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Will CDs ever go Hi-Res?

radiorog

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Jan 1, 2013
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Couldn't see where best to ask this question.... but as title, could CD's ever go hi-res quality and move up bitrate and sampling levels, and if not why not? Simple question i'm sure.
Cheers!
 

manicm

Well-known member
May 1, 2008
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SACDs use DSD and are actually 1 bit. And note true SACD players are relatively rare and expensive.

And if streaming DSD make sure it doesn’t get converted to PCM.
 
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millennia_one

Well-known member
Sep 1, 2014
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So the CD players would need to changed to read them then? Yeah thats a big issue there. What bitrate and sampling were SACDs? Is hi-res higher?
Yep CD players would need to be changed thats why getting people to change over has been so difficult.

As said above SACD are DSD based and true players are very expensive, though the badge gets stuck on a lot of DVD and Bluray players, only a handful will actually play true SACD quality.

you also had HDCD could never hear the difference though, the only one I had was the animated tarzan soundtrack so maybe not the best test of the format though didn't know it was till I threw in player some 10 years later.
 
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Wil

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May 8, 2020
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Why would you feel the need to do that? What benefits do you see from it?
"24-bit/192kHz file has a data rate of 9216kbps. Music CDs are 1411kbps.

The hi-res 24-bit/96kHz or 24-bit/192kHz files should, therefore, more closely replicate the sound quality the musicians and engineers were working with in the studio. And they could be that very same recorded file, too. These files are labelled as "Studio Masters" in some cases.

With more information on the file to play with, hi-res audio tends to boast greater detail and texture, bringing listeners closer to the original performance – provided your system is transparent enough."
 
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insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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"24-bit/192kHz file has a data rate of 9216kbps. Music CDs are 1411kbps.

The hi-res 24-bit/96kHz or 24-bit/192kHz files should, therefore, more closely replicate the sound quality the musicians and engineers were working with in the studio. And they could be that very same recorded file, too. These files are labelled as "Studio Masters" in some cases.

With more information on the file to play with, hi-res audio tends to boast greater detail and texture, bringing listeners closer to the original performance – provided your system is transparent enough."
Appreciate the explanation, however you didn't really answer my questions which were specific to your needs and wants. What do you expect to hear? Do you have any specific new releases you're expecting hoping they're recorded at 24/192?

As someone who works with audio every day, hopefully at a pro level later this year, I understand the theory. I can also tell you that not many people work at 24/192 and most don't go above 24/48 which seems to be favoured by many including me.

Some of my favourite Jazz recordings, albeit recorded analogue, need no more than 8/32 making CD at 16/44.1 extravagant. It's all about music, performances, recording and how it's all mixed and mastered.

And to answer your OP. We'll be lucky to have 16/44.1 CDs still in production in 10 years from now.
 

Wil

Well-known member
May 8, 2020
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I had a fall 2 hours ago, injuring my left arm from bracing the impact. So, if you're ready-for-format-war, I'll be but a later opponent.

Good luck advocating and advancing your livelihood, I expect you to fight to win by all sophistry necessary. Don't disappoint me.
Appreciate the explanation, however you didn't really answer my questions which were specific to your needs and wants. What do you expect to hear? Do you have any specific new releases you're expecting hoping they're recorded at 24/192?

As someone who works with audio every day, hopefully at a pro level later this year, I understand the theory. I can also tell you that not many people work at 24/192 and most don't go above 24/48 which seems to be favoured by many including me.

Some of my favourite Jazz recordings, albeit recorded analogue, need no more than 8/32 making CD at 16/44.1 extravagant. It's all about music, performances, recording and how it's all mixed and mastered.

And to answer your OP. We'll be lucky to have 16/44.1 CDs still in production in 10 years from now.
 

iMark

Well-known member
May 16, 2008
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The simple answer is no. CD is a standard, the Redbook CD specification, not compatible with "hires". There is already technology to combine CD and hires audio on one disc: the hybrid SACD. And there was the other attempt to mix CD and DVD on one disc: DualDisc.

As an owner of quite a few hires discs I'm still not sure whether a well produced and mastered CD isn't good enough for home use. Playing the stereo layer of a hybrid SACD is a great listening experience. But the CD layer of a hybrid SACDs tend to sound excellent too. Am I fooling myself? I like the fact that I can easily rip the CD layer and then copy the file to my iPhone.

For most people CD quality audio has always been and still is the gold standard.
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
854
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I had a fall 2 hours ago, injuring my left arm from bracing the impact. So, if you're ready-for-format-war, I'll be but a later opponent.

Good luck advocating and advancing your livelihood, I expect you to fight to win by all sophistry necessary. Don't disappoint me.
Sorry to hear about your arm. Hope it's not serious. And thank you for your kind wishes.

I'd love for CDs to be around as long as possible but don't think there will be demand. You can't download a vinyl record. CDs won't be able to compete with downloads, streaming and vinyl.
 

Oldfart

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2020
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Hi radioeg,
I have 45 SACDs. If you have a highly resolving system, you will have little difficulty in hearing the difference. Best described as more analogue, with better dynamic range and definition. 120 db vs 90 db vs maybe 70 for vinyl. As always, much depends on the recording. I have some BluRay audio discs, a single DVDa, and listen to hi res QoBuZ. Right now, I’m listening to CD quality Radio Paradise upscaled to 352.8 and it sound just lovely. Having bought my first CD player in 1984, I’m just delighted that all my digital sources no longer make me wince thanks to huge advances in DACs and filtering.
 

12th Monkey

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2015
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Even studies which suggest that proper testing shows a difference, and many do not, no-one seems to suggest the difference is that big. But who knows? I couldn't tell the difference between SACD and CD of the same mixes on different players - must do a comparison with hi res when I have a suitable streamer.

Super Audio CD - Wikipedia
 
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Oldfart

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2020
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Hi 12th monkey. Have been listening to full MQA tidal for nearly 2 years, now QoBuZ which some said was better. Both excellent to my ears. The app says 9216 bit rate. if you are listening to a violin, cello or piano guess it helps with harmonics and atmosphere. If modern digitised muzac favoured by my daughters, then won’t matter a damn, imho. Fabulous TV you have there based on my more compact versions.
 
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Wil

Well-known member
May 8, 2020
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Thanks. I'll be brief. Disregard physical CDs' future , expand your opinions about 16/44.1 vs your favoured 24/48 in (present/coming) the-age-of-streaming.
Sorry to hear about your arm. Hope it's not serious. And thank you for your kind wishes.

I'd love for CDs to be around as long as possible but don't think there will be demand. You can't download a vinyl record. CDs won't be able to compete with downloads, streaming and vinyl.
 
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bigfish786

Moderator
Jan 29, 2013
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I’ve tried a few SACD’s. A HDCD, some SHM-CD’s and the one thing that is common for them all is the production. If it’s good, it sounds good. And vice versa.
There’s not enough of a noticeable difference in improvements between any of them to be a success over redbook.
Doesn’t stop me enjoying them though. The SHM just sound like overdone remasters. So I don’t use them. I’ve got the original ones as well.
 
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Al ears

Moderator
Hi radioeg,
I have 45 SACDs. If you have a highly resolving system, you will have little difficulty in hearing the difference. Best described as more analogue, with better dynamic range and definition. 120 db vs 90 db vs maybe 70 for vinyl. As always, much depends on the recording. I have some BluRay audio discs, a single DVDa, and listen to hi res QoBuZ. Right now, I’m listening to CD quality Radio Paradise upscaled to 352.8 and it sound just lovely. Having bought my first CD player in 1984, I’m just delighted that all my digital sources no longer make me wince thanks to huge advances in DACs and filtering.
Like you I have a similar number of SACDs or perhaps a few more. I don't have any DVDa and about 15 Bluray Audio.
All of the SACDs sound better than the CD layer however some of the Bluray audio sound pretty dire, purely I suspect to the quality of mastering and transfer to that format. The dynamic range certainly shows but what is more noticeable on my system is the increased soundstage both in depth and width. Don't ask me why but it's very apparent.
For what its worth I don't think I will be purchasing many more Bluray audio discs, surround sound or not.
 
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Oldfart

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2020
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Hi Al ears. Agree Have given up listening to BluRay Audios. Some of the mastering was dire, Bret overdone hf, Elton John soundstage, super tramp and Bob Marley OK, Some tracks on the Stones Grrr ok, others awful. Only played through Denon AV amp and strangely the DTS Masters sounded better than PCM. An expensive and disappointing format to my ears and hi res streaming makes it redundant and generally sounds much better.
Hi Gray,
mine is Oxygene J M Jarre bought in 2004. Had a 7.1 system back then and the best bit was the bird flying in circles around the room. Drove the cat nuts. I mostly listen to RP mellow mix, being of a certain age. Do end up skipping some tracks, a wonderful feature. If only you could skip Jeremy Vine!
Hi OP,
sorry for thread creep. There is yet another format in Japan. MQA CD. Luxman has launched a couple of players, the D 10x a snip @£14,999
 
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ThisIsJimmy

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2020
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Western Hi-Res music seems to be gravitating to 24bit/44.1Khz led by American music Artists.

Japanese Hi-Res mainstream is either 24bit/48khz or 24bit/96Khz. It makes me smile that in Japan you can buy some of the same western music off places like Mora or Recochoku at better bit rates than Western Hi Res music shops.

As for anything Hi-res I notice it truly sounds better if it's been recorded at the higher resolution formats rather than remastered. In that regard, their is an audible difference between CDs and Hi Res audio files (I own both of some Japanese Music)

In Japan the CD isn't going to die anytime soon. Especially when you look at how they release and market CDs in Japan with exclusive content. MQA CD doesn't surprise me. I've got some blue laser CDs here that they still churn out.
 
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