Yamaha rxv1900 with monitor audio mass speakers ,good combination???

[Deleted member 2457]

I agree demos are definitely the way to go, but not always possible. At Sevenoaks you should look at knocking around 25 per cent off a speaker package.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

WHF have done system builders in their mag and the Pioneer 86 got paired with the Monitor Audio Apex and the Monitor Audio RX6 AV12 package.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Where do you live? You're spending a lot of money, so I think it's worth a trek for the demo.

I'm in the east of Scotland ,I've trusted the reviews before with all my kit,I just feel a surround sound demo in a demo room triple the size of my room won't give me a real feel of how it will sound,the money at the moment isn't really a problem I'm not mr loaded but with the amps and speakers in the space I have I think maybe going all out with really expensive amps that can handle 9.2 and speakers that put out 150w might just be overkill ,it's a 5x5m room with 3 stone walls,the yamaha is very good I just feel I'm missing out with big action films.i really wanted the zt65 but with the speakers and amp just because I can afford it dosent mean I should buy it. :?

A dedicated 5.1 system will make a massive difference to your movie experience as compared to the soundbar. A demo in the shop's demo room will at least give you an idea about how it will sound. You can then enter into an agreement with the dealer for exchanging your speakers / receiver if you're not happy with the sound at home. Most will oblige.

Hello theflyingwasp,

If you can find your way from your particular niche in the East of Scotland to Edinburgh, you could visit Daniel@theMovieRooms, he writes on this forum and you can contact him officially to see what is reasonably locally on offer. James Morrow in the Tollcross area of Edinburgh are good as well. Also consider a trip to Glasgow, but I'm not quite sure what is on offer there any more after a couple of AudioVisual outlets closed in the last few months. If all else fails you could pass by my flat in Edinburgh (mention me at theMovieRooms and at JamesMorrow), if the moderators on this forum will give contact details privately, where you could see what 5.1 (and upwards) systems sound like, with appropriate amplification. Specifically, regarding speaker packages, you could hear what my kitchen system which is based on a 9.2 receiver and Eltax Shine speakers, see this 5.0 package here http://www.son-video.com/Rayons/HomeCinema/EnceintesAV/Eltax-Shine.html This 5.0 package recently cost, including postage and currency conversion, £504 to import it from France. Note that this does not have a subwoofer - you could consider something like the Tannoy TS2.12, see one review here http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/article/tannoy-ts212-subwoofer-review/12593 or the SVS SB1000, see review here http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/article/svs-sb-1000-review/16008 both of which can be had for under £500, so your total speaker package would cost under £500. Lastly, if you do visit my flat, I could - and here I'm about to say something that many people will regard as anathema - show you what can be achieved WITHOUT a subwoofer IF AND ONLY IF your front speakers are large enough, and if you tell the surround-sound amplifier that you are not using a subwoofer, so that the amp send the Low Frequency Effect signal to the (large) front speakers.

Honestly, buying amps and speakers is not like buying TV's and Bluray players (where to a certain degree, a 'perfect' picture is objectively measurable and not subjective like preferences around sound signature). Appreciate it's a day out at least to do a demo, but look at it this way, how long will you likely be keeping the kit for, and how many hours are you going to spend listening to it?

Ideally I would demo before purchase too, but as it happens I've bought most of my surround-sound speakers and receivers over the last five years without a prior audition, and they all seem to work fine together. Maybe I've just been lucky!

 

[theflyingwasp]

Hello Son_of_SJ

Thank you sir for your time ,information and links in your response to my question,I phoned James morrow today at 4 and they would be more than happy to set a few things up for me as long as I give them some notice before I come.

There's a lot of stuff rolling about in my head ,only thing I'm leaning towards is the pioneer SC-LX86 ,it does say in the review take care with speaker matching.

Like I've said tho if all websites and magazines are giving a product 5star and reference reviews etc you shouldn't really go wrong when choosing kit ,I trust what hifi but the oppo 103 3star review annoyed many of us.

The speaker thing is a real headache but I know if I push the receiver and speaker budget to the max I will end up getting a separate subwoofer so I want the 5.1 or 7.1 (7.1 may be to much for the space i have) speaker set up to include a very good sub .

Getting a electrician to install my lifx lights the week before or after Steve withers comes up to do my calibration.which eh brings me to another point once I settle on my surround sound kit anyone had a audio calibration done?

I'm fairly clued up when it comes to the video side of things but I'm just starting with audio equipment I want the best I can afford but maybe the best is packed with features I will never need to use.

If all else doesn't please me your flat invitation is mighty tempting

 

[Son_of_SJ]

The speaker thing is a real headache but I know if I push the receiver and speaker budget to the max I will end up getting a separate subwoofer so I want the 5.1 or 7.1 (7.1 may be to much for the space i have) speaker set up to include a very good sub .

As I said previously, I realise that this is very much a minority view, but I would strongly suggest that if money is tight and your front speakers are large, get the very best 5.0 or 7.0 speakers that you can afford just now, and save up to add the subwoofer later.

Getting a electrician to install my lifx lights the week before or after Steve withers comes up to do my calibration.which eh brings me to another point once I settle on my surround sound kit anyone had a audio calibration done?

Before would be better, and I think that Steve Withers does audio calibrations as well. Certainly if someone pays me the £1,000 that I am owed I am thinking of maybe getting him back to do an audio calibration of my parlour and kitchen systems

I'm fairly clued up when it comes to the video side of things but I'm just starting with audio equipment I want the best I can afford but maybe the best is packed with features I will never need to use.

Almost certainly.

If all else doesn't please me your flat invitation is mighty tempting

I just wish that I had more time to listen to the damn systems! Now, at 22:47, it's too late to make much noise.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

The speaker thing is a real headache but I know if I push the receiver and speaker budget to the max I will end up getting a separate subwoofer so I want the 5.1 or 7.1 (7.1 may be to much for the space i have) speaker set up to include a very good sub .

As I said previously, I realise that this is very much a minority view, but I would strongly suggest that if money is tight and your front speakers are large, get the very best 5.0 or 7.0 speakers that you can afford just now, and save up to add the subwoofer later.

Getting a electrician to install my lifx lights the week before or after Steve withers comes up to do my calibration.which eh brings me to another point once I settle on my surround sound kit anyone had a audio calibration done?

Before would be better, and I think that Steve Withers does audio calibrations as well. Certainly if someone pays me the £1,000 that I am owed I am thinking of maybe getting him back to do an audio calibration of my parlour and kitchen systems

I'm fairly clued up when it comes to the video side of things but I'm just starting with audio equipment I want the best I can afford but maybe the best is packed with features I will never need to use.

Almost certainly.

If all else doesn't please me your flat invitation is mighty tempting

I just wish that I had more time to listen to the damn systems! Now, at 22:51, it's too late to make much noise.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

The speaker thing is a real headache but I know if I push the receiver and speaker budget to the max I will end up getting a separate subwoofer so I want the 5.1 or 7.1 (7.1 may be to much for the space i have) speaker set up to include a very good sub .

As I said previously, I realise that this is very much a minority view, but I would strongly suggest that if money is tight and your front speakers are large, get the very best 5.0 or 7.0 speakers that you can afford just now, and save up to add the subwoofer later.

Getting a electrician to install my lifx lights the week before or after Steve withers comes up to do my calibration.which eh brings me to another point once I settle on my surround sound kit anyone had a audio calibration done?

Before would be better, and I think that Steve Withers does audio calibrations as well. Certainly if someone pays me the £1,000 that I am owed I am thinking of maybe getting him back to do an audio calibration of my parlour and kitchen systems

I'm fairly clued up when it comes to the video side of things but I'm just starting with audio equipment I want the best I can afford but maybe the best is packed with features I will never need to use.

Almost certainly.

If all else doesn't please me your flat invitation is mighty tempting

I just wish that I had more time to listen to the damn systems! Now, at 22:51, it's too late to make much noise.

 

[bigboss]

I didn't like the Pioneer despite it being a 5-star product. It was a tad bright & clinical for my taste. I preferred the Yamaha. I would have ended up with a wrong purchase if I had not demoed the products first, as I was getting an excellent deal on Pioneer TV + blu ray player + AV receiver at the Sound & Vision show in Manchester in 2009.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I didn't like the Pioneer despite it being a 5-star product. It was a tad bright & clinical for my taste. I preferred the Yamaha. I would have ended up with a wrong purchase if I had not demoed the products first, as I was getting an excellent deal on Pioneer TV + blu ray player + AV receiver at the Sound & Vision show in Manchester in 2009.

In the right system Pioneer's sound fantastic! I love the sound, it is perfect in my system, I can push up the volume and it just sounds better. I think it all comes down to matches.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

BTW - Sevenoaks sale ends Saturday on the website if you are thinking of doing anything now. The Pioneer amps will not last forever at this price. They are great value at the moment.

 

[mr malarky]

Think the posts from gel & BB just highlight the importance of giving yourself the opportunity to try out a couple of amps before buying. I've had both Yamaha and pioneer amps (as well as denon) and they each have their own distinctive sound, so we could all tell you what we chose, based on what we liked, but that doesn't mean you'll like it. There isn't a 'wrong' or 'right' choice when it comes to deciding between pioneer or yahama, it really does come down to your own personal preference.

You do need a sub though! (Sorry SoSJ).

 

[bigboss]

Yup, you need a good sub. A sub makes the biggest difference to your home cinema experience, followed by the centre speaker.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I didn't like the Pioneer despite it being a 5-star product. It was a tad bright & clinical for my taste. I preferred the Yamaha. I would have ended up with a wrong purchase if I had not demoed the products first, as I was getting an excellent deal on Pioneer TV + blu ray player + AV receiver at the Sound & Vision show in Manchester in 2009.

That's why you keep stressing the importance of demos!

 

[Son_of_SJ]

You do need a sub though! (Sorry SoSJ).

Yup, you need a good sub. A sub makes the biggest difference to your home cinema experience, followed by the centre speaker.

Oh, I do realise that I'm in a minority, probably a minority of one!

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating not using a subwoofer, if money is no object. I'm saying that IF money is tight, and also IF your front speakers are big enough, you can get by without a subwoofer, temporarily, until you can afford to add a subwoofer later. It won't be as good as with a subwoofer, but can be surprisingly effective. (Remember though, that you have to tell the surround-sound receiver that you are not using a subwoofer, so that it sends the Low Frequency Effect stuff to the Large front speakers instead of to the absent subwoofer.) Don't compromise on getting good 5.0 or 7.0 speakers in order to squeeze in the cost of a subwoofer, which will be at least £300. This is true of both my parlour and kitchen systems, but then my kitchen front speakers have side-firing 8" woofer drivers, and my parlour front speakers each have two 10" bass drivers. So doing without the subwoofer, temporarily, would be possible for me.

Maybe one day I'll get the chance to demonstrate this to a doubting forumite, if they visit Edinburgh!

 

[theflyingwasp]

You're kitchen setup is better than most people's main setup I have to ask tho you said you live in a flat and others may live in terraced or semi detached houses ,these systems must output some noise ,was watching iron man 3 on Monday and the couch was shaking and that was with the wired sub from the yamaha I can't imagine the power some of these systems must have.do you guys have your rooms treated for sound proofing,I'm lucky I'm at the back of the house with 3 stone walls with nothing behind them.

I'm getting in an electrician to install my lifx lights when ever they bloody arrive from Australia I could have walked them here faster,with all this talk of 5.1 7.1 anyone got speakers above them.

I think Dolby atmos (dont think any titles have been released for home use yet)was used in cinemas for the first time for Star Trek into darkness ,I saw a few amps able to handle 11.2 could I throw a couple of speakers in the ceiling???

 

[bigboss]

I would recommend investing in a good 5.1 system first, and then adding speakers. Going for more speakers straightaway will reduce your budget per speaker, compromising on the overall quality. Dolby Atmos is many many years away for home cinema use. You can always add speakers later.

 

[mr malarky]

The vast majority of BluRay soundtracks are still in 5.1, and as BB says the best 5.1 set-up you can afford will give better results than opting for cheaper speakers in order to get 7.1 or more.

Have you put any thought yet into whether you're going for a satellite/sub set-up, or full sized speakers?

If you go for full sized front speakers then it will be worth experimenting with using two of the "unused" channels in your amp to bi-amp the front speakers (you could possibly Bi-amp the centre as well but I don't think the results are as notable as the centre speaker only really carries dialogue most of the time).

 

[theflyingwasp]

My head is spinning,I've read 50 reviews on speakers big and small ,cheap amps expensive amps even speaker wire and banana plugs,I'm just gonna take it slow with this one ,I also have Steve withers coming up in October so I will get his opinion aswell with the space I have.like I said before just because I can afford some of the best gear (within reason) doesn't mean I should buy it .i liked the pioneer amp but others swayed me towards the Yamaha range.

I understand most blu rays are 5.1 but the avengers,Prometheus and the hunger games I think are all 7.1 ,it may be overkill with the space I have but I have this vision of being surrounded by a wall of sound .to be honest choosing the amp seems like the easier part its the bloody speakers ,the range and price of quality speakers just goes on and on,going from normal tv sound last feb to the ysp2200 from October to now which to be honest is doing me proud iron man 3 on Monday cranked up was very very good,I'm looking forward to some demos at James morrow .

After I get this sorted tho that will be me for at least 3 years,lets face it its not a cheap hobby .it can be but if I told my mates I'd spent 4grand on a tv they would beat me to death with my own shoes!

 

[mr malarky]

Banana plugs - yes, definitely; make life much less hassle if you ever want to disconnect your kit for any reason.

Speaker wire - IMO its probably not worth spending much more than £5 per metre so don't get sucked into paying a fortune. However, if you do decide to bi-amp your front speakers you'll want bi-wire cable (basically 4 strands in the cable, rather than two).

7.1 - if your hearts set on it and you can afford it then go do it, just don't compromise on your preferred choice of speakers in order to get it (you could just lay the cable now and add the speakers later).

Pioneer amp - I've been extremely happy with my LX-75 ever since I've got it so would be a great choice, just honestly think you should check out the Yamaha as well before making a final decision (you don't want to drop £1-£1.4k in an amp and then hear a different one 3 months later and find you prefer the sound!).

Taking time - yep, smart move, your spending a lot of cash here and will hopefully spend many hours listening to the results, so no sense rushing this one!

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Have you put any thought yet into whether you're going for a satellite/sub set-up, or full sized speakers?

This really is one of the first and most important questions to answer, on which a lot will depend.

If you go for full sized front speakers then it will be worth experimenting with using two of the "unused" channels in your amp to bi-amp the front speakers (you could possibly Bi-amp the centre as well but I don't think the results are as notable as the centre speaker only really carries dialogue most of the time).

In my kitchen I have front height or presence speakers, but I use them in the Bi-amp configuration. However, let's start with the basic 5.1 (or 5.0, as I keep saying, IF your front speakers are full size) speaker set up.

Oh, just a thought. Starting with 5.1, you can always add one or two more pairs of speakers. However, that assumes that your surround-sound receiver will be able to drive these extra speakers. With expansion in mind, you have to buy a surround-sound receiver that will drive at least nine speakers, that will save replacing a 5.1 or 7.1 receiver later on. And, if you have visions of 11.2, currently only two receivers do that, I believe - Denon 4520 and the Yamaha 3020, and both need an external stereo amplifier.. Both cost about two grand. As you said, it's an expensive hobby. However, I can say that if I use my parlour system in straight 5.1 mode, and then switch to the 11.1 mode using my second-had ebay Sony amplifier for the front wide speakers, there is a noticeable improvement.

If your head spins any more it will fall off your shoulders!

 

[theflyingwasp]

Eh yes my head is now hanging by a thread

11.1 is never going to happen ,this no sub setup could be a whole thread of its own my friend

I think i will stick to a 5.1 to begin with ,see how that sounds then quickly move up to 7.1 depending on price.

I think i might even buy all the gear down to the speaker wire then leave them in the box until i get an audio calibration done that way i know its set up right.a lot of the audio tech and talk is going over my head at the moment.

I just want to buy equipment that is going to do me for quite a while hence the reason i bought the oppo103 and the zt65.

 

[bigboss]

Sensible plan, except.... Once you buy your equipment, set it up. No point in leaving them in boxes & risking not being able to return easily in case of a fault if past the returns period. Get a professional AV installer to set it up for you. They normally charge £35-40 per hour.

 

[mr malarky]

Eh yes my head is now hanging by a thread

11.1 is never going to happen ,this no sub setup could be a whole thread of its own my friend

I think i will stick to a 5.1 to begin with ,see how that sounds then quickly move up to 7.1 depending on price.

I think i might even buy all the gear down to the speaker wire then leave them in the box until i get an audio calibration done that way i know its set up right.a lot of the audio tech and talk is going over my head at the moment.

I just want to buy equipment that is going to do me for quite a while hence the reason i bought the oppo103 and the zt65.

The auto set-up functions on most modern AV amps are incredibly good, so while I wouldn't try to talk you out of having a full audio calibration done (I've been wondering about whether to try having it done on my own system, largely on a "what can I do next to improve things further without spending a load of cash" basis), you wouldn't need to wait until having done before you could enjoy using your new kit. When Steve Withers did my TV he said he rarely ever does audio calibration now as there's so little demand for it, so if you do decide to do it this you could probably leave it until last as the final piece of your AV jigsaw.

Keep in mind too that speakers need a LOT of running in before they start to give you their 'true' sound. This is particularly true of monitor audio speakers, that can sound quite bright to some people initially, but applies to pretty much all speakers, so you'd want to have gone through that process before getting a pro in with sound meters etc.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

It's probably not a good thing for me to agree most of the time with Mr Malarky and bigboss, but the last posts that they gave were absolutely spot on - if you buy stuff, don't leave it in boxes for ages, play it.

I popped into JamesMorrow today. If you've not been there previously, it's quite a nice shop. I'm free during most daytimes, so if you let me know when you go there, I could maybe meet you at the END of your demonstration, and we'll see if you've had enough (your famous spinning head again!) or whether you would also want to hear my stuff. I'm 14 minutes' walk from JamesMorrow.

 

[theflyingwasp]

Yes i agree with bigboss it was a bit silly for me not to at least make sure the blimen equipment work first.another good point mr malarky made that i didnt give a thought to was to give the speakers a good run in before i even think about audio calibration.

Thank you for the invite son of sj i sense i may have to sell a kidney when i hear your setup.maybe 5.1 or 7.1 might no do .damn you.

Looking forward to when i can tinker with the little thing after i get the equipment sorted.like i said it isnt a cheap hobby ,it can be but you will alwayspay a premium for quality.im not saying the most expensive is the best but id rather save and get what i want than get something i may replace in a year.

As for the audio calibration i might as well go the whole hog.

Yes my boss and i popped into richer sounds and the home cinema centre last year .dont know how we missed james morrow.there isnt much of these guys left.