gel said:
it is. i cant fit a 65 inch in my area even if i wanted to. wouldnt have room for speakers next to it if so. 6ft from 55" is good enough. although if it would be a hdr oled i would wait for them to go brighter. 550 nits for a flagship oled is less even than my samsung 8500.
Cheers. Whats all this about 12 bit dolby vision though? Dont we have to wait until next year for that?nugget2014 said:
bigboss
Moderator
Yep. I have got my 4k hdmi cables though for the Toshiba HD DVD player, I will swap them with my Samsung Blu-ray player.bigboss said:gel said:
Contrasts very well with your thoughts last week.
Son_of_SJ
Well-known member
nugget2014 said:
Why would you want them to be brighter? It's all about dynamic range, the difference between the darkest parts and the brightest parts of the same image, not about how bright the brightest parts are. That's why the new Ultra Premium 4K standards has two brightness ranges, one for LCD and and one for OLED, and the OLED standard is 540 nits brightness and 0.0005 nits black level, so 550 nits brightness for a flagship OLED is bright enough.
bigboss
Moderator
bigboss
Moderator
From HDTV regarding LG 4K OLED HDR:
According to the company, its current iteration of OLED televisions (we took that to mean the 55EF950V and 65EF950V, and maybe some EG960V) can achieve a greater dynamic range than LED LCDs due to OLED’s near-zero black level, even if peak brightness is capped in the region of 400 nits. Using the aperture range on cameras as an analogy (which is ingenious), LG OLEDs can deliver around 20 f-stops, whereas LCD-based TVs are limited to 12 f-stops, although both technologies still have to employ some sort of adaptive tone mapping to preserve the content creators’ artistic intent.
Furthermore, LG correctly pointed out that LCDs cannot reach high luminance levels of 700 to 1000 nits without also washing out the blacks, thus negating any sizeable gain in intraframe contrast. The highest number of local dimming zones on an HDR-capable LED LCD TV is 240 at this time of publication; compare this against a 4K OLED TV’s 8,294,400 pixels (3840×2160) which can be switched on and off independently from each other thanks to the self-emissive nature of the technology, and you can see why videophiles treat OLED as the holy grail.
According to the company, its current iteration of OLED televisions (we took that to mean the 55EF950V and 65EF950V, and maybe some EG960V) can achieve a greater dynamic range than LED LCDs due to OLED’s near-zero black level, even if peak brightness is capped in the region of 400 nits. Using the aperture range on cameras as an analogy (which is ingenious), LG OLEDs can deliver around 20 f-stops, whereas LCD-based TVs are limited to 12 f-stops, although both technologies still have to employ some sort of adaptive tone mapping to preserve the content creators’ artistic intent.
Furthermore, LG correctly pointed out that LCDs cannot reach high luminance levels of 700 to 1000 nits without also washing out the blacks, thus negating any sizeable gain in intraframe contrast. The highest number of local dimming zones on an HDR-capable LED LCD TV is 240 at this time of publication; compare this against a 4K OLED TV’s 8,294,400 pixels (3840×2160) which can be switched on and off independently from each other thanks to the self-emissive nature of the technology, and you can see why videophiles treat OLED as the holy grail.
Paul.
Well-known member
I don't disagree with the sentiment, but I think the fstop analogy is pretty weak. One stop is a doubling of light, doubling a very low amount of light has a low perceived difference whereas doubling a very bright number has a high perceived brightness. Going from 400 nits to 800 nits gives a very high perceived difference but technically only gives one stop of dynamic range. Conversely, going from 0.1 to 0.05 gives a very low perceived difference but the same one stop of dynamic range.
bigboss
Moderator
Sure, the main point is that with increase in peak brightness of LED LCD TV, the ability to produce true blacks also goes down, thereby reducing the dynamic range. This is not the case with OLED, where the ability to produce true blacks isn't affected by peak brightness.
Paul.
Well-known member
True but the brighter picture will give a greater perceived dynamic range than the OLED will. the thought of directors being able to capture better highlight detail excites me far more than 0 blacks, it's highlight detail that is the crux of what HDR content is about. Highlight detail is where current production is weak. The OLED can't magically display this highlight detail just because it has better on paper dynamic range, not without doing some kind of exposure shift.
To me HDR hasn't arrived yet, we have two compromised solutions.
To me HDR hasn't arrived yet, we have two compromised solutions.
bigboss
Moderator
It depends. For me, current technology is already very bright. What distracts me is washed out blacks. It's the deep blacks that gives more punch to the picture, hence the craze for deeper blacks amongst TV manufacturers.
bigboss
Moderator
The perception of brightness is mainly due to surrounding blacks, not the brightness of brights. Compare a 1300 lumen JVC projector to a 4000 lumen Epson in a cinema room, & you'll know what I mean.
Son_of_SJ said:
blacks of led seem good enough for me as it is. after watching content in hdr (which i doubt you have) makes you wish you had more peak brightness for a more realistic picture (when used in the right way) 50 less nits but "perfect" blacks would be a compromise for me at the moment. i haven't seen an oled tv in person but i cant even tell any difference between the blacks on my oled phone screen and my led tv.
bigboss
Moderator
It's impossible to compare a 5.5 inch phone screen with a 55 inch TV. Besides, it'll be interesting to see how blacks are affected when peak brightness is increased in an LED LCD TV.
As I mentioned before, if the blacks are deeper, perceived brightness is increased.
As I mentioned before, if the blacks are deeper, perceived brightness is increased.
Son_of_SJ
Well-known member
I should have said in my post #8 above, the the new Premium standard requires the very bright level and the very dark level to be measured in the same picture frame. You can't measure a fully bright frame and then go to a fully black one, both bright and dark must be present in the same frame, which is where OLED will have more dynamic range than LED-lit LCD televisions.
Either way by the time oled prices are more realistic for people in a couple years by then they may have found a way for higher brightness somehow. Maybe not 1000 nits but close
bigboss
Moderator
2016 is a year of consolidation. The industry specs that are supposed to be the future (but for how long is anyone's guess) have finally been nailed down, and manufacturers are waking up to the reality that the rush to replace old CRT, and even 720p / 1080i, DLP and other "not really full HD" sets is over. Sales from now on will drop back close to those in the CRT days when people bought tellies when their old ones blew up, not because this year's model comes out with s super-dooper-brand-new on / off switch (or app).
4K is coming (Netflix already broadcasts some 4K in the US), and you can enjoy the benefits of upscaled 1080p content, either over the air (or down the wire) or from BluRay / DVD sources.
I am, however, waiting to see what happens in March or April, possibly 2017, before spending any more serious cash on televisions.
OLED? Yes, very bright, but still expensive. I wouldn't want to splash out a load of cash on a 1080p OLED knowing 4K will be here in force next year or the year after. It would be like buying a 26-inch black-and-white CRT set back in the day, just before BBC and ITV started broadcasting in colour.
4K is coming (Netflix already broadcasts some 4K in the US), and you can enjoy the benefits of upscaled 1080p content, either over the air (or down the wire) or from BluRay / DVD sources.
I am, however, waiting to see what happens in March or April, possibly 2017, before spending any more serious cash on televisions.
OLED? Yes, very bright, but still expensive. I wouldn't want to splash out a load of cash on a 1080p OLED knowing 4K will be here in force next year or the year after. It would be like buying a 26-inch black-and-white CRT set back in the day, just before BBC and ITV started broadcasting in colour.
nugget2014 said:
And of course everyone will be abuzz with the forthcoming 8k standard.
nugget2014 said:
You think they'll find that many people to buy them? ;-)
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