Which is the better at upscaling?

tommyb

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Onkyo 875 or Pioneer Kuro 428XD / 4280XD?

I know the Pioneer's I've mentioned are two different models, but I don't actually understand what the difference betweent the two are.
 
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Anonymous

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42 inch:
PDP-428XD - High End 42-inch KURO with Digital DVB-T Tuner
PDP-4280XD - 42-inch KURO with Digital DVB-T Tuner

I believe the 428XD is the better of the two.
 

FuzzyinLondon

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This questions been asked a lot recently so I'm actually going to test. I managed to sell my Onkyo 605 recently and have managed to get a 875 just over the weekend. I've only just got it set up and connected but if I get a chance to test it this week. I'm going to compare the quality of SD Sky via s-video through the receiver and via RGB Scart through the tv. I'm also going to feed dvd at 576i via HDMI to each to see which does better with that. I'll post the results later this week for anyone who's interested.
 

Sorreltiger

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Brilliant - thanks, Fuzzy, I'm really interested in the result of your test. ÿThis question HAS been asked a lot recently and there hasn't yet been a definitive answer. ÿIt could push me towards one of the few remaining 875s or I'll wait for one of the new generation from Onkyo, Denon, Pioneer and Sony.
 

matengawhat

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the only test i did was with my topfield 5810 which upscales via hdmi to 720p - the picture via the 875 is far superior to the internal chip of the 5810 - i now send the picture by 576p and then let the amp upsacle to 1080p - i guess its hard to compare when you don't know what upscaling chip is in each tv.
 

FuzzyinLondon

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FuzzyinLondon:This questions been asked a lot recently so I'm actually going to test. I managed to sell my Onkyo 605 recently and have managed to get a 875 just over the weekend. I've only just got it set up and connected but if I get a chance to test it this week. I'm going to compare the quality of SD Sky via s-video through the receiver and via RGB Scart through the tv. I'm also going to feed dvd at 576i via HDMI to each to see which does better with that. I'll post the results later this week for anyone who's interested.

Right, I finally got around to testing this over the weekend with the help of my cousin who acted as an independent pair of eyes so a big thanks to him. Sky+ was going to tv(4280XD) via a Philex Thor RGB Scart into Input 1 and to the Onkyo 875 via S-Video and out to display via HDMI into Input 3. I calibrated the inputs to D65 standard - well as close as is possible on a 4280XD(you can get closer on a 428XD if you have it ISF calibrated). One thing I found is that putting the same settings on the Onkyo's pictures as I had on the RGB input yielded different results. It must be to do with the way that the tv handles a HDMI signal so it's important to calibrate each input separately to get the best out of it (This is where having two separate HDMI outs will come in very handy on the 876).
I also tested DVD playback to compare which was best at upscaling a 576i signal from a Toshiba EP30. Everything is hooked up with 1m lengths of QED HDMI-P leads. This is a much fairer test than the Sky+ test where you could argue that the Onkyo is at a disadvantage because it's being fed via S-video.
To the results. With Sky+, the Pioneer wins but only just and it was much closer than I thought it would be. The Onkyo does a great job with the S-video feed and gives a very clean picture with both 720p and 1080p. However the picture scaled via the Pio is just that bit sharper and the movement that bit more natural although blank areas of colour looked slightly fizzier than through the Onkyo. Overall, the Pio shades it. My feeling is that if the Sky+ box was capable of outputting component, it would be much harder to call.
With DVD, it was even closer. Pioneer owners have always recommended to me that I should leave my player set to 576i for best results. However, for convenience more than anything, I've always had my EP30 set to 1080p to avoid having to switch the resolutions for different types of discs. I've been so impressed with the picture from the Toshiba that I've never felt the need to mess around with it. When testing the Onkyo against the Pio, I used the Toshiba as a reference point. There was barely anything between the three but if pushed, I would say that it was a tie between the Onkyo and the Toshiba with Pio just behind. We did a few test scenes and it was hard to see any difference at all. It was only when we went to the main battle scene from Return Of The King that we thought that the Onkyo gave a slightly sharper punchier picture, on par with the Tosh. If anything, it proves what a good machine the Toshiba is (anyone who managed to snap one up when they were £60 got an absolute bargain).
So it's a bit of a mixed bag as far as the results go. Having now tested it, I'm very impressed with the de-interlacing and scaling abilities of the 875 and, most importantly for me, I don't regret buying it. I probably won't be utilizing its scaling abilities very much but I feel good knowing that if, for any reason, I had to replace my beloved 4280, I at least have a receiver that will be able to give me the kind of picture quality I'm now used to.
 

Sorreltiger

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Many thanks, Fuzzy. ÿI must say I'm delighted with DVD upscaling on my 4280 - way better than I had dreamed of. ÿThe PQ on Sky HD is awesome. ÿBefore I decided to push the boat out and grab one of the last Kuros instead of a Panasonic, I had been planning to buy an 875. ÿIt's good to hear that they do such a brilliant job too, but you've now confirmed that I don't really need one. ÿIt's a difficult decision to choose a receiver for the best sound quality only. ÿMany would recommend the 805, I suppose,but the last few 875s seem to be cheaper. ÿYou can always turn the scaling off. ÿ Then there are the new Denons (2309, 2809) on the way. Decisions, decisions.....ÿ
 

FuzzyinLondon

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No problem, Sorreltiger. I actually quite enjoyed doing the test. It was a bit like a science experiment. I think that if you can still pick up an 875 for £600, it's a great deal. Everything about it feels much classier than the budget range and at that price, it's only £200 more than the 606. I only bought it in the end because I managed to find it in black (I had to have it in black) locally at a good price. I never would've been tempted at the old price. The new Denons do look good and Denon have a pretty rock-solid reputation for video-scaling too. Either way it's good to know, with the quality of the Pio, you won't be compromising picture quality whichever receiver you go for.
 
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Anonymous

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I was very interested in your post and have to agree with your findings. From my own tests having just added the Onk to my 4280, it seems the onk is superior in de-interlacing a non-progressive signal but the Pioneer shades on scaling abilities, presumably because the scaling is only being done once (despite the Onkyo probably being better at scaling overall).

For now I watching DVDs at 576i from player into the 875, outputting at 576p and letting the Pioneer scale to 768p.
For Sky I am using a QED Sqart direct to the TV, when I imminently get Sky HD, things will be tougher. Obviously subject to testing, the theory of it would make me think the Sky box would be on Auto, the Onkyo on 1080p and the Pio scaling down to 768p. When on SD channels, change the Onkyo to through (or connect with Sqart again).
A caveat to this however is the possibility of the new Samsung Sky HD box potentially being able to output 576i over HDMI. This could allow the Onkyo to do the deinterlacing and the Pioneer the scaling and me to be a happy man!
 
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Anonymous

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Good to see the direct tests here, and interesting....I presume with the Pioneer being a top end panel, it was more of a match, though I wonder if it would be the same with lower end LCD's...

The comparison test I would like to see, and hopefully the mag will do one day, is between the 'inbuilt' scalers in AVR's & TV's vs a separate dedicated 'outboard' scaler such as this :

newvisionpro_front.jpg
......Worth the extra cost ?
 
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Anonymous

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tommyb:
oh, ok - cool.

What makes it high end?

Are they a better scaler than the 875?

It is high-end because it has intelligent brightness control, a USB input and a subwoofer output.ÿ
 

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