2 channel demoted again?

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Anonymous

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What Hi-fi occupies the market position it occupies. If you want to read magazines which are predominantly about hi-fi audio then there are three or four available from W.H. Smiths, e.g. Hi-Fi World. Naturally I wouldn't suggest you read these *instead* of What Hi-fi...
 
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Anonymous

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I cancelled my subscription to WHF because I got tired of the amount of home cinema reviews when its hifi I'm interested in. I bought the awards issues of Hi-Fi Choice and Hi-Fi+ yesterday. I also bought the Hi-Fi Choice The Collection which was excellent for the amount of turntable reviews. It also feature really interesting interviews with some of the founders of some big name manufacturers.

I tried to buy the WHF Awards issue but neither WH Smith or any of my local supermarkets had it.
 

Messiah

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I would like to add that I think What HiFI does an excellent job. From my point of view at least the mag covers a lot of areas I am interested in and importantly can afford!! I find that other mags tend to mostly review items that you need to be a doctor to afford. Sure What HiFi review at lot of other items but other publications are hardly full to the brim with test upon test themselves!

The members of the team are always on here giving advice and are down to earth! Whereas I find those in other mags come across very snobbish about the subject.

For those that don't like the mag - don't buy it. Simple. I really cannot understand why someone says 'I wish What HiFi was more like Magazine X. Just buy Magazine X instead. Simple.

Anyway, that's my 2 pence worth. Hope it entertained!
 

professorhat

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Joel - you're living in the past man! Take off your rose coloured spectacles, hitch up your socks and embrace the new world and all the changes it brings!
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Andrew Everard

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Breeder:I cancelled my subscription to WHF because I got tired of the amount of home cinema reviews when its hifi I'm interested in. I bought the awards issues of Hi-Fi Choice and Hi-Fi+ yesterday. I also bought the Hi-Fi Choice The Collection which was excellent for the amount of turntable reviews. It also feature really interesting interviews with some of the founders of some big name manufacturers.

And I'm sure both will be happy with your plugging of them here...
 

drummerman

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JoelSim:
It used to be called What HiFi and was a far better magazine.

You're having a bad day buddy. Don't ponder on it or say anything you might later regret. No one publication gets everything right all the time yet I have respect for all of them most of the time. I don't subscribe for exactly that reason. I'll pick the ones I like up in the shop and if they are of interest I buy them.
 

Andrew Everard

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drummerman:I also think its full moon. Should have some interesting discussions later ...
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It was four days ago - now it's waning. Rather like this thread...
 

JoelSim

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professorhat:Joel - you're living in the past man! Take off your rose coloured spectacles, hitch up your socks and embrace the new world and all the changes it brings!

I have a 42" plasma and dvd player, and it's wired through my 2 channel amps and sounds great. Still not interested in reading about tvs though as I have one.

I have to agree that this forum is excellent.

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matthewpiano

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Simple market forces HAVE to come into play. 2 channel hi-fi has enjoyed a renaissance of late with some excellent products being launched. However, it is still very much a specialist and marginal part of the industry, and the market has moved very much towards integrated music and movie systems for the majority of buyers who are looking for neat, convenient solutions that still provide high levels of performance.

My own main interest is in 2 channel hi-fi because my interest in technology has come from my love of a wide range of music. However, I have actually just cancelled my subscription to HFC because I'm fed up of it being dominated by expensive product that I can't afford. For me (and the majority of music lovers in normal jobs), spending £500-£750 per box is the top end and WHFS&V caters for this very well with its coverage of brands like Cyrus, Marantz, Cambridge Audio, Roksan etc. WHFS&V is the ONLY magazine that maintains a focus on equipment that the majority of its readership can actually afford (or, indeed, justify).

As somebody who works in the industry I feel TVs, home cinema, digital music solutions and associated products are now at the centre of what the man in the street is interested in when it comes to home technology. The fact that WHFS&V manages to cater superbly for this mainstream market in such a thorough way AND feature the most important products and developments in 2 channel audio is testament to the skill with which the magazine has been managed and developed through the years. In the same way that our focus changes as a retailer to suit the needs of our customers, a magazine has to do the same to survive as a commercial entity.

I think the November issue was superb and that the Awards issue strikes an excellent balance. It has certainly got me wanting to hear the new Cyrus CD players and Roksan amps to find out whether they are really significantly better than my Cambridge Audio stuff and those ATC speakers are quickly pulling me back towards the idea of investigating standmounted speakers.

Keep up the good work WHF. You will be receiving my subscription request imminently.
 

Ajani

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matthewpiano:Simple market forces HAVE to come into play. 2 channel hi-fi has enjoyed a renaissance of late with some excellent products being launched. However, it is still very much a specialist and marginal part of the industry, and the market has moved very much towards integrated music and movie systems for the majority of buyers who are looking for neat, convenient solutions that still provide high levels of performance.

My own main interest is in 2 channel hi-fi because my interest in technology has come from my love of a wide range of music. However, I have actually just cancelled my subscription to HFC because I'm fed up of it being dominated by expensive product that I can't afford. For me (and the majority of music lovers in normal jobs), spending £500-£750 per box is the top end and WHFS&V caters for this very well with its coverage of brands like Cyrus, Marantz, Cambridge Audio, Roksan etc. WHFS&V is the ONLY magazine that maintains a focus on equipment that the majority of its readership can actually afford (or, indeed, justify).

As somebody who works in the industry I feel TVs, home cinema, digital music solutions and associated products are now at the centre of what the man in the street is interested in when it comes to home technology. The fact that WHFS&V manages to cater superbly for this mainstream market in such a thorough way AND feature the most important products and developments in 2 channel audio is testament to the skill with which the magazine has been managed and developed through the years. In the same way that our focus changes as a retailer to suit the needs of our customers, a magazine has to do the same to survive as a commercial entity.

I think the November issue was superb and that the Awards issue strikes an excellent balance. It has certainly got me wanting to hear the new Cyrus CD players and Roksan amps to find out whether they are really significantly better than my Cambridge Audio stuff and those ATC speakers are quickly pulling me back towards the idea of investigating standmounted speakers.

Keep up the good work WHF. You will be receiving my subscription request imminently.

Well said... two of the things I love about WHF:

1) There are actually enough reviews of affordable gear to be useful in purchasing decisions 2) The interactions with the Editors/Writers on this forum is incredible... I've actually seen the WHF Team review products that forum members have been raving about/requested reviews for... Most other mags seem to just review whatever ultra-expensive gear they like and have little interaction with forum members...

Now if only WHF would start producing DIGITAL EDITIONS, then I'd be able to give them my money (It's really sad that I have digital subscriptions to other HiFi mags that I don't like nearly as much)....
 

JoelSim

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I understand the market forces argument but that still doesn't make up for the fact that I've just read the awards issue cover to cover in an hour and 15 mins. I used to spend at least double that, if not 4 or 5 hours reading about hifi. Surely there are 2 sides to the coin here, one about ABC figures/ad revenue and the other about providing substance true to your roots and supporting everything that's unique about the hifi industry in the face of a marketplace that's getting more like our high streets, carbon copies of towns, where only the big guns survive. I hope I'm wrong, but if in 10 years' time all we have are Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Pioneer, Yamaha, Apple et al and the Naims, Arcams, Quads, Rotels, PMCs, ProAcs of this world just can't compete any more, then we've all failed.

I'm not being difficult for the sake of it, I just have a passion for small specialists especially in this industry that takes up a good proportion of my leisure time; it's not about being a dinosaur.

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Alec

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JoelSim:I understand the market forces argument but that still doesn't make up for the fact that I've just read the awards issue cover to cover in an hour and 15 mins.

Good point. There isnt that much to actually read

JoelSim:but if in 10 years' time all we have are Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Pioneer, Yamaha, Apple et al and the Naims, Arcams, Quads, Rotels, PMCs, ProAcs of this world just can't compete any more, then we've all failed

True.
 

Ajani

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JoelSim:
I understand the market forces argument but that still doesn't make up for the fact that I've just read the awards issue cover to cover in an hour and 15 mins. I used to spend at least double that, if not 4 or 5 hours reading about hifi. Surely there are 2 sides to the coin here, one about ABC figures/ad revenue and the other about providing substance true to your roots and supporting everything that's unique about the hifi industry in the face of a marketplace that's getting more like our high streets, carbon copies of towns, where only the big guns survive. I hope I'm wrong, but if in 10 years' time all we have are Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Pioneer, Yamaha, Apple et al and the Naims, Arcams, Quads, Rotels, PMCs, ProAcs of this world just can't compete any more, then we've all failed.

I'm not being difficult for the sake of it, I just have a passion for small specialists especially in this industry that takes up a good proportion of my leisure time; it's not about being a dinosaur.

The problem with WHF returning to HiFi only, is that it is more likely to kill the HiFi specialist brands that you mentioned... The reason WHF has such impressive sales is because they include TV, portable and HT gear... if they ditch that, then they will suffer the same low sales as the other HIFi only mags... WHF is at least introducing new people to HiFi... those other HiFi only mags only cater to a dying market and fail to spread HiFi to the uninitiated. What you want WHF to do will actually kill our hobby even faster...
 
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Anonymous

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hi joel. Please bear with me if this point has already been made.

I agree with you totally up to a point.

My interest in Sound and Vision, was initial all about cinema surround and display size and clarity, which is what haymarket seems to focus on. But they also cover every other aspect of sound reproduction which is what sparked my interest in hfi.

Now i'd trade every othr part of my set up just for that mecca of a hi fi system.

So even though the magazine doesn't focus on the aspects and articles we'd all like, it has proved to be a gateway for me, and i'm sure many of us.
 

matthewpiano

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Joel, I agree completely with your passion for the smaller specialists. They make the best hi-fi and it would be a tragedy to see some of those brands disappear. I do think however that the current format of the magazine has probably introduced more buyers to brands like Cyrus, Cambridge Audio, Rega, Naim, Roksan, Arcam et al than the other hi-fi publications put together. It is really the hi-fi industry's biggest audience to advertise to. The other magazines have some very good qualities but they are not really going to bring new customers to the specialist hi-fi table because most users will start with a budget system such as NAD C315/C515 or CA 340A/C with Tannoy F1s. Only on buying and enjoying this off the back of a review will most new hi-fi fans get bitten by the bug and start to look at upgrades to more expensive units. Likewise, I wonder how many WHFS&V readers have started off with an Onkyo CS515 or Denon DM30/31 to then go on and invest in either seperates or an upgraded one-box like the Solo or Classik.

The majors really don't pose a huge threat to the specialist industry. Their focus is elsewhere. The biggest threat to specialist hi-fi is the closed-club atmosphere of some high end obsessed magazines and some hi-fi retailers. Snobbery and too much emphasis on 4 figure components that are out of reach for the majority of music lovers is the biggest corrosive element.
 
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Anonymous

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hi i would like to add to my earlier post , well ive been in thought about 2 channel stereo and the 5.1 channel, ive been into hifi from the 70s, i think what hifi sound and vision is doing a great job of bringing both sides 2channel and 5.1 channel together ,time moves on and you have to do the same and not get stuck in 2 channel only mode, as surround sound is the way things are going to go, a lot of the protests about 5.1 comes from poeple who have spent thousands on there hifi 2 channel, and think it brings a bit of exclustivity to them and think tv blu ray and 5.1 should not exist, i have both 2 channel and 5.1 system and i like both and only drawback is deciding what is better,as either one is as good as the other ,so what hifi is for the hifi 2channel fraternity and 5.1 blu ray gang ,or like me both sides of the coin.
 

Ajani

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dvdaudio:hi i would like to add to my earlier post , well ive been in thought about 2 channel stereo and the 5.1 channel, ive been into hifi from the 70s, i think what hifi sound and vision is doing a great job of bringing both sides 2channel and 5.1 channel together ,time moves on and you have to do the same and not get stuck in 2 channel only mode, as surround sound is the way things are going to go, a lot of the protests about 5.1 comes from poeple who have spent thousands on there hifi 2 channel, and think it brings a bit of exclustivity to them and think tv blu ray and 5.1 should not exist, i have both 2 channel and 5.1 system and i like both and only drawback is deciding what is better,as either one is as good as the other ,so what hifi is for the hifi 2channel fraternity and 5.1 blu ray gang ,or like me both sides of the coin.

Interestingly enough, I'm a 2 channel only fan (now)... I've read almost every Hi-Fi review on this site but can probably count on one finger the number of TV/HT reviews I've read... So I do understand why members like Joel would prefer to see more Hi-Fi in the mag, but I also see that the real benefit of having TV/HT in the mag is that it attracts new readers... many of us younger Hi-Fi fans, started out with interests in minisytems/Ipod docks/HT and graduated to more Traditional Hi-Fi by crossover mags/websites like WHF...
 

Andy Clough

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JoelSim:
I hope I'm wrong, but if in 10 years' time all we have are Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Pioneer, Yamaha, Apple et al and the Naims, Arcams, Quads, Rotels, PMCs, ProAcs of this world just can't compete any more, then we've all failed.

I'm not being difficult for the sake of it, I just have a passion for small specialists especially in this industry that takes up a good proportion of my leisure time; it's not about being a dinosaur.

So, if you've read the Awards issue cover to cover Joel, you'll know that we gave three - yes that's three - CD player Awards to Cyrus (plus one to Marantz), speaker Awards to Dali, Tannoy, B&W, ATC, Dynaudio and Monitor Audio, stereo amp Awards to Marantz, Roksan (x2), Cyrus and Plinius and turntable Awards to Pro-ject, Thorens and Rega. Oh, and cable Awards to Chord, Atlas, Clearer Audio, True Colours Industries and Van den Hul.

If that isn't supporting "small specialists in the industry" (well, I'll admit B&W aren't exactly small!) then I don't know what is.
 

JoelSim

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Andy Clough:JoelSim:
I hope I'm wrong, but if in 10 years' time all we have are Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Pioneer, Yamaha, Apple et al and the Naims, Arcams, Quads, Rotels, PMCs, ProAcs of this world just can't compete any more, then we've all failed.

I'm not being difficult for the sake of it, I just have a passion for small specialists especially in this industry that takes up a good proportion of my leisure time; it's not about being a dinosaur.

So, if you've read the Awards issue cover to cover Joel, you'll know that we gave three - yes that's three - CD player Awards to Cyrus (plus one to Marantz), speaker Awards to Dali, Tannoy, B&W, ATC, Dynaudio and Monitor Audio, stereo amp Awards to Marantz, Roksan (x2), Cyrus and Plinius and turntable Awards to Pro-ject, Thorens and Rega. Oh, and cable Awards to Chord, Atlas, Clearer Audio, True Colours Industries and Van den Hul.

If that isn't supporting "small specialists in the industry" (well, I'll admit B&W aren't exactly small!) then I don't know what is.

I think many of you are missing the point as 2 channel is being diluted with all the large corporate TV manufacturers coming in. And don't forget this mag is their bread and butter and I suspect that some are already struggling with the advertising rates now that the mag has a higher circulation, many of whom aren't interested in 2 channel. I know you still do the stereo part but increasingly this is playing second fiddle to the 'more lucrative' TV category. The magazine isn't currently What HiFi sound and vision, it's What Vision, Sound and HiFi.

I'm not having a go at you guys, I'm just asking you all to put more emphasis on the little guys as they provide a wonderful, but relatively niche product.

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