A first audition

[cisamcgu]

Hi all,

After some thinking and a lot of reading, I ventured to my local HiFi shop (PA Audio, Crosby, Merseyside) and settled down to listen to the new Marantz amp/cd with a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze BX2 speakers. I took my Denon M30 mini system with me as a comparison system - which proved to be very useful indeed.

I had a selection of music CDs from "Gary Moore" to "Gershwin" by way of "They Might be Giants" and "Jennifer Warnes".

I settled down after chatting with Alan, the HiFi demo chap, and listened first to Jennifer Warnes on Famous Blue Raincoat - a recording which I think is just superb. There was an immediate and noticeable increase in quality over my Denon playing into some very old Dentons at home everything was brighter, sharper, clearer through the Marantz/MA partnership. After a few tracks of this, I then attached the speakers to my Denon for a comparison; the results demostrated a noticeable deteriation in quality, confirming my earlier suspicions. It was as if the music was "muffled" - only a tiny bit, but definately there - when played through the old mini system.

I went on, back with the Marantz/MA combo, playing through a selection of the tracks I had brought with me - all of which, to my ears, sounded better.

Then, with assistance from Alan, I connected the optical output of the Denon (for the fist time ever since I bought it many years ago) to the optical input of the Marantz amp, thereby by-passsing the amp/DAC in the CD player and going directly to the DAC in the Marantz amp (this is my understanding anyway). This was very interesting and to be honest, I could detect no noticeable difference between the music on the Denon via the Marantz and on the Maranatz CD - it seemed to me that the Marantz CD gave no discerable benefit over using the Denon as a purely CD player. - But remember, this is my first audition, my ears are not "educated" - all I am doing is reporting what I "felt".

My time was nearly up now, so Alan swapped out the BX2 and replacecd them with some MA silver 1 (at least I think he said that was what they were) and I listened again to Famous Blue Raincoat - this was a revelation - it was noticeably better, brighter, clearer - more "there" - it felt/sounded like the music was hanging in the air about 8 feet in front of me - I was enthralled...but, sadly, my time was up and I thanked them profusely and wander out into the rain with a smile on my face, and plans .. lots of plans .. 🙂

I cannot thank the staff at PA audio enough - they were patient and helpful - always willing to listen to my opinions, sometimes agree with me, at other times counted them with arguments of there own, but always unfailing polite, pleasant and friendly - my only complaint was that I didn't have enough time for Alan to hook up a Cyrus amp/cd combo he had upstairs - he assured me I would be bowled over by the music - maybe next time.

Thanks everyone

Andrew

 

[DocG]

Yep, you caught the bug!

Enjoy! :cheers:

 

[Covenanter]

Good choice of a test recording. I'm not a fan of the MA speakers so would advise you to try some others.

Chris

 

[noob]

I'm beginner myself, so i find your post very intriguing.

I have few questions, if you would be so kind 🙂

Do you remeber which models of Marantz you were using ?

What does "..music was muffled-only a tiny bit" mean? How much is "tiny bit" ? 🙂

Because if "tiny" really means tiny, and considering that both DACs basically sounded the same, would you agree that components didn't make much of the difference - mostly (only?) speakers did?

Thank you for your answers.

 

[cisamcgu]

Hi,

The amp and cd were Marantz 6005 (PM6005 and CD6005 I think) - the newest ones anyway.

What I meant with "muffled, but only a tiny bit" was that when listening to the Denon mini system through the MA Bronze speakers the sound, compared to the same CD played through the Marantz was "woolly". It wasn't a big thing, not startling by any means, and doesn't mean that I want to throw away the Denon tomorrow, it was just that the Marantz seemed to have better definition, more clarity - if you imagine driving your car with a less than spotless windscreen; everything is OK, you can see perfectly clearly, but as soon as you use the screenwash and wipers everything becomes brighter, cleaner, clearer - well, the Marantz was like that compared to the Denon mini system (which of course is 10+ years old).

I would say that, to my ears, the was little or no difference between using the Denon CD transport plugged into the optical socket of the Marantz (i.e using the amplifiers DAC) and using the Marantz CD plugged into the Marantz amp (hope that is clear).

It is difficult to say what made the largest difference, if I had to catagorise it I would say this.

Let me assign some "imaginary numbers" and try and show the changes

Denon + old wharfdales (home system) - baseline of 100

Denon + MA Bronze :120

Marantz CD + Marantz amp + MA Bronze :170

Denon CD + Marantz amp + MA Bronze : 170

Marantz CD + Marantz amp + MA Silver : 250

So, in hindsight, I would say, the amp made a significant difference, but the Silver speakers made the biggest - maybe 🙂

Hope this random wafflke helps

Thanks

Andrew

 

[noob]

I find your number scoring system for evaluating quality differences between systems excellent, more people here should use it 🙂

Much more useful than cryptic "laidback, edgy, fatiguing" and similar adjectives normally used .

Two thumbs up! 🙂

 

[cisamcgu]

The numbers don't mean much really, they are just an indication of improvements, or not, in the perceived sound quality - but I am glad you found them helpful. I also have difficulty understanding "fatiguing", "clinical", "warm", etc.. but maybe that will come with time and experience.

Kind regards

Andrew

 

[davedotco]

The numbers don't mean much really, they are just an indication of improvements, or not, in the perceived sound quality - but I am glad you found them helpful. I also have difficulty understanding "fatiguing", "clinical", "warm", etc.. but maybe that will come with time and experience.

Kind regards

Andrew

Out of interest, could you explain a bit about what your expectations were when to went to the dealer?

What, if anything did you know about the equipment you tried and when you said you were fairly unimpressed with what you heard, why was that? Had you heard better or did it simply not come up to expectations?

Sorry, I understand that these are not easy questions to answer but the reaction of new listeners to hi-fi reproduction is something I am genuinely interested in, if you have a few minutes to expand on what you said it would be much appreciated.

 

[cisamcgu]

Dave,

I went to the dealer with rather unknown expectations. I have never knowlingly listened to any high-end hifi never mind the budget Marantz system I was going to audition, so I had no real idea what, if any, difference I would be able to detect between my Denon M30 mini system and the Marantz. I hoped it would be a relevation, like the difference between black and white TV and the advent of colour (showing my age now 😛 ) but I suspected it would be much more subtle, like the difference between normal TV and HD.

I knew very little about the equipement other than the Marantz and MA Bronze were both well thought of here and on other review sites, so I presumed that they would be a sensible starting point. - they are in the area of my budget too - which is always good.

As I said, I have not knowingly heard any other hifi, at least not any that I have paid attention to, so I was coming to this with an open, if expectant, mind. I wasn't really disappointed with the demo, and in fact I was very impressed when the more expensive (Silver) speakers were attached to the amplifier, but I thought that the Marantz CD player was mostly superflous and was matched, at least as far as I could tell, by the CD player in my Denon. - Howerver, all of this must be taken with the proviso that I am completely new to this, and may be missing some obvious deficiences or advantages that the rest of you would pick up immediately. As I said earlier, I have great difficulty grasping what is meant when equipment is described as "musical" or "having a fine grasp of timing" - it sounds very cague to me, and almost made up - so I am obviously not really understanding a lot of what I am hearing.

I hope this helps and please don't hesitate to ask anything else.

 

[Glacialpath]

I also have difficulty understanding "fatiguing", "clinical", "warm", etc.. but maybe that will come with time and experience.

Kind regards

Andrew

Hey there to you guys new to High end HiFi.

cisamcgu that was really nice to hear you had a great experience with the shop and speakers. You say your ears are not traind but to me, if your eyes open wider and you physically go "OOH!" when you hear your favourit music that you now well through a new system then you are getting the same jolt as us who have heard many systems and configurations. It's great feeling. And yes I second the guy who says "Yep you got the bug"

My interpretation of the "Explination words" would be:

Fatigue = when you have music up loud and you find you want to turn it down because it's grating against you and it sounds harsh to listen to. On better systems you should be able to have music much louder and not have it bother your ears.

Clincal = To me this would mean the music doesn't sound natural mostly when listening to music you know has been recorded by live musicians.

Warm = To me means it sounds round, quite bass heavy but not unnaturally. If you take all the low end out of a system it can't sound warm it would just sound tinny and thin.

Transparency = To me means can you see the musicians an a large room playing the music for you with the space between the instrument or do they all seem on top of each other. Is there more room in the sound stage.

Sound Stage (I'm sure you guys already understand this) = To me it's just that, a big stage with the instruments spread across it an you are at the front not hearing the PA but the sound directly from the stage. There is plenty of definition as to where each musicain is as you close your eyes and listen. This is much the same a transparency but you wouldn't have much of a sound stage if your speakers were right next to each other but about 2 meteres apart would give you a better sound stage. Better still if they are a couple of feet away from the walls back and sides.

Just thought I would throw that in there. Your nuber score is still w very good way of describing the amount of difference ear component combination created and in time you will use your own words to describe how things sound.

I hope I have helped.

The Cable Madman (Glacialpath) :rockout:

 

[davedotco]

Dave,

I went to the dealer with rather unknown expectations. I have never knowlingly listened to any high-end hifi never mind the budget Marantz system I was going to audition, so I had no real idea what, if any, difference I would be able to detect between my Denon M30 mini system and the Marantz. I hoped it would be a relevation, like the difference between black and white TV and the advent of colour (showing my age now 😛 ) but I suspected it would be much more subtle, like the difference between normal TV and HD.

I knew very little about the equipement other than the Marantz and MA Bronze were both well thought of here and on other review sites, so I presumed that they would be a sensible starting point. - they are in the area of my budget too - which is always good.

As I said, I have not knowingly heard any other hifi, at least not any that I have paid attention to, so I was coming to this with an open, if expectant, mind. I wasn't really disappointed with the demo, and in fact I was very impressed when the more expensive (Silver) speakers were attached to the amplifier, but I thought that the Marantz CD player was mostly superflous and was matched, at least as far as I could tell, by the CD player in my Denon. - Howerver, all of this must be taken with the proviso that I am completely new to this, and may be missing some obvious deficiences or advantages that the rest of you would pick up immediately. As I said earlier, I have great difficulty grasping what is meant when equipment is described as "musical" or "having a fine grasp of timing" - it sounds very cague to me, and almost made up - so I am obviously not really understanding a lot of what I am hearing.

I hope this helps and please don't hesitate to ask anything else.

Thanks, this is interesting.

In my view you are actually in a better position comming to this fresh and without expectation. If your dealer will play ball, get him to set up your system as a reference and get him to play you a few options. Try and see what it is that makes the differences to you, you might find something you like, particularly if you spend a little more money.

Given the flexibility of the Denon you can change your system piece by piece, unusual for an all in one.

 

[VinylRush]

Sound like you had a nice time.

Alan is a top bloke and knows his stuff. Bought some Rega gear from there a couple of years ago.