Why is there literally no bass? Rotel Preamp, amp, B&W Speakers

[admin_exported]

Hi, i got a serious problem and i cannot explain it by myself... So that's why i am here.

So here is my problem: I don't hear quite the power of 100Watts/channel, furthermore the music sounds flat, with no real bass at all, unless i raise the volume to absolute high levels...i don't alter the treble/tone/bass in any way, everything is 100% direct source from FLAC.

My equipment:

I bought a used Rotel 6-channel Surround Preamp with excellent Strereo Mode... RSP 960 AX, hooked it to an old Rotel RB 956 AX 6 channel amp, 40 Watts per Channel, 100 Watts/channel when bridged.

I feed the preamp via Line In with FLACs converted to analogue by my external DAC (Yulong D100), which is connected via USB to my NAS (Synology Diskstation, where i store all my FLACs (16 Bit, 24 Bit).

I use Stereo Mode and all quality Interconnects.

The six channel amp was bridged to 100Watts/channel according to the Rotel Manual, definitely 100% correct installation/wiring of the interconnects.

My Speakers are B&W 685 (not very big, but according to several reviews impressive bass at least down to 50 Hz), have them sinc e some time, they are surely burned in, so definitely not new.

Please tell me, wether i am just wrong, but that setup MUST sound more "powerful" and there have to be some bass, some punch, some "range" and "corpus" that you can hear. Some more..."immersive" and somehow more present soundstage.

I am definitely confused, what has to be wrong here.

My living room is a square with about 30 Squaremetres, one half of a side is full of glassdoors to the outer garden. alls are reinforced concrete, floor is wooden parquetry, some textiles, some carpet, big sofa, not very much reverberation.

thanks.

 

[drummerman]

Not sure but 'immersive, corpus, more bass etc' are all very subjective.

It could be that the amplifiers just excert more grip on the cones than what you have been used to previously?

I wouldn't expect faulty equipment as you haven't mentioned any other symptomatics.

regards

 

[Anonymous]

Well you are right, it must be heard and be seen to believe me. Therefore i invited an audiophile (and quite experienced technician) to my place, i am verykeen to know what he will say.

I am just so extraordinary disappointed of what actually is being delivered to my ears of somewhat so called "hifi" gear or let's call it entry level gear, but whatever you may call it, i expected some real cool and powwerful sound, which i definitely did not get yet.

I will post updates to my story, maybe somebody will find it useful.

PS: But don'tget me wrong here - the highs and mids are imho excellently resolved/displayed, a audible advance compared to my prior integrated philips amp that lacked finesse, but had just the power (2x80Watts)....now i should have 100 Watts bridged and it sounds like 20....

 

[MajorFubar]

Is the amp for some reason still rolling-off the bass to feed a '.1' subwoofer which isn't connected up...

 

[drummerman]

Capacitors can degrade with age so it is possible that some may need replacing but its often impossible to know without measuring.

regards

 

[Anonymous]

Is the amp for some reason still rolling-off the bass to feed a '.1' subwoofer which isn't connected up...

Definitely not, because i use the pre-amps pre-out front L/R and stereo mode button (bypass surround mode), then connected the amp in bridged mode ... as shown in the manual on page 5, illustration 3

http://alturl.com/qu4m5

 

[Anonymous]

Is the amp for some reason still rolling-off the bass to feed a '.1' subwoofer which isn't connected up...

Definitely not, i am using the preamp's preo-out L/R front outs and stereo mode (button that bypasses surround), then connected the amp in brisdged mode creating two monoblocks separated channel L and R with app. 100 Watts each shown here on page 5 illustration 3.

http://alturl.com/qu4m5

 

[Anonymous]

@ major fubar:

i am using the preamp's pre-out for front LS, in stereo mode (bypassing surround), bridged the amp correctly for 100 Watts separated mono for L and R as shown in the manual.

http://alturl.com/qu4m5

Page 5, Illustration 3

 

[Frank Harvey]

I would also recommend checking the pre-amplifier's settings. Set speakers to large, select no sub, and just for the hell of it, select Pure Audio or Pure Direct, whatever it may have. I that doesn't work, its not a setting issue.

 

[Anonymous]

Is the amp for some reason still rolling-off the bass to feed a '.1' subwoofer which isn't connected up...

I am using the pre-amp's pre outs for front LS in the pre-amp's stereo mode, wich is bypassing any surround and delivering the full signal (it's a button on the front) and connected them to the amp in bridged mode shown in the manual on page 5, illustration 3:

alturl.com/qu4m5

 

[MajorFubar]

Is the amp for some reason still rolling-off the bass to feed a '.1' subwoofer which isn't connected up...

...and looking at the pre-amp's manual, I see there is a switch at the back for doing just that. Presumably it's set to 'off'?

 

[Anonymous]

thanks everybody

 

[Anonymous]

Is the amp for some reason still rolling-off the bass to feed a '.1' subwoofer which isn't connected up...

...and looking at the pre-amp's manual, I see there is a switch at the back for doing just that. Presumably it's set to 'off'?

the only switch i can see is the frequency limiter for the sub in surround mode flat/80Hz/120Hz - which is bypassed completely when in stereo mode (which is similar to "pure direct") which is the mode i am always listening in.

 

[Native_bon]

It may just be your not use to the sound of ur new system... Really sometimes upgrades do not give u the results you think you may get. I would like to know the findings of the person your inviting to investigate.

Its never wise to buy blind these days. It may just be some settings in the pre amp stage. Usually stereo mood does not mean pure direct in most cases. I dnt know much of that system... Would have liked to help futher.

All the best.

 

[MajorFubar]

Well one way or another it's either a settings-issue, a wiring-issue (I don't 'do' multichannel so all this talk about bridging-modes is alien to me) or the speakers aren't sounding good where you've got them.

 

[dragon76]

This sometimes happens even with much higher priced equipment, and in some cases it may be due to one thing many of us tend to overlook, which is acoustic treatment of the room. Your room is rather large and you need to make sure bass 'stays in the room' and doesn't dissipate into other areas. You have glass doors and this may cause the bass to be weak. Try heavy curtains over these doors, carpets in the area between the speakers and your listening position, possibly some exotic solutions, like bass traps in the corners, etc.

One think I'd note is that your BW speakers may be not enough for your room and I am certain floorstanding speakers would be better for bass. Certainly you can always add sub to your existing set up.

 

[Native_bon]

This sometimes happens even with much higher priced equipment, and in some cases it may be due to one thing many of us tend to overlook, which is acoustic treatment of the room. Your room is rather large and you need to make sure bass 'stays in the room' and doesn't dissipate into other areas. You have glass doors and this may cause the bass to be weak. Try heavy curtains over these doors, carpets in the area between the speakers and your listening position, possibly some exotic solutions, like bass traps in the corners, etc.

One think I'd note is that your BW speakers may be not enough for your room and I am certain floorstanding speakers would be better for bass. Certainly you can always add sub to your existing set up.

Hum, dragon76 dnt really agree with you there.. I had a listen to the B&W's in a really big shop.. I mean really big shop & the bass was amazing.. Its not always about the size of house.. Cause he did not have that proplem with the previous set up I think.

 

[AEJim]

I'd also double check you haven't got the connections to the bass drivers out of phase, the amps may well be wired up correctly but it's a simple mistake to make. Tweeters out of phase are far more obvious and give a weird "in your head" kind of sound but with bass drivers it isn't as obvious except for a loss of level. You could always just swap the positive and negative on one just to make sure...

 

[GCE]

- Try to move the system in another smaller room, if possible;

- try to reverse the spk connections (phase, interference, ecc.)

- use only a simple cd player, if you have one.

- heard the 685 in a 50 sqm shop and they filled up everything...with a 45w Mara.

 

[busb]

If it ain't settings perhaps it's about either speaker placement or sitting in the middle of a bass hole. Can you move the speakers closer to the wall (not corners). Dose the bass sound bigger in different parts of your room?

 

[dumbledore]

I would try another amplifier and drive it directly from the flac and see if things improve.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you all very much for your help and advice,

i just re-wired everything and checked the speaker connects again, for some reason it sounded better afterwards, with definitely audible and perceptible bass, it may have been that the wiring was somehow not properly connected. I think it still has very much to do with room acoustics. I can notice a decent drop in bass perception in other parts of the room.

Therefore i will modify the room's interior, or wait until i moved to another place this year, then i will modify the listening (living) room there.

But thanks again to everybody, you have been a great help.

My buddy (the technician) will take a look at my setup and maybe he can contribute as well.