Would you pay for a demo

[CnoEvil]

- I have never paid for a demo, either in shop or at home.

- I agree with those that say it's about building a relationship with a knowledgeable dealer, that you trust.

- From the dealer side, it is often about sowing a seed and playing the long game, which can include musical evenings, open days, brand demo days and sending out updates on interesting deveopments.

- The two dealers I use, had to batten down the hatches when the recession hit, as "luxary" items like hifi were the first things that people cut back on.

- The advent of the internet also hasn't helped - some do the demos in the dealer and then by over the net, while others think that buyng hifi is about getting 5* products as cheaply as possible online, without the need for expert guidance.

- If it's not the norm to charge for an in-shop dem, it's hard to swim against the tide.

- IMO. It is reasonable to charge for a product that is taken for a home dem and then refunded if/when returned.

- IMO. With hifi being so subjective, easy/free access to proper (shop) dems is vital, especially if repeat business is sought.

 

[jonathanRD]

I wouldn't want to pay for a demo. On one occasion I found that one hour for the demo was not enough and if I was paying for it that would be an unwanted extra pressure. To take this further, would you pay for the time taken to box up a pair of speakers ready for home demo?

I've been purchasing from my dealer since 1992 - its not a regular thing but they do recognise me when I enter the store. When I have taken stuff home for demo, they simply swipe my credit card just in case I don't bring it back.

Unless it was an absolute 'no brainer' I would rather continue to use my local dealer even though I may end up paying slightly more for the product. They are very close to where I live, so it is easy for me to return items for repair - and their service is very good.

How many times do we see posters on this forum buying kit without a demo and then realizing they dont like the item. That's what I value most about a local dealer where you can demo and home demo. I don't have the money to waste to get it wrong and don't need the stress, but I still would rather not pay for a demo.

 

[dim_span]

I wouldn't want to pay for a demo. On one occasion I found that one hour for the demo was not enough and if I was paying for it that would be an unwanted extra pressure. To take this further, would you pay for the time taken to box up a pair of speakers ready for home demo?

I've been purchasing from my dealer since 1992 - its not a regular thing but they do recognise me when I enter the store. When I have taken stuff home for demo, they simply swipe my credit card just in case I don't bring it back.

Unless it was an absolute 'no brainer' I would rather continue to use my local dealer even though I may end up paying slightly more for the product. They are very close to where I live, so it is easy for me to return items for repair - and their service is very good.

How many times do we see posters on this forum buying kit without a demo and then realizing they dont like the item. That's what I value most about a local dealer where you can demo and home demo. I don't have the money to waste to get it wrong and don't need the stress, but I still would rather not pay for a demo.

problem is that many people go to a dealer for a demo, then buy off ebay (knowing full well that they were not going to buy from the dealer)

 

[Jota180]

One thing I would want to see if demos became chargeable would be a reduction in the price of the equipment to reflect the cost of the demo being recovered elsewhere.

This is what a number of golf retailers do, clubs need to be fitted, measurements taken, results assessed and then passed to the manufacturer to supply the end product built to spec (which is slightly different from hi-fi sure). The nearest independant fitters to me charge £25 for a driver fitting (25 minutes) and £45 for a set of irons (45 minutes), but this price is then deducted from the price of the clubs when you order them, which neatly sidesteps the issue of people getting their custom fit measurements and then ordering the clubs online, you either get the profit margin or you effectively get £60/hour for your services.

I've been trying to explain this to the owner of one of my local golf clubs which has an excellent driving range but no shop at all, he could clean up on equipment sales in the area as there is nowhere else that has a proper driving range and the space to setup a proper custom fitting facility but he won't have it because he's convinced everyone would buy online. It's particularly irritating as the only other outfit with a custom fitting machine (but no "real" driving range) has just closed down and his son has re-opened it selling nothing but golf clothing (I know there's a huge margin in that but if there's no proper gear to look at I won't go in there).

This seems a quite reasonable practice. But it isn't applicable to Hi-Fi demos. One custom fit is all you will ever need. So it's fair that it is charged for.

But many people need to try many different places and do many different demos to find the Audio equipment that suits them. Could get costly quite quickly.

Not to mention that it is impossible to get a custom fit online!

As I said, I would never pay for a Hi-Fi demo. Especially with distance selling rules as they are. If all these places started charging, I would buy online and demo at home.

As it is, before I went over to the Active cult I used one of our local HifiKlubben shops. They allowed me to take home pretty much anything and try at home, as well as in the shop. No questions asked. And in the end I spent over (eqv) £2500 with them on my system.

I even got to play with the Hi End system set up in the posh room even though I obviously had no intention of spending anywhere near that! (Klasse, Lyngdorf, B&W 800 etc)

The way I see it, a good Hi-fi retailer will get repeat custom. The demo is an important part of the whole service and charging for it when the customer might have 2 or 3 more demos in the area, is a non-starter IMO.

You can buy a lot of things online but many HIFI manufacturers refuse to allow their dealers to sell their goods online.

Some manufacturers will allow certain product lines to be sold online but not others so for example, you can buy the KEF LS50 online but not the similarly priced KEF R300.

Dynaudio also follow a policy similar to KEF.

 

[The_Lhc]

Not to mention that it is impossible to get a custom fit online!

Are we still talking about golf? PING (at least, there may be others) offer an online service that claims to be able to fit clubs based on your height, arm length, swing speed, etc etc, I've no idea how effective it is and I'd never consider using it personally but the option is there.

 

[BigH]

One thing I would want to see if demos became chargeable would be a reduction in the price of the equipment to reflect the cost of the demo being recovered elsewhere.

This is what a number of golf retailers do, clubs need to be fitted, measurements taken, results assessed and then passed to the manufacturer to supply the end product built to spec (which is slightly different from hi-fi sure). The nearest independant fitters to me charge £25 for a driver fitting (25 minutes) and £45 for a set of irons (45 minutes), but this price is then deducted from the price of the clubs when you order them, which neatly sidesteps the issue of people getting their custom fit measurements and then ordering the clubs online, you either get the profit margin or you effectively get £60/hour for your services.

I've been trying to explain this to the owner of one of my local golf clubs which has an excellent driving range but no shop at all, he could clean up on equipment sales in the area as there is nowhere else that has a proper driving range and the space to setup a proper custom fitting facility but he won't have it because he's convinced everyone would buy online. It's particularly irritating as the only other outfit with a custom fitting machine (but no "real" driving range) has just closed down and his son has re-opened it selling nothing but golf clothing (I know there's a huge margin in that but if there's no proper gear to look at I won't go in there).

This seems a quite reasonable practice. But it isn't applicable to Hi-Fi demos. One custom fit is all you will ever need. So it's fair that it is charged for.

But many people need to try many different places and do many different demos to find the Audio equipment that suits them. Could get costly quite quickly.

Not to mention that it is impossible to get a custom fit online!

As I said, I would never pay for a Hi-Fi demo. Especially with distance selling rules as they are. If all these places started charging, I would buy online and demo at home.

As it is, before I went over to the Active cult I used one of our local HifiKlubben shops. They allowed me to take home pretty much anything and try at home, as well as in the shop. No questions asked. And in the end I spent over (eqv) £2500 with them on my system.

I even got to play with the Hi End system set up in the posh room even though I obviously had no intention of spending anywhere near that! (Klasse, Lyngdorf, B&W 800 etc)

The way I see it, a good Hi-fi retailer will get repeat custom. The demo is an important part of the whole service and charging for it when the customer might have 2 or 3 more demos in the area, is a non-starter IMO.

You can buy a lot of things online but many HIFI manufacturers refuse to allow their dealers to sell their goods online.

Some manufacturers will allow certain product lines to be sold online but not others so for example, you can buy the KEF LS50 online but not the similarly priced KEF R300.

Dynaudio also follow a policy similar to KEF.

Can't buy online, where?

 

[iQ Speakers]

Johnathon and Cno, paying for a demo is not a good idea full stop. In the normal situation, ie you are going to buy new and you want to find the best product in your price range. You are the types of people who dont need to pay. However there are to many people who don't fall in to this catogary. Take Matt49 for example, he does not fall into the people who are the problem. However Matt49 went on an exustive demo trail and found the perfect system for him. These are not the people paying for a demo would deter, its the people who go to listen knowing if they like somthing they will go and find it cheaper. Not valuing what the dealer has done for them, its all about ethics. Matt49 would of bought any one of the systems had it sounded the best to him. Expensive to the dealers who took part and not been sucsesful. But this is a natural nature of the business and sustainable. What is not acceptable is the people who demo with no intention of buying from the demoing dealer.

 

[paulselwood]

Well I would say, yes I would pay for a demo. I would love to hear a top of the range hifi setup, and were talking big money here. I would never be able to afford it, but by paying for a demo for hour, that system would be mine for hour.

 

[CnoEvil]

Well I would say, yes I would pay for a demo. I would love to hear a top of the range hifi setup, and were talking big money here. I would never be able to afford it, but by paying for a demo for hour, that system would be mine for hour.

Both the dealers I use would be quite happy to let you hear a really good system (for free), even if it was only out of interest. They are enthusiasts and enjoy interacting with other (genuine) enthusiasts....a good dealer often hosts musical evenings and open days.

 

[iQ Speakers]

Subtlety different knowing that's the situation. The positive publicity created from the listener, priceless. Jaguar invited me to a day at their test track to drive XF XK XJ brilliant day. Wonderful cars I mean better than BMW Audi Mercedes, no intentions of buying but the positive publicity it created, priceless.

 

[JoelSim]

Yes, but for every person who can be bothered to demo there are twenty that will buy kit without listening to it properly. As a small business owner myself I am not trying to suggest that it is easy, but the frankly obscene mark up that dealers make on Hifi equipment does not exactly instil me with any sympathy for their £2.50 loss each way on credit card fees.

Obscene?!! "Obscene mark up" is associated with clothing (£80 for a designer t-shirt?!), jewellery, and furniture (get your sofa half price? Double discount? And with 5 years interest free credit (paid for by the store, and they still make a fat profit!)?. Hell, even pound shops make more profit than hi-fi retailers! If we were working on obscene profit margins, there'd be more dealers around, they'd all have a wider range of stock (with more products in stock ready to go), there'd be better trained staff, and stores would be purpose built with perfect sounding demo rooms. As it stands, most can't even afford to run a store in a city centre any more.

Couldn't agree more David. The frankly obscene 30-40% mark up is before marketing costs at £1 a click on Google, PayPal taking more than 3%, staff costs, overheads, marketing, delivery and insurance, demos, returns. And of course that 30-40% is against RRP, all we need is one (often dodgy or foreign/exchange rate/grey import) retailer to dump the price, Amazon follow etc etc and suddenly that 30-40% is more like 10% which after overheads is a loss on many items.

Cloud cuckoo land Gazzip, sorry but you should try it some time. As David says this isn't CarpetRight playing tricks with retail prices to make things sound like a fabulous deal when it isn't. It's an extremely competitive marketplace.

 

[Gazzip]

Yes, but for every person who can be bothered to demo there are twenty that will buy kit without listening to it properly. As a small business owner myself I am not trying to suggest that it is easy, but the frankly obscene mark up that dealers make on Hifi equipment does not exactly instil me with any sympathy for their £2.50 loss each way on credit card fees.

Obscene?!! "Obscene mark up" is associated with clothing (£80 for a designer t-shirt?!), jewellery, and furniture (get your sofa half price? Double discount? And with 5 years interest free credit (paid for by the store, and they still make a fat profit!)?. Hell, even pound shops make more profit than hi-fi retailers! If we were working on obscene profit margins, there'd be more dealers around, they'd all have a wider range of stock (with more products in stock ready to go), there'd be better trained staff, and stores would be purpose built with perfect sounding demo rooms. As it stands, most can't even afford to run a store in a city centre any more.

Couldn't agree more David. The frankly obscene 30-40% mark up is before marketing costs at £1 a click on Google, PayPal taking more than 3%, staff costs, overheads, marketing, delivery and insurance, demos, returns. And of course that 30-40% is against RRP, all we need is one (often dodgy or foreign/exchange rate/grey import) retailer to dump the price, Amazon follow etc etc and suddenly that 30-40% is more like 10% which after overheads is a loss on many items.

Cloud cuckoo land Gazzip, sorry but you should try it some time. As David says this isn't CarpetRight playing tricks with retail prices to make things sound like a fabulous deal when it isn't. It's an extremely competitive marketplace.

Why not try reading the whole thread before posting your trollish responses. You might see that I apologised and admitted I was wrong. Some people.....

 

[SteveR750]

- I have never paid for a demo, either in shop or at home.

- I agree with those that say it's about building a relationship with a knowledgeable dealer, that you trust.

- From the dealer side, it is often about sowing a seed and playing the long game, which can include musical evenings, open days, brand demo days and sending out updates on interesting deveopments.

- The two dealers I use, had to batten down the hatches when the recession hit, as "luxary" items like hifi were the first things that people cut back on.

- The advent of the internet also hasn't helped - some do the demos in the dealer and then by over the net, while others think that buyng hifi is about getting 5* products as cheaply as possible online, without the need for expert guidance.

- If it's not the norm to charge for an in-shop dem, it's hard to swim against the tide.

- IMO. It is reasonable to charge for a product that is taken for a home dem and then refunded if/when returned.

- IMO. With hifi being so subjective, easy/free access to proper (shop) dems is vital, especially if repeat business is sought.

I'm with you 100%, but....it's all about location. if I had a great dealer within walking distance then I'd be chewing the fat over everything new, but if you're a starship distance away all you have is a forum and the occasional window of opportunity.

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm with you 100%, but....it's all about location. if I had a great dealer within walking distance then I'd be chewing the fat over everything new, but if you're a starship distance away all you have is a forum and the occasional window of opportunity.

The two dealers I use - the main one is 90 miles away and the other 50 miles. There is also a great dealer in Dublin (Cloney), which is over 130 miles away from me and if they had something I wanted t to hear, I wouldn't hesitate to make a day of it. NI isn't blessed with as big a choice as the mainland, but those that we do have are excellent.

I'm on the email list of both the dealers I use, wlth which they keep me informed of interesting developments/musical evenings; that and the odd phone call, just to touch base.

 

[SteveR750]

The ones you use are probably closest to me (as the car / ferry / car flies)!

 

[steve_1979]

It's a business and they have overheads to cover. I'd be happy to pay for good service within reason. £5 per hour seems reasonable.

*smile*

£5 would only be a token amount which isn't too much to pay but it's still enough to separate the wheat from the chaff from the shops point of view to stop time wasters.

True. Still sounded funny though.

I'm also a tight was and would resent spending more than a fiver.

 

[Jame5]

I'd happily pay for a demo if it was on the understanding that I had no immediate intention to buy and that I wouldn't be "sold to". Some kit intrigues me, even though I've no intention of buying it; the LS50 speakers being a good example: I don't want them but I definitely want to know what they sound like.

However, I can't see this working from a dealer's point of view, because dealers need to know that people coming through the door have at least some intention of buying something. They're set up to sell equipment, not to hire out listening rooms, equipment and kit swappers. Also, the pressure to do the right thing and buy from a dealer who has provided a good service, even at a slightly higher price, must have a powerful effect.

Whether a pure demoing service would work, where the service provider's business model has nothing to do with selling the equipment demoed is an interesting question. I suspect these would be off-puttingly high (anyone who's hired a Karaoke room recently will share this suspicion). The added problem, of course, is successfully persuading enough punters that it'll be so much more pleasant than listening to equipment in a dealership, and so worth the cash. People are free-loaders by instinct - see the state of the music industry (and you don't even get a criminal record for wasting a dealer's time).

 

[drummerman]

I'd happily pay for a demo if it was on the understanding that I had no immediate intention to buy and that I wouldn't be "sold to". Some kit intrigues me, even though I've no intention of buying it; the LS50 speakers being a good example: I don't want them but I definitely want to know what they sound like.

Actually, that is not as daft as it first seemed (apologies). Takes all the pressure away, gives the shop some income for their work and could be refunded if a purchase is made.

Like it.

 

[Jame5]

Thinking about it, even more enticing would be a home demo service along similar lines. Would anyone here pay to hire equipment short-term with absolutely no obligation (moral or legal) to buy? Obviously, you wouldn't have all the hassle/moral dilemma/capital commitment of a long distance selling return.

 

[steve_1979]

Maybe a refundable demo fee if you actually buy something would be a good idea.

 

[steve_1979]

Good idea Jame5. I'd be willing to do that if the price was right.

 

[drummerman]

Thinking about it, even more enticing would be a home demo service along similar lines. Would anyone here pay to hire equipment short-term with absolutely no obligation (moral or legal) to buy? Obviously, you wouldn't have all the hassle/moral dilemma/capital commitment of a long distance selling return.

I guess it would be possible but I normally do a home dem after the shop one if it is a significant outlay (rare these days!).

 

[HomeSound]

I think that as an industry we need more people to come in through the doors to see and hear what is on offer, a charge only introduces yet another barrier to that - all IMHO of course. There will never be a charge from me in fact you are more than welcome to come and drink my tea and eat my biscuits. If other dealers wish to adopt a charge please do carry on though.

Nick

 

[CnoEvil]

I think that as an industry we need more people to come in through the doors to see and hear what is on offer, a charge only introduces yet another barrier to that - all IMHO of course. There will never be a charge from me in fact you are more than welcome to come and drink my tea and eat my biscuits. If other dealers wish to adopt a charge please do carry on though.

Nick

That would indeed be the view of my dealers...and the correct approach (imo).

 

[SteveR750]

Maybe a refundable demo fee if you actually buy something would be a good idea.

I already suggested this some posts ago....