Yamaha Z7 to Pioneer LX83 - A Worthy Upgrade ?

[admin_exported]

I have had a Yamaha Z7 for a couple of years now and have been very happy with its performance. However, I like to change things every couple of years and have the opportunity to get a Pioneer SC-LX83 as a replacement.

Is this a worthy upgrade or will I regret it ?

Thank you

 

[bigboss]

The Z7 is superior to LX83. Demo both & decide if you think it's worth an upgrade. I think not. What speakers have you got?

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the post bigboss.

Is there a specific reason why the Z7 is superior to the LX83 ?

My speakers are as follows :

Mission 754F (front)

Mission 752F (rear)

Kef 200c (centre)

BK Monolith DF (sub)

The room is 22ft x 16ft so quite a big space to fill !

Thank again.

 

[bigboss]

The LX83 is more in the league of Yamaha RX-V3900 which is a step below the Z7.

DSP-Z7 offers greater scale & depth to the sound as compared to the 3900 & LX83. It's in a completely different league altogether.

 

[bigboss]

Having said that, some people prefer the Pioneer with movies as compared to the Yamaha. The slightly different presentation to the sound may just appeal you. A demo is on the cards!

 

[Frank Harvey]

Personally, I wouldn't say that it's worth changing from a DSPZ7 to an SCLX83. They're both excellent, and roughly on par with each other, give or take a couple of things.

I moved from a Yamaha 3800 to a Pioneer 82, and found the Pioneer drove and controlled my old M&K S150's much better than the Yamaha did. It was quite a difference, so much so, I changed to the 83 when that was released. The DSPZ7 wasn't quite good enough to drive S150's properly, and couldn't make them sound how they were intended to. It was much better suited to the M&K LCR750's (a model below the S150's). The DSPZ7/LCR750 combo was perfect.

So if you find your Missions are demanding more than your Z7 can give, it's worth trying the Pioneers, as they have more grip due to their digital amplification. If you feel the Z7 runs them fine, then your next step is really going to be the pre/power route in order to improve things - something like the Onkyo 5509 with a good multi-channel power amp. The 5509 will give you better processing and much better room EQ, as well as independent ISF settings for each video input. Or, you could add a better power amp to your DSPZ7 and use it as a processor.

Think carefully - you have a great receiver!

 

[BenLaw]

they have more grip due to their digital amplification

??

 

[Frank Harvey]

they have more grip due to their digital amplification

??

As I've stated. I can only what I've experienced. Pioneer's (well, B&O's) digital ICE amplification has more grip and control than equivalent Class A/B models.

 

[The_Lhc]

If you're desperate to spend money I'd be inclined to get matching fronts to go with your centre, it's not usually a good idea to mix and match the fronts and centre.

 

[bigboss]

they have more grip due to their digital amplification

??

As I've stated. I can only what I've experienced. Pioneer's (well, B&O's) digital ICE amplification has more grip and control than equivalent Class A/B models.

Interesting read here:

http://www.classd.com.es/bang-olufsen-icepower-classd/bang-olufsen-icepower/

 

[Frank Harvey]

One of these days, I'll learn to stop calling it digital... :doh:

With the SCLX85, Pioneer have now dropped ICE and changed to DirectFET amplification.

When I changed from my Pioneer to the Onkyo processor (for higher quality processing and room EQ), I wanted to keep the amplification as similar as possible, as I didn't want to lose the sound and grip that I had, and I knew that most 5-channel power amplifiers that I could've afforded just wouldn't do the job, and I'd have ended up with some 'hi-fi warmth', which I didn't want - I want my AV system to be more neutral and accurate. So I went with the Class D Rotel RMB1575, which did the trick.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Judethedude

For a worthwhile upgrade over the DSP-Z7 look at the new Aventage RX-A2010 or the Aventage RX-A3010 AV receivers. If the RX-A2010 and RX-A3010 are not within your budget then i'll recommend that you carry on using your DSP-Z7.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for the excellent advice.

I have previously only had Arcam and Yamaha AVR amps and so I'm interested to try the Pioneer LX83 to see how it sounded with the Mission speakers which have a nice warm sound. I do sometimes wonder if the sound combination of the Z7 and the Missions is a bit too smooth/warm and consequently possibly lacking in openess and detail.

Unfortunately, I can't afford an upgrade to one of the new range of AVR amps at the moment (£1500+) and so thought the Pioneer might add something different to my system within a budget I could afford.

I guess I could always try the LX83 and, if I don't like it, sell it on. The only problem is that, as the LX83 is a newer amp than the Z7, it commands a higher price ans so I would be paying more for the LX83 than I would get for the Z7 should I decide to sell it.

The LX83 go for around £850 s/h but the Z7 about £650 so it's quite a big difference. Is the anything else I should be looking at within the same budget ?

I had a Mission 75C centre speaker for a couple of years but was never happy with it. After doing some research I decided to try the Kef 200C and have found it far superior to the 75C and a good sonic match for the 754F's and 752's.

Thanks again.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I do sometimes wonder if the sound combination of the Z7 and the Missions is a bit too smooth/warm and consequently possibly lacking in openess and detail.

I can understand that, it was exactly how I felt with my older 3800. In that case, I think you'll find the LX83 a breath of fresh air

I guess I could always try the LX83 and, if I don't like it, sell it on. The only problem is that, as the LX83 is a newer amp than the Z7, it commands a higher price ans so I would be paying more for the LX83 than I would get for the Z7 should I decide to sell it.

If you can keep hold of the Z7 as well, at least if the 83 doesn't work out you'll have it to fall back on.

The LX83 go for around £850 s/h but the Z7 about £650 so it's quite a big difference. Is the anything else I should be looking at within the same budget ?

Not really - between the LX83 and the Z7, you have two of the best AV amplifiers/receivers of the last five years.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the additional comments FrankHarveyHiFi.

I can understand that, it was exactly how I felt with my older 3800. In that case, I think you'll find the LX83 a breath of fresh air

The Z7 is excellent for music (to my ears), does the LX83 come anywhere close ? Ninety five per cent of my listening is films/Sky HD and so it's not a major problem if not.

If you can keep hold of the Z7 as well, at least if the 83 doesn't work out you'll have it to fall back on.

I would certainly not consider parting with the Z7 until I had given the LX83 a full road test.

Not really - between the LX83 and the Z7, you have two of the best AV amplifiers/receivers of the last five years.

Thats very reassuring

I'm at the stage now thinkng that if I don't try it, I'll keep thinking about it and end up doing it in the near future anyway. Although both the Z7 and the LX83 seem to hold their values reasonably well, they will both depreciate further (and equally) over the next 18 months to 2 years and so I'll lose out the same financially either way so what have I got lose ?

Thanks again for the continued support.

 

[Frank Harvey]

If you read up on Class D amplification in the link posted earlier, you'll see the benefits of ICE amplification, but you'll hear a cleaner, sharper with a lower noise floor. It's almost like taking a photo with an old film camera - slightly soft round the edges, easy on the eyes. Then you take a pic with your new digital SLR....

 

[Anonymous]

If you read up on Class D amplification in the link posted earlier, you'll see the benefits of ICE amplification, but you'll hear a cleaner, sharper with a lower noise floor. It's almost like taking a photo with an old film camera - slightly soft round the edges, easy on the eyes. Then you take a pic with your new digital SLR....

An interesting Analogy. I'll guess there's only one way to find out, buy a digital camera and compare the two pictures to see which one I prefer !

 

[CnoEvil]

If you read up on Class D amplification in the link posted earlier, you'll see the benefits of ICE amplification, but you'll hear a cleaner, sharper with a lower noise floor. It's almost like taking a photo with an old film camera - slightly soft round the edges, easy on the eyes. Then you take a pic with your new digital SLR....

An interesting Analogy. I'll guess there's only one way to find out, buy a digital camera and compare the two pictures to see which one I prefer !

Give me the "Box Brownie" any day.

 

[pete321]

I breathed new life into my Z7 (in terms of excitement & timing) by having all the opamps upgraded to LM4562's. Sent it away to Brent at Fidelity Audio.

 

[Anonymous]

Give me the "Box Brownie" any day.

The "Box Brownie" will be sitting safely in the cupboard, just in case.

 

[Anonymous]

I breathed new life into my Z7 (in terms of excitement & timing) by having all the opamps upgraded to LM4562's. Sent it away to Brent at Fidelity Audio.

I can't imagine that was cheap, particularly taking into account the delivery costs there and back !

 

[bigboss]

I breathed new life into my Z7 (in terms of excitement & timing) by having all the opamps upgraded to LM4562's. Sent it away to Brent at Fidelity Audio.

I can't imagine that was cheap, particularly taking into account the delivery costs there and back !

Delivery costs will be a miniscule amount compared to the cost of upgrade. As you're planning to part fund your purchase by selling the Z7, the upgrade option is way beyond your budget. I've never bothered myself with these upgrades personally.

 

[pete321]

I think I paid about £200 for the 16 opamps to be replaced. I've found opamp replacement to be a relatively cheap upgrade considering the sound improvement they give. Although not in the same configuration, my Z7 now has the same opamps as used in the Z11.

Out of the 3 items in my hifi which I've had modded (DAC, Z7 & Blu-Ray), I'd say it was only the Blu-Ray upgrade that didn't represent excellent value for money. The opamp upgrade for the stereo analogue output was well worth it in my UD5005, but upgrading the clock and it's power supply was expensive and produced little noticeable improvement.

A £5 LM4562 opamp replacing a manufacturers favourite JRC jobbie, is like changing your freebie analogue leads for a decent pair!

 

[ellisdj]

The Z7 is superior to LX83. Demo both & decide if you think it's worth an upgrade. I think not. What speakers have you got?

Mate you are talking absolute tosh - and misleading the other guy badly - not trying to offend you but its true

The Z7 is not a patch on the LX83 i Have owned both and I would say the LX83 is about 50% better in every area.

The Z7 was a good amp until I heard the LX83 - its in another league to lesser amps from Yamaha such as the 3900

Get the LX83 mate you wont be dissapointed once its setup properly

 

[bigboss]

The Z7 is superior to LX83. Demo both & decide if you think it's worth an upgrade. I think not. What speakers have you got?

Mate you are talking absolute tosh - and misleading the other guy badly - not trying to offend you but its true

I'm only saying what my personal experience is. We all have our personal preference to sound. I hated the Pioneer personally.

You seem to have missed my subsequent posts:

Having said that, some people prefer the Pioneer with movies as compared to the Yamaha. The slightly different presentation to the sound may just appeal you. A demo is on the cards!