much better'.
Ah, yes he did just say "better". And IHO of course :)
Indeed. I hope he ABXed them...
Because if he didn't he might have just imagined they sounded better because these guys told him they should :)

 

BenLaw

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2010
475
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18,895
For those who've expressed an interest in active v passive shootouts, a German mag did just this with ATC 50s: http://www.klingtgut-studio.de/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ATC_SCM50_aktiv-passiv-Stpl-4-2011.pdf

Apologies it's in German, but google translate gives an idea. Interestingly, passives are said to be marginally better, but the power amps used are Ayre MX-Rs. At c £13k these cost more on their own than the 50A! If nothing else, this is a good support for the active as VFM argument.

It would be interesting to hear some WHF reviewers views on this, because as I understand it the reference speaker is ATC 50, convertable between active and passive. So I assume reviewers will have heard it using its own amplification through high end pre-amps and using high end power amps. Given that the 100A got 5 stars last year, it would be interesting to know if the reviewers feel they've used a power amp that matches or exceeds the active amplification.
 

John Duncan

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2008
2,027
13
19,695
ooh.. said:
John Duncan said:
ooh.. said:
John Duncan said:
So 'better' then, as opposed to 'much better'.
Ah, yes he did just say "better". And IHO of course :)
Indeed. I hope he ABXed them...
Because if he didn't he might have just imagined they sounded better because these guys told him they should :)
There are those who say there's no need to blind test because the differences are obvious.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
John Duncan said:
ooh.. said:
John Duncan said:
ooh.. said:
John Duncan said:
So 'better' then, as opposed to 'much better'.
Ah, yes he did just say "better". And IHO of course :)
Indeed. I hope he ABXed them...
Because if he didn't he might have just imagined they sounded better because these guys told him they should :)
There are those who say there's no need to blind test because the differences are obvious.
And there are those who say there's no need to do blind tests because there can be no differences.

Their views are often backed up by the guys in the white coats :p
 

John Duncan

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2008
2,027
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ooh.. said:
And there are those who say there's no need to do blind tests because there can be no differences.

Their views are often backed up by the guys in the white coats :p
You misunderstand me; he was talking about active speakers if I recall.
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
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John Duncan said:
CnoEvil said:
*Sigh* (very deep) ...and how does all this help the OP exactly?... :wall:
Oh the OP's long gone, Cno, he's decided to keep what he's got...
Never let it be said that a reasonable question should ever get in the way of a pointless argument......otherwise it's a wasted opportunity! :roll:
 

John Duncan

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2008
2,027
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CnoEvil said:
John Duncan said:
CnoEvil said:
*Sigh* (very deep) ...and how does all this help the OP exactly?... :wall:
Oh the OP's long gone, Cno, he's decided to keep what he's got...
Never let it be said that a reasonable question should ever get in the way of a pointless argument......otherwise it's a wasted opportunity! :roll:
Exactly, where would be the forum traffic in that?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
John Duncan said:
ooh.. said:
And there are those who say there's no need to do blind tests because there can be no differences.

Their views are often backed up by the guys in the white coats :p
You misunderstand me; he was talking about active speakers if I recall.
Oh, yes he was, i'm going off track here, aren't I :silenced:

 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
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steve_1979 said:
I've heard some active and passive Dynaudios speakers side by side and the active ones sounded a little bit better in both cases.
Not the huge difference that many claim then? Because of the warmer, bassier sound of the Dynaudio's models, I'd have expected a bigger difference.
 

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
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The biggest difference was the bass which was noticeably more boomy and less well defined on the passives.

Apart from that the difference between them was subtle. The actives were a fraction clearer but I certainly wouldn't descrbe it as a 'huge difference'.
 

Overdose

New member
Feb 8, 2008
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For possible comparisons, try Dynaudio Focus 110 and 110A?

Edit: In fact don't bother, this is getting tedious. The OP has long ago declared that he is in no imediate danger of getting upgraditis, so move along folks, nothing to see here. :hand:
 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
567
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steve_1979 said:
The biggest difference was the bass which was noticeably more boomy and less well defined on the passives.

Apart from that the difference between them was subtle. The actives were a fraction clearer but I certainly wouldn't descrbe it as a 'huge difference'.
I tend to find Dynaudios a little too full in the bottom end anyway (hence why they went well with earlier Cyrus), so I wouldn't say that their sound is fully representative of the best passives. Many other passives are tighter and more defined.
 

relocated

New member
Jan 20, 2012
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FrankHarveyHiFi said:
steve_1979 said:
The biggest difference was the bass which was noticeably more boomy and less well defined on the passives.

Apart from that the difference between them was subtle. The actives were a fraction clearer but I certainly wouldn't descrbe it as a 'huge difference'.
I tend to find Dynaudios a little too full in the bottom end anyway (hence why they went well with earlier Cyrus), so I wouldn't say that their sound is fully representative of the best passives. Many other passives are tighter and more defined.
And available to buy at Frank Harvey HiFi??????????????????????????[and other retailers too, just for balance].
 

relocated

New member
Jan 20, 2012
74
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0
John Duncan said:
relocated said:
this is the spin that your viewpoint places on what I have written.
You're right of course. Sadly, my viewpoint is borne of long experience of being told that all passive speakers are inaccurate, do not control bass, and boom, which is spectacularly, er, inaccurate. However, I apologise for projecting those views on you, should you not hold them.

relocated said:
I believe the OP had asked specifically about active speakers and AVI speakers in particular and as I have some I gave my opinion on what I KNOW to be certain facts on the ADM 9Ts only.
You did not, however, answer the questions he actually asked.

relocated said:
You could have balanced things better by saying that all speakers have strengths and weaknesses
To be fair, I think I've done that on an occasion or two, including pointing out the - not inconsiderable - strengths of the particular speaker you refer to. Its weaknesses, however, would prevent me from buying it and would probably prevent me from recommending them to the OP.

relocated said:
you love your speakers which are...
...in my signature.
John,

I am happy to accept your apology, thank you.

I answered the questions I was able, honestly, to do[please read his first question and then see if my reply does not answer that] I can't tell him about things I don't know because I don't have his listening experience.

You can modify the sound of the 9Ts with different sources but I don't KNOW if it will suit him. Similarly I don't know about his 3rd question and neither I suspect does anyone else because he is not specific about the valve/hybrid combination.

The fact that you have been more balanced on previous occasions helps the OP out on THIS occasion how exactly? If you had said to the OP what you have said in your "to be fair" paragraph to me; then you would have been far more useful and balanced than you were.

The, "which are..............." wasn't aimed specifically at you. I also think that it is awfully nice that your speaker manufacturer is warrantying your amplification and DAC for you, which of course is what AVI are doing for me!!

Overall I think that you should remember that you hold a position, real or imagined by us, of power because you are a moderator on this forum.

That in, my opinion, requires you to be as balanced as possible to ensure that you do not stiffle open and honest debate.

Despite your apology to me I notice that you have straight away posted other, seemingly paranoid responses on this thread.

It is MOST DISCONCERTING.
 

John Duncan

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2008
2,027
13
19,695
relocated said:
The fact that you have been more balanced on previous occasions helps the OP out on THIS occasion how exactly? If you had said to the OP what you have said in your "to be fair" paragraph to me; then you would have been far more useful and balanced than you were.
I said it at the bottom of the first page:

John Duncan said:
Good call. I've only heard one active pair but, whilst they were very good, they weren't the hifi equivalent of the second coming of Christ(©). I've heard plenty of passive systems (at all sorts of prices) that are better, and plenty (at all sorts of prices, including, this week, a £19k one) which were 'meh'. Listen and decide for yourself.
relocated said:
Overall I think that you should remember that you hold a position, real or imagined by us, of power because you are a moderator on this forum.

That in, my opinion, requires you to be as balanced as possible to ensure that you do not stiffle open and honest debate.
I'm flattered that you think I have a position of power. Perhaps I should ask to be paid for it. I shall take your advice under consideration and hope sincerel that will share it with all forum moderators you come into contact with. I'd also ask for contributions from anybody who can show examples of where debate has been stifled on this site recently...

relocated said:
seemingly paranoid
This is the spin that your viewpoint places on what I have written.
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
1,232
4
19,195
Can there be an 'active speakers' forum or sub-forum? (Or maybe 'fight club' where digital cable threads can reside as well.)

The more vociferous active (ok, mostly AVI) loudspeaker/monitor spokespeople can then have their own corner and everyone will know where to find the action if they want to watch or take part.
 

moon

New member
Nov 10, 2011
47
0
0
chebby said:
Can there be an 'active speakers' forum or sub-forum? (Or maybe 'fight club' where digital cable threads can reside as well.)

The more vociferous active (ok, mostly AVI) loudspeaker/monitor spokespeople can then have their own corner and everyone will know where to find the action if they want to watch or take part.
agreed,but the first rule is?
 

relocated

New member
Jan 20, 2012
74
0
0
That may or not be a good idea. But if you hive off actives then how will people, indoctrinated in the behemoth of passives, find out about the true path to enlightenment. AND NO you do not have to take the last few words literally[just for the more explosive of you].
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Yesterday a friend and i were driving to the beach when i spotted a pretty lady, i said look at the bum on that she looked great from behind to which he replied: My ex girlfriend looks much better from behind. I said in your opinion! He said no, she looks better.

Whatever, i said, as i drove along, thinking how can he not know that better is subjective? And wondering how i could setup an ABX test :)
 

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