Would the Naim unitiqute drive the PMC 22?

[MUSICRAFT]

I've used Naim's UnitiQute with Monitor Audio's Platinum PL200 speakers and the UnitiQute has coped admirably with PL200's.

He has a habit of misleading people.

That's a pretty strong (and IMO utterly false) statement. In what way was Rick's comment misleading?

Not "pretty strong" at all just a forthright view based on 32 years of owning numerous set-ups and hearing many, many more of all budgets.

I would certainly be nervous about recommending a 30 wpc amp, costing around £1300 and connecting it with a 3.5-4k speaker which isn't the easiest to drive. Given that it's a known fact that speaker damage is very often caused by underpowered amps, his advice, at best, is misplaced.

Other outlandish claims: "Rotel RCD 965BX is the best CDP I've heard..." (He's stated this on a number of threads.

I still own the RCD975, its bigger sibling, and it retailed at around £495 in the late 90s. Very good CDP FOR MONEY. If I'd claim it was the best CDP I've ever heard you'd probably say I'm either mad or drunk... or both.

At the very least I try and advise on more suitable combos. And I always come back, even when I'm proven wrong, and apologise, something Rickcraft doesn't do, unless it's about his beloved ATCs, a Rotel amp that's rarer than smallpox in a coalmine. And numerous other examples I could give but can't be doing with it.

If any dealer had given me that advice I'd walk and never return.

Hi plastic penguin

For the RCD965 i take it that you're referring to the following thread

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/rotel-rcd965bx

I stand to be corrected but I don't recall saying that the RCD965 is the best cd player I've heard.

And again there's a surprise. Not. My recent recommendation of used Rotel's RA-1062 (a manufacturer/product which doesn't benefit me at all) has upset you again.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[the record spot]

I would certainly be nervous about recommending a 30 wpc amp, costing around £1300 and connecting it with a 3.5-4k speaker which isn't the easiest to drive. Given that it's a known fact that speaker damage is very often caused by underpowered amps, his advice, at best, is misplaced.

They are damaged if driven hard, however, as I used the Sansui AU-217 (also a 30watter) with the Mission 752 (89db) and recommended the pairing many a time on here for people looking out high quality sound for little outlay. Both come up often on the 'bay. Yes, you can fry a speaker or indeed an amp if driven hard, but use the volume control sparingly in the domestic setting and you'll be fine. I pushed mine a bit though and it was okay. I knew when to stop though as the volume would become too much and the speaker would start to distort.

The speaker itself will be fine to drive, given it's 90db so the amp won't toil, the above caveats taken into account.

 

[chebby]

[UNPUBLISHED JD]

I stand to be corrected but I don't recall saying that the RCD965 is the best cd player I've heard.

No you didn't.

Although you did call it... "one of the finest CD players ever" ...

Sold my arcam cd73 cos it was painful, (stay clear of this if you like rock/metal etc) and bought a rotel 965bx. Much better all round player and £100 in my pocket!

Hi Rick1979

Nice one 8) Rotel's RCD965BX is an excellent CD player and one of the finest CD players ever

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

(And the CD73 didn't come off too well in that little exchange either. Ouch!)

 

[steve_1979]

As JD has already mentioned, the PMC 22's have a sensitivity of 90dB and are 8ohms which makes them easy to drive so should be fine with the UnityQute at a lowish volume. However I found that the UnityQute quickly starts to run out of dynamic headroom at even moderately loud volume levels.

So a couple of questions for poldo.

Do you think that you might occasionally want to listen to music at moderate or loud volume levels? Do you have a large room and sit far away from the speakers?

If you answer yes to either of these questions then it would be worth considering something with a bit more power. I would certainly suggest that you audition it before you buy. As I said earlier the UnityQute is a nice little system and sounds great at low volume, but it doesn't take much to make it struggle.

 

[kevinJ]

I agree with Steve on most things, except for the 8ohm is easy to drive. If those 8ohm speakers dip to,let's say, 2-3ohm in the lower bass range, that would make them hard to drive for such a little amp.

Audition first, and make sure you hear it at louder levels too.

 

[John Duncan]

Right, so am having some fun here, good to see that other people are able to as well... :rollseyes:

First thing to say is that, given that my DB1is are 3dB less sensitive than the 22s, I think they'd be absolutely fine on the end of a Qute; I've been able to turn up the wick far more than I normally would whilst still remaining on friendly terms with my neighbours. The 22s should therefore go even louder. YMMV of course, since I'm in a fairly small room and this is all dependent on the music you listen to and the volumes you listen to it at - I'd have thought the right dealer would be accommodating enough to lend you both a Qute and a pair of 22s for you to hear them in situ to see if they suit.

As for nStream vs nServe, I'm not sure what you'd get from nServe that you won't get from nStream - in fact there's a particular piece of functionality missing from nServe, and that's volume control, which is a bit of a biggie for me. I'd therefore do what I've ended up leaning towards and use the UnitiServe as a ripper/NAS/UPnP server, and use the Unitiqute as a UPnP client.

For one, this means they can be separated if need be (though they look kind of cool on top of each other, much to the manual-writer's disgust, no doubt); two, you then have a kind of lower-powered Uniti, because you can pop in a CD if you want; three, the Uniti accesses everything exposed by the Unitiserve like any music you have on a network drive, which it can't access in isolation; and four, I actually found the interface on nStream a bit more intuitive - it's easier to get music playing with it by just clicking a track rather than select album/select track/look at track/press play/press play this track, which all struck me as a bit cumbersome. Note that this is my first impression after an hour with both side-by-side, so maybe I'm missing something, and I may find one is better at some things than the other.

If there's anything you can't do from nStream, then you can always *** in to nServe or access the UnitiServe via its web address (which I actually found to be the nicest interface of all, once I managed to get to it). Note though that the latter is Flash so needs to be done from a desktop or Flash-capabale tablet, not from an iThing.

Of course, an alternative to the Unitiqute if you're worried about power would be some active speakers - the digital out of a Unitiserve could go into the back of some AVI ADM9.1s, (for example - other active spakers do exist), and you get speakers and amps for less than the price of a Unitiqute on its own, whilst causing ripples in the fabric of space and time not seen since buttered toast was tied to the back of a cat dropped from a height.

EDIT - some corrections

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Ok. this Qute may drive 22s alright, but it'll never be able to achieve convincing dynamics. this combo will be OK for some in-the-background night time listening. you would even be able to crank it up a little bit with some dynamically restricted music (modern rock or pop recordings) but forget about Beethoven's symphonies.

speaking about maths. 30W will not always equal 30W. I'm guessing that this Cute would only have a pair of output devices (30W from a B class amp is quite poor result) because of the size of the thing I don't think power amp section would be any bigger. and of course, there's also the question stuffing in power supply section (which a robust one will always be considerable - capacitor bank will take up a lot of internal space). and there's for instance Musical Fidelity's AMS35i. it's a class A amp, so it's very inefficient into stable sinewaves. hence only 35W RMS. but as it has potent power supply and at least 2pairs of output devices per side (so 8 in total) it's capable of huge music/ dynamic headroom. it can yield nearly 300W per side into 8 Ohm load. I doubt Cute reaches 60W dynamic power.

the same think with mentioned Krell amp. it's even more capable than MS AMS! it may only be 50Wpc. but it's class A power. it's dynamic power is whooping 718W! (75.8V peak to peak). and 60 amps current delivery. very robust power supply and A LOT of transistors (output devices).

 

[John Duncan]

Is there a particular Beethoven symphony that I should try? I mean by actually listening to the thing sitting in my living room, as opposed to doing maths, obv.

 

[chebby]

Right, so am having some fun here, good to see that other people are able to as well... :rollseyes:

First thing to say is that, given that my DB1is are 3dB less sensitive than the 22s, I think they'd be absolutely fine on the end of a Qute; I've been able to turn up the wick far more than I normally would whilst still remaining on friendly terms with my neighbours. The 22s should therefore go even louder. YMMV of course, since I'm in a fairly small room and this is all dependent on the music you listen to and the volumes you listen to it at - I'd have thought the right dealer would be accommodating enough to lend you both a Qute and a pair of 22s for you to hear them in situ to see if they suit.

As for nStream vs nServe, I'm not sure what you'd get from nServe that you won't get from nStream - in fact there's a particular piece of functionality missing from nServe, and that's volume control, which is a bit of a biggie for me. I'd therefore do what I've ended up leaning towards and use the UnitiServe as a ripper/NAS/UPnP server, and use the Unitiqute as a UPnP client.

For one, this means they can be separated if need be (though they look kind of cool on top of each other, much to the manual-writer's disgust, no doubt); two, you then have a kind of lower-powered Uniti, because you can pop in a CD if you want; three, the Uniti accesses everything exposed by the Unitiserve like any music you have on a network drive, which it can't access in isolation; and four, I actually found the interface on nStream a bit more intuitive - it's easier to get music playing with it by just clicking a track rather than select album/select track/look at track/press play/press play this track, which all struck me as a bit cumbersome. Note that this is my first impression after an hour with both side-by-side, so maybe I'm missing something, and I may find one is better at some things than the other.

If there's anything you can't do from nStream, then you can always *** in to nServe or access the UnitiServe via its web address (which I actually found to be the nicest interface of all, once I managed to get to it). Note though that the latter is Flash so needs to be done from a desktop or Flash-capabale tablet, not from an iThing.

Of course, an alternative to the Unitiqute if you're worried about power would be some active speakers - the digital out of a Unitiserve could go into the back of some AVI ADM9.1s, (for example - other active spakers do exist), and you get speakers and amps for less than the price of a Unitiqute on its own, whilst causing ripples in the fabric of space and time not seen since buttered toast was tied to the back of a cat dropped from a height.

EDIT - some corrections

I couldn't get my head around this combo ('Qute and UnitiServe) but I think I'm beginning to get it. (Matching aesthetics, your wife still wanting straightforward CD replay*, one brand synergy, no seperate NAS, easy set-up**, iPad compatibility, compactness etc.)

*Is CD replay straightforward or do you have to jink around a lot with iPad menus? What if someone else is on the iPad in another room or away from the house? Does the UnitiServe have it's own seperate remote for CD functions?

**One would hope it's easy to set up given the price and the fact that all the hardware and software are from one company!

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Is there a particular Beethoven symphony that I should try? I mean by actually listening to the thing sitting in my living room, as opposed to doing maths, obv.

well, apart from Beethoven's symphony you'll also need spl meter and oscillometer to conduct this experiment.

you could for instance play this Symphony no5 (for instance part from about 13s to 20s) and see if you can get some 102 - 105dB at your listening position during crescendos (hence SPL meter) and the amp isn't clipping (hence oscillometer).

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Of course, an alternative to the Unitiqute if you're worried about power would be some active speakers - the digital out of a Unitiserve could go into the back of some AVI ADM9.1s, (for example - other active spakers do exist), and you get speakers and amps for less than the price of a Unitiqute on its own, whilst causing ripples in the fabric of space and time not seen since buttered toast was tied to the back of a cat dropped from a height.

I like this idea. I also seen once from hi-fi show coverage Cute fed into Dyns Focus 110A. also a good idea, but that way you're buying a power amp you're not using (waste of money).

how about Musical Fidelity M1Click into active speakers, for a neat and capable system? EDIT if you disregard AVIs with their built in DAC.

 

[bigblue235]

Was my (quite reasonable, inoffensive) post to PP stealth modded?

 

[John Duncan]

I couldn't get my head around this combo ('Qute and UnitiServe) but I think I'm beginning to get it. (Matching aesthetics, your wife still wanting straightforward CD replay*, one brand synergy, no seperate NAS, easy set-up**, iPad compatibility, compactness etc.)

*Is CD replay straightforward or do you have to jink around a lot with iPad menus? What if someone else is on the iPad in another room or away from the house? Does the UnitiServe have it's own seperate remote for CD functions?

**One would hope it's easy to set up given the price and the fact that all the hardware and software are from one company!

No I didn't get the point of the Unitiserve either, but I hadn't appreciated it acts as a player with a digital out, and as such is more akin to the HDX than anything else in the range, albeit with no display, necessitating the use of either an external display (and keyboard and mouse, quaintly connected via PS2) or app.

There's no remote, so you need those external peripherals to make it useful.

Just going to try to play a CD ad hoc, though that said there are a number of steps I have to take - turn off 'rip' mode, change the Qute to select digital input, swap over to control the Serve instead etc. So straightforward it isn't - strikes me it's better to rip the CD and then find it via UPnP.

It was easy to set up, yes, for basic playback. The Serve just exposes itself as a UPnP server and the Qute found it no problem. Stick a CD in the drawer and it rips in about four minutes (though to WAV I notice, which seems a bit wasteful, will need to look and see if it does FLAC). Adding things like network shares was more convoluted, and I'd need to think about how I'd transfer over music from its current location to reside on the Serve itself if I was going to use it as the main storage source.

 

[John Duncan]

Was my (quite reasonable, inoffensive) post to PP stealth modded?

It got caught in friendly fire whilst trying to bring the thread back on track, BB, sorry...

 

[bigblue235]

No worries, was just concerned I was losing my marbles.

 

[plastic penguin]

Perhaps worth trying some Focal speakers with the Qute...

 

[John Duncan]

you could for instance play this Symphony no5 (for instance part from about 13s to 20s) and see if you can get some 102 - 105dB at your listening position during crescendos (hence SPL meter) and the amp isn't clipping (hence oscillometer).

And you want me to do this in a 12ft x 12ft room in a terraced house?

 

[steve_1979]

Is there a particular Beethoven symphony that I should try? I mean by actually listening to the thing sitting in my living room, as opposed to doing maths, obv.

I know that your comment was intended as a joke but I actually auditioned the UnitiQute using the 4th movement of Beethoven's 9th symphony 'Ode to Joy'. This piece of music is particularly good for auditioning hifi equipment because it has a massive amount of dynamic range.

With the UnitiQute I found that it's little 30 watt amps struggled during the most powerful parts of this music even when only playing at moderately loud volume levels. JD, give it a try using the UnitiQute and your DB1's and let us know how you think it copes. Make sure you have the volume turned up a decent level and the the quiet parts of the music are still loud enough to hear properly.

 

[chebby]

Is there a particular Beethoven symphony that I should try? I mean by actually listening to the thing sitting in my living room, as opposed to doing maths, obv.

I know that your comment was intended as a joke but I actually auditioned the UnitiQute using the 4th movement of Beethoven's 9th symphony 'Ode to Joy'. This piece of music is particularly good for auditioning hifi equipment because it has a massive amount of dynamic range.

With the UnitiQute I found that it's little 30 watt amps struggled during the most powerful parts of this music even when only playing at moderately loud volume levels. JD, give it a try using the UnitiQute and your DB1's and let us know how you think it copes. Make sure you have the volume turned up a decent level and the the quiet parts of the music are still loud enough to hear properly.

Makes me wonder how I ever managed to enjoy Radio 3 (including full symphonic work) on a vintage Roberts radio.

Does it have to be played at concert hall levels?

 

[poldo]

I already own the pmc 22 right now it is hooked on my exposure amp + dac, but the qute would be very waf next to my serve.

Another option could be the supernait digital to the serve.

 

[steve_1979]

Makes me wonder how I ever managed to enjoy Radio 3 (including full symphonic work) on a vintage Roberts radio.

Does it have to be played at concert hall levels?

You don't have to play it at concert hall levels. I enjoy listening to 'Ode to Joy' using a 2.5 watt portable speaker.

It sounds ok but without enough dynamic headroom this kind of music tends to sound a bit flat and lifeless.

 

[John Duncan]

I know that your comment was intended as a joke

No, my comment was intended as a serious question so that I could

give it a try using the UnitiQute and [my] DB1's and let [you] know how think it copes

 

[steve_1979]

I know that your comment was intended as a joke

No, my comment was intended as a serious question so that I could

give it a try using the UnitiQute and [my] DB1's and let [you] know how think it copes

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

you could for instance play this Symphony no5 (for instance part from about 13s to 20s) and see if you can get some 102 - 105dB at your listening position during crescendos (hence SPL meter) and the amp isn't clipping (hence oscillometer).

And you want me to do this in a 12ft x 12ft room in a terraced house?

:?

an SPL meter would usually be palm sized. and and oscillometer would be something like the size of a largish shoe box. I believe it'll fit in comfortably into your room.



and now seriously. the smaller the room the less power you really need to get certain volume levels. so even Cute may reach considerable volume levels in your room. still, who knows maybe such a combo (Cute + DB1i) would just reach 100dB mark in such a small room if you factor in room reinforcement... but not much more though.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Makes me wonder how I ever managed to enjoy Radio 3 (including full symphonic work) on a vintage Roberts radio.

Does it have to be played at concert hall levels?

You don't have to play it at concert hall levels. I enjoy listening to 'Ode to Joy' using a 2.5 watt portable speaker.

It sounds ok but without enough dynamic headroom this kind of music tends to sound a bit flat and lifeless.

+1

I don't say you can't enjoy symphonic music on a robets radio. what I say if you want to recreate it with full dynamic range you need something more than just a roberts radio.

not to mention radio stations use their own dynamic range limiters so the music played through a roberts radio didn't sound crap.