Was looking at the Xcite 32s and Spendor A5 or A6, none bi-wirable. seems a shame, but does it really matter?
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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
why are high end floorstanders not bi-wirable? Should I care?
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Like a lot of things with hi-fi - the theory sounds good but I have never heard an improvement when using bi wire instead of single wire.
southernshawz007:Was looking at the Xcite 32s and Spendor A5 or A6, none bi-wirable. seems a shame, but does it really matter?
No point in having four connections when two work just as well.
No point in having four connections when two work just as well.
Gerrardasnails
Well-known member
southernshawz007:Was looking at the Xcite 32s and Spendor A5 or A6, none bi-wirable. seems a shame, but does it really matter?
It has to be said also that most "high end" (it's debatable which speakers would be classed in that way) speakers are bi-wireable.
It has to be said also that most "high end" (it's debatable which speakers would be classed in that way) speakers are bi-wireable.
From what I have picked up, some speakers respond well to bi-wiring, whereas with others it makes fudge all difference. If the speakers, such as Spendors, which I own a pair of, don't have a pair of binding posts for bi-wiring, then the manufacturer obviously thought there was no advantage in having them.
So, don't worry about it and be thankful that you only have to buy half the amount of speaker cabling!
So, don't worry about it and be thankful that you only have to buy half the amount of speaker cabling!
The_Lhc
Well-known member
AIUI (which is limited), any advantage to be gained from bi-wiring/amping depends entirely on the crossover employed within the speaker, which probably goes further to explain why some speaker manufacturers recommend it and others don't than anything else.
The_Lhc
Well-known member
John Duncan
Well-known member
the_lhc:
Andrew Everard:As ever, Mr H Letch speaks wisely...
Getting difficult now isn't it?
Not at all, Chelth
Andrew Everard:As ever, Mr H Letch speaks wisely...
Getting difficult now isn't it?
Not at all, Chelth
JohnDuncan:Was it fifteen grand?
Summat like that - depended on whether you wanted them in standard colours or a custom job.
Saw several pairs at the factory in Woking being primed for paint and had it explained one pair was being painted to match chap's car.
"Would you do a pair in Rosso Corsa if someone wanted?" I asked the good Dr Zucker.
To which he replied that business was business, but such a job would of course command an extra-hefty premium...
Summat like that - depended on whether you wanted them in standard colours or a custom job.
Saw several pairs at the factory in Woking being primed for paint and had it explained one pair was being painted to match chap's car.
"Would you do a pair in Rosso Corsa if someone wanted?" I asked the good Dr Zucker.
To which he replied that business was business, but such a job would of course command an extra-hefty premium...
John Duncan
Well-known member
chebby
Well-known member
If they can't be bi-wired then they can't.
You should not care.
You can get some really big, thick, and heavy, non bi-wire (mono-wire?) cables to compensate. Preferably ones that take three people to bend them and need miniature pylons (spiked of course) to raise them above the toxic effects of being too close to the floor.
This does not look silly if you arrange some Lego power stations and papier mache hills around the listening-room and expain to visitors you are a topographical planner for the National Grid. (Otherwise it might all look a bit stupid!)
Ensure you get them de-gaussed and burnt-in first. (HM Dockyard at Faslane has a facility for this). Check that the musical signal used for the burning-in is analogue (or at the very least 24bit and 192khz) and matches your usual tastes. Classical music through cables burnt-in with Rock will sound dire.
Obviously you can only get about an eighth of an inch diameter of the stuff in a banana plug or spade terminal and the weight and tension of the cable will probably pull the backs off the speakers in due course, and the effect of the eddy currents on spiders - that get too close - will mutate them into FREAKs and yes, the speaker's internal wiring is somewhere between bell-wire and 42 strand with unsoldered tags, but it will sound great for the 30 seconds you get to listen before Special Branch (anti-terrorist unit) smash the door in because your cables used a fifth of the worlds supply of Lithium-6-Deuteride in their construction!
You should not care.
You can get some really big, thick, and heavy, non bi-wire (mono-wire?) cables to compensate. Preferably ones that take three people to bend them and need miniature pylons (spiked of course) to raise them above the toxic effects of being too close to the floor.
This does not look silly if you arrange some Lego power stations and papier mache hills around the listening-room and expain to visitors you are a topographical planner for the National Grid. (Otherwise it might all look a bit stupid!)
Ensure you get them de-gaussed and burnt-in first. (HM Dockyard at Faslane has a facility for this). Check that the musical signal used for the burning-in is analogue (or at the very least 24bit and 192khz) and matches your usual tastes. Classical music through cables burnt-in with Rock will sound dire.
Obviously you can only get about an eighth of an inch diameter of the stuff in a banana plug or spade terminal and the weight and tension of the cable will probably pull the backs off the speakers in due course, and the effect of the eddy currents on spiders - that get too close - will mutate them into FREAKs and yes, the speaker's internal wiring is somewhere between bell-wire and 42 strand with unsoldered tags, but it will sound great for the 30 seconds you get to listen before Special Branch (anti-terrorist unit) smash the door in because your cables used a fifth of the worlds supply of Lithium-6-Deuteride in their construction!
John Duncan
Well-known member
chebby:
If they can't be bi-wired then they can't.
You should not care.
You can get some really big, thick, and heavy, non bi-wire (mono-wire?) cables to compensate. Preferably ones that take three people to bend them and need miniature pylons (spiked of course) to raise them above the toxic effects of being too close to the floor.
This does not look silly if you arrange some Lego power stations and papier mache hills around the listening-room and expain to visitors you are a topographical planner for the National Grid. (Otherwise it might all look a bit stupid!)
Ensure you get them de-gaussed and burnt-in first. (HM Dockyard at Faslane has a facility for this). Check that the musical signal used for the burning-in is analogue (or at the very least 24bit and 192khz) and matches your usual tastes. Classical music through cables burnt-in with Rock will sound dire.
Obviously you can only get about an eighth of an inch diameter of the stuff in a banana plug or spade terminal and the weight and tension of the cable will probably pull the backs off the speakers in due course, and the effect of the eddy currents on spiders - that get too close - will mutate them into FREAKs and yes, the speaker's internal wiring is somewhere between bell-wire and 42 strand with unsoldered tags, but it will sound great for the 30 seconds you get to listen before Special Branch (anti-terrorist unit) smash the door in because your cables used a fifth of the worlds supply of Lithium-6-Deuteride in their construction!
Either that or get QED Revelation, which doesn't come in biwire. And is quite bendy.
If they can't be bi-wired then they can't.
You should not care.
You can get some really big, thick, and heavy, non bi-wire (mono-wire?) cables to compensate. Preferably ones that take three people to bend them and need miniature pylons (spiked of course) to raise them above the toxic effects of being too close to the floor.
This does not look silly if you arrange some Lego power stations and papier mache hills around the listening-room and expain to visitors you are a topographical planner for the National Grid. (Otherwise it might all look a bit stupid!)
Ensure you get them de-gaussed and burnt-in first. (HM Dockyard at Faslane has a facility for this). Check that the musical signal used for the burning-in is analogue (or at the very least 24bit and 192khz) and matches your usual tastes. Classical music through cables burnt-in with Rock will sound dire.
Obviously you can only get about an eighth of an inch diameter of the stuff in a banana plug or spade terminal and the weight and tension of the cable will probably pull the backs off the speakers in due course, and the effect of the eddy currents on spiders - that get too close - will mutate them into FREAKs and yes, the speaker's internal wiring is somewhere between bell-wire and 42 strand with unsoldered tags, but it will sound great for the 30 seconds you get to listen before Special Branch (anti-terrorist unit) smash the door in because your cables used a fifth of the worlds supply of Lithium-6-Deuteride in their construction!
Either that or get QED Revelation, which doesn't come in biwire. And is quite bendy.
AEJim
Well-known member
Actually I've found that market demands, mainly directed by the press (and probably cable manufacturers too!) have been the main reason for making bi-wire the norm nowadays.
Personally I'd rather make single-wire speakers, every engineer I know would rather make single-wire speakers - when you go to the shops with a single-wire speaker they often use it as a reason not to like a speaker - "ooh, single-wire mate, all the competition use bi-wire, our customers won't like it...". In reality unless you are using some awful components you can always make a single-wire speaker work better than bi-wire purely due to the fact you can make the crossover simpler and with fewer components.
There is always an argument for bi-amping, but then this can be done left/right for single-wire speaker designs rather than top/bottom so you still get the power and low crosstalk benefits.
Needless to say when we made our latest range our UK Sales Manager at the time insisted that at the price-point they HAVE to be bi-wire so they are... I don't think any new future models while I am here will be
Oddly it doesn't seem to affect the high-end products so much, people I guess presume that the crossovers are higher grade or something, on the same note the manufacturers who've never offered it don't seem to be affected either (Dynaudio spring to mind). ÿ
ÿ
I'm not saying bi-wire can never offer benefits, just that if the crossover is designed well you certainly shouldn't need to do it, and if you didn't have to offer it as a manufacturer you'd probably be able to design the crossover better in the first place!
ÿ
Personally I'd rather make single-wire speakers, every engineer I know would rather make single-wire speakers - when you go to the shops with a single-wire speaker they often use it as a reason not to like a speaker - "ooh, single-wire mate, all the competition use bi-wire, our customers won't like it...". In reality unless you are using some awful components you can always make a single-wire speaker work better than bi-wire purely due to the fact you can make the crossover simpler and with fewer components.
There is always an argument for bi-amping, but then this can be done left/right for single-wire speaker designs rather than top/bottom so you still get the power and low crosstalk benefits.
Needless to say when we made our latest range our UK Sales Manager at the time insisted that at the price-point they HAVE to be bi-wire so they are... I don't think any new future models while I am here will be
Oddly it doesn't seem to affect the high-end products so much, people I guess presume that the crossovers are higher grade or something, on the same note the manufacturers who've never offered it don't seem to be affected either (Dynaudio spring to mind). ÿ
ÿ
I'm not saying bi-wire can never offer benefits, just that if the crossover is designed well you certainly shouldn't need to do it, and if you didn't have to offer it as a manufacturer you'd probably be able to design the crossover better in the first place!
ÿ
AEJim
Well-known member
Eddie Pound:
James,
What do you mean by left/right bi-amping?
Monoblocs?
ÿ
Aye, pre and two powers, I explained it all more thoroughly in another thread (well, I found detailed info someone else had written somewhere on the interweb and I copy/pasted it...)
I used to use an Audiolab set up like that with P's/PX's or whatever they called them and it worked pretty well!
ÿ
James,
What do you mean by left/right bi-amping?
Monoblocs?
ÿ
Aye, pre and two powers, I explained it all more thoroughly in another thread (well, I found detailed info someone else had written somewhere on the interweb and I copy/pasted it...
)I used to use an Audiolab set up like that with P's/PX's or whatever they called them and it worked pretty well!
ÿ
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