Your thoughs and suggestions about my current system (Monitor Audio Gold 100 4G & Denon X4500H)

[Chris S.]

Hello Everyone



I am new to this forum and this is my first post.



I would like to share my system and would love to get your thought about it. The main reason is, that I have no comparison at all and hence no idea on what I could expect if I make a change in the system.



I have a pair of MA Gold 100 4G paired with a Denon X4500H. I quite like my system, TV and BD sound great (my wife doesn’t really have a clue what she uses all day, but asked me what’s wrong with the sound of the TV in our hotel room 😉)

What I’m not a 100% convinced of is the sound when playing Spotify. If I sit right in the triangle on the Couche, then the sound is close to great (in my opinion, and I have no comparison at all). If I’m off from the ideal position (like 90° off at the dining table, looking towards the couch and the speakers slightly to the right), the sound is ok but it sounds “very located” in the area of the speakers. I know it’s not the ideal seating position and maybe I have a wrong idea of “room filling sound”.



I wonder if anybody has experienced this setup and can rank it somehow to other combinations (MA’s & other AVR’s / Amp’s).



Another question I have is, what would the difference in sound be compared to a dedicated streamer / amp setup (e.g., Cambridge audio azur 851N & azur 851W)?

And, as I would like to keep the benefits of an AVR, would it be possible to use the Denon as a pre-amp connected to the Amp? (my idea would be to first buy an amp, and at a later stage, the streamer – however, I’m not sure if I can connect more than one source to the 851W…).

Please be invited to share your experience with any of the mentioned hifi components, I’d be glad to read any opinions and hints 😊

 

[Deleted member 116933]

Hi Chris very warm welcome.

I think you have the wrong idea of room filling and have unrealistic expectation of the system.

You can’t expect to have same experience with off axis listen as you would sitting in The sweet spot on your couch.

No amount of system swapping will change this. However if your system is up one end of the room then a little shimmy around of the speakers will create a more even sound across the room. So that it can be enjoyed in more places around the room.


Maybe a picture of your current setup and layout and perhaps we could help you lay the speakers a little better

In regards to the amp and streamer question , what are the benefits you speak of that your AVR has? What is that you like about it?

 

[plastic penguin]

Hello Everyone



I am new to this forum and this is my first post.



I would like to share my system and would love to get your thought about it. The main reason is, that I have no comparison at all and hence no idea on what I could expect if I make a change in the system.



I have a pair of MA Gold 100 4G paired with a Denon X4500H. I quite like my system, TV and BD sound great (my wife doesn’t really have a clue what she uses all day, but asked me what’s wrong with the sound of the TV in our hotel room 😉)

What I’m not a 100% convinced of is the sound when playing Spotify. If I sit right in the triangle on the Couche, then the sound is close to great (in my opinion, and I have no comparison at all). If I’m off from the ideal position (like 90° off at the dining table, looking towards the couch and the speakers slightly to the right), the sound is ok but it sounds “very located” in the area of the speakers. I know it’s not the ideal seating position and maybe I have a wrong idea of “room filling sound”.



I wonder if anybody has experienced this setup and can rank it somehow to other combinations (MA’s & other AVR’s / Amp’s).



Another question I have is, what would the difference in sound be compared to a dedicated streamer / amp setup (e.g., Cambridge audio azur 851N & azur 851W)?

And, as I would like to keep the benefits of an AVR, would it be possible to use the Denon as a pre-amp connected to the Amp? (my idea would be to first buy an amp, and at a later stage, the streamer – however, I’m not sure if I can connect more than one source to the 851W…).

Please be invited to share your experience with any of the mentioned hifi components, I’d be glad to read any opinions and hints 😊

Agree with @millennia_one that sound is effected by where you sit or stand. Every system will have its sweet spot. Off-axis (either side) and it won't sound as good.

Oddly if I go into the kitchen it will sound big and bassy, presumably because the living room is acting like a big speaker cabinet.

By the way, do you use the receiver for multi-channel stuff also?

 

[Chris S.]

Thank you for your quick replies!

I’m aware that I can’t expect the same experience in being sitting in an odd position. I was mainly surprised by how huge the difference actually is.

The question regarding the system swapping was not to overcome the different listening experiences in different places of the room but rather to find out if there is un-heard potential of the speakers I might experience if I pair them with components specifically designed for streaming and music playing.

Changing much of the position of the speakers is difficult. We have two small children and I’m happy if they just ignore my stuff 😊 I would have to test if pulling the speakers a bit into the room would make a difference, especially the left one is maybe too close to the cupboard – but it would only be temporarily change for a listening session when I’m alone.

The benefits of the AVR are simply the fact that I have connected the TV source and Blu-ray player to it and we also often watch content from YouTube, Netflix and Disney+. I’d say the ratio of music to other content is maybe 20:80 percent.

And no, I don’t use it for multichannel at the moment. The decision to go for an AVR was on one side that I have “one box” that fulfil all my needs and on the other side I got it for an affordable price.

 

[Tonestar1]

Hi Chris,
Welcome. To my mind you have a lot of money invested in an amp you don't really use to anywhere near its intended purpose. I would suggest this, originally £2500 , as a product that would improve performance and meet your requirements. Its a bargain at this price.

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[bigboss]

180 degree or 360 degree speakers widen the sweet spot in a room, like Beolab 20. They sound beautiful, not cheap though (they're active speakers with built-in amplifier, so you won't need a separate amplifier to drive them).

 

[Chris S.]

Good Morning


Thank you for your input, Thornstar1.


Maybe you’re right 😊 I’m not going to try to justify my purchase, just explaining how I ended up with the X4500H.

I was very (!) lucky to get a brand-new pair of the MA’s including the 5 years guarantee for around 790 GDP. Then I needed a device to power them. At the time I was more a fan of beautiful loudspeakers but not really into the rest of a HiFi system (and I’m still not!). What I knew was, that you need multiple devices and if you don’t want to go very low end, it will easily cost 3 times or even more of what I have paid for the MA’s. Spending an additional +/- 3000 GDP on devices I had not really a clue about was simply not justifiable at the time.

I told my brother, who was working for a HiFi shop at the time, that I bought new loudspeakers and I need to buy the rest. I told him that connecting all my devices (TV, Blu-Ray player, TV player, console, … )would be nice and if possible, all at a reasonable price. He suggested to have a look at AVR’s (don’t blame my brother for bad advice, the conversation lasted only a few minutes 😊).

So I asked google about AVR’s and ended up finding, among others, the 5 star review on whathifi.com along with an offer from a local online store for 960 GDP (down from 1600 GDP). So it seemed nothing wrong in buying the X4500H. And to be honest, with the sound, functions, usability, for “TV content” and gaming I’m 100% happy and for music listening 90% happy. I’m only curious to find out if there is another 10 (or even more?) % happiness hidden somewhere in the loudspeakers. The price I paid for the AVR seems reasonable, or at least I don’t have the feeling I spent too much money for what I got.

So, yes, I don’t use the full potential of the device and there are more suitable solutions. And who knows, maybe one day I expand to a 5.1 system, especially as a lot of the Netflix content supports 5.1.

 

[plastic penguin]

Good Morning


Thank you for your input, Thornstar1.


Maybe you’re right 😊 I’m not going to try to justify my purchase, just explaining how I ended up with the X4500H.

I was very (!) lucky to get a brand-new pair of the MA’s including the 5 years guarantee for around 790 GDP. Then I needed a device to power them. At the time I was more a fan of beautiful loudspeakers but not really into the rest of a HiFi system (and I’m still not!). What I knew was, that you need multiple devices and if you don’t want to go very low end, it will easily cost 3 times or even more of what I have paid for the MA’s. Spending an additional +/- 3000 GDP on devices I had not really a clue about was simply not justifiable at the time.

I told my brother, who was working for a HiFi shop at the time, that I bought new loudspeakers and I need to buy the rest. I told him that connecting all my devices (TV, Blu-Ray player, TV player, console, … )would be nice and if possible, all at a reasonable price. He suggested to have a look at AVR’s (don’t blame my brother for bad advice, the conversation lasted only a few minutes 😊).

So I asked google about AVR’s and ended up finding, among others, the 5 star review on whathifi.com along with an offer from a local online store for 960 GDP (down from 1600 GDP). So it seemed nothing wrong in buying the X4500H. And to be honest, with the sound, functions, usability, for “TV content” and gaming I’m 100% happy and for music listening 90% happy. I’m only curious to find out if there is another 10 (or even more?) % happiness hidden somewhere in the loudspeakers. The price I paid for the AVR seems reasonable, or at least I don’t have the feeling I spent too much money for what I got.

So, yes, I don’t use the full potential of the device and there are more suitable solutions. And who knows, maybe one day I expand to a 5.1 system, especially as a lot of the Netflix content supports 5.1.

Have you tried experimenting with speaker positioning: Toe-in and out and moving them further from the wall?

 

[Chris S.]

I will paly some tracks this afternoon, once my 7 hour virtual meeting is over
Will let you know the outcome!

 

[Deleted member 116933]

Good Morning


Thank you for your input, Thornstar1.


Maybe you’re right 😊 I’m not going to try to justify my purchase, just explaining how I ended up with the X4500H.

I was very (!) lucky to get a brand-new pair of the MA’s including the 5 years guarantee for around 790 GDP. Then I needed a device to power them. At the time I was more a fan of beautiful loudspeakers but not really into the rest of a HiFi system (and I’m still not!). What I knew was, that you need multiple devices and if you don’t want to go very low end, it will easily cost 3 times or even more of what I have paid for the MA’s. Spending an additional +/- 3000 GDP on devices I had not really a clue about was simply not justifiable at the time.

I told my brother, who was working for a HiFi shop at the time, that I bought new loudspeakers and I need to buy the rest. I told him that connecting all my devices (TV, Blu-Ray player, TV player, console, … )would be nice and if possible, all at a reasonable price. He suggested to have a look at AVR’s (don’t blame my brother for bad advice, the conversation lasted only a few minutes 😊).

So I asked google about AVR’s and ended up finding, among others, the 5 star review on whathifi.com along with an offer from a local online store for 960 GDP (down from 1600 GDP). So it seemed nothing wrong in buying the X4500H. And to be honest, with the sound, functions, usability, for “TV content” and gaming I’m 100% happy and for music listening 90% happy. I’m only curious to find out if there is another 10 (or even more?) % happiness hidden somewhere in the loudspeakers. The price I paid for the AVR seems reasonable, or at least I don’t have the feeling I spent too much money for what I got.

So, yes, I don’t use the full potential of the device and there are more suitable solutions. And who knows, maybe one day I expand to a 5.1 system, especially as a lot of the Netflix content supports 5.1.

Hi Chris, thanks for this. Well, you can either buy for the now or the future. But you have to asked yourself truthfully will you ever go the full 5.1 route. As others have suggested perhaps have a play with positon as the speakers are very close to the wall in the picture. It will make the sound stage more holographic and will enhance the clarity pulling them out. But at first, it will sound very different you will have to get used to it.

I suggest making small changes no more than 5cm at a time and only changing one thing at a time.

The Denon is no slouch and plenty more should be able to be pulled from it. Have you played with the auto EQ within the amp? I find these amps are designed to form the ground up to take advantage of it and they can sound a bit flat a lifeless without it engaged.

But have a play and report back when you have

 

[Deleted member 160668]

'What I’m not a 100% convinced of is the sound when playing Spotify'

No one going to mention the elephant in the room?

I've only skimmed the thread, so perhaps I've missed it, but the first thing I'd be doing is trying to stream Tidal or Qobuz to see if you are still disappointed.

Spotify is limited to 356kbps at Premium level where Tidal will play Flac or Master quality and sounds much better. I've had both and currently use Tidal as it sounds so much better. Before you spend any money or even think about changing anything at all... get a free trial of Tidal or similar and see if you are still disappointed.

 

[Jez l]

Hi Chris.
Lovely looking room
I've taken a quick look at the pic and my first thought was that the speakers look very close to the wall. As stated above could be worth playing about with position.

There are a lot of hard surfaces their too, that maybe impacting things too.

Since my time in this hobby I've realised that the biggest impacts on a system is the interaction between room and speaker. Get those right and you are 70/80% there in my opinion

 

[Chris S.]

Good morning and thanks a lot for all your comments, it’s much appreciated!

you have to asked yourself truthfully will you ever go the full 5.1 route.

To be honest, it’s more a dream than a fixed plan. I see too many obstacles to overcome, cables, loudspeakers in the walkway, children, wife…. If I ever have the chance to build a house, then it will definitively be in.

As others have suggested perhaps have a play with positon as the speakers are very close to the wall in the picture. It will make the sound stage more holographic and will enhance the clarity pulling them out. But at first, it will sound very different you will have to get used to it.



I suggest making small changes no more than 5cm at a time and only changing one thing at a time.

I've taken a quick look at the pic and my first thought was that the speakers look very close to the wall. As stated above could be worth playing about with position.

I did some testing yesterday. I ended up with pulling the speakers into the room approximately 30cm. this didn’t change much. However, I then turned them a bit inwards, so that the drivers faced directly to my seating position. Well, this changed a lot!


When playing Louane’s Avenir, the bass changed to be sharper / more agile, however lost a bit of power. But definitively liked it more. The composition of heights, voice, and bass was comparable to before, except for the change in bass.


Playing Joya Marleen’s Nightmare was another goose bump moment. What changed dramatically with the new position was that the voice now definitively was located in the middle of the two speakers in one spot. Weird though was, when I closed my eyes I heard the voice from the center but the guitar (?) was changing from left to right continuously. I assume it was the way the song was mixed / recorded.

Have you played with the auto EQ within the amp?

I’ve seen the setting to be “off”. Still need to figure out how to turn it on. Will try that tomorrow.

get a free trial of Tidal or similar and see if you are still disappointed.

Thank you for the hint; I will definitively try the free version of Tidal. We (my wife) started to use Spotify way back before I had the MAs / Denon. I think the price is nearly double compared to Spotify, will see if the upgrade is worth the money.

Lovely looking room

Thank you unfortunately, the kids manage to change it to a complete mess in minutes

There are a lot of hard surfaces their too, that maybe impacting things too.



Since my time in this hobby I've realised that the biggest impacts on a system is the interaction between room and speaker. Get those right and you are 70/80% there in my opinion

I agree, what I don’t like in particular is the cupboard. Changing much there, or adding some damping material on the floor / walls will be a challenge - let's see

uff, that was a lot of copy past of "quote" and "/quotes", I hope i didn't mix up your quotes. If I did, my apologies!