Which AV Amp for MA PL100 Fronts?

[teapea]

Hey CNO

Thanks for the help,

I got it wired in last night well some of it and it sounds good so far

I need to get some new speaker cable anyway as I'm currently using QED silver anniversiry stuff and I don't think its particularly great, so will probably order some for bi amping my fronts.

One thing I am a bit confused by and can't seem to get an answer in the instructions is to do with the sub woofer.

It has two inputs one says LFE and one is phono, when connecting it to the AVR600 should I use the LFE or line inputs on my subwoofer? (PLW15) As so far i havent managed to get the sub working.

I plugged the phono cable into the LFE in on the sub and the other end into sub1 on the back of the AVR600 but nothing happened! But I havent had much time to play yet.

Cheers,

Tom

 

[CnoEvil]

Hey CNO

Thanks for the help,

I got it wired in last night well some of it and it sounds good so far

I need to get some new speaker cable anyway as I'm currently using QED silver anniversiry stuff and I don't think its particularly great, so will probably order some for bi amping my fronts.

One thing I am a bit confused by and can't seem to get an answer in the instructions is to do with the sub woofer.

It has two inputs one says LFE and one is phono, when connecting it to the AVR600 should I use the LFE or line inputs on my subwoofer? (PLW15) As so far i havent managed to get the sub working.

I plugged the phono cable into the LFE in on the sub and the other end into sub1 on the back of the AVR600 but nothing happened! But I havent had much time to play yet.

Cheers,

Tom

Hi Tom

To wire the sub for AV, connect a single phono from:

SW1 (pre amp out section of AVR600) -> LFE (low freq effects on sub)

Nb. If "Stereo Direct" is selected, the sub will not work, as all processing is by-passed .

If it is still not working, it's likely some setting in the menu (eg. select that the sub is present), or you are not playing 5.1 material.

If you want the sub to come on for 2 channel select Left/Right + Sub under "Stereo Mode". (p.E-40).

 

[teapea]

Thank you CNO, that's good, I have it all working now, and the neighbours are out today, bonus :dance:

Sounds pretty good, the sub isn't as active as I was expecting when listning to music, but its working fine and sounds good!

 

[teapea]

Is this the cable you recommend?

http://www.acton-gate-audio.co.uk/products/product_details.asp?ProductID=2482

I will probably order some if it is as I want the best cable for my front 3

 

[CnoEvil]

IMO It is better to use Stereo Direct for 2 channel which means the sub isn't working; and if it doesn't (sound better), it's worth trying to work out why, as it gives the "cleanest" signal.

You should get a more powerful sound when bi-amped with better S/C......Are your speakers on a suspended wooden floor, what speaker stands are you using and are they filled with anything?

FWIW I found this amp responds well to a decent mains cable, like the Clearer Audio Copper-Line (can be returned after a decent trial period).....especially for music.

If you haven't trawled through the article I linked to, it is worth the effort, as there are some useful tips on there. Getting this amp properly set up pays big dividends.

Keep us up to date with how things go.

Cno

 

[CnoEvil]

Is this the cable you recommend?

http://www.acton-gate-audio.co.uk/products/product_details.asp?ProductID=2482

I will probably order some if it is as I want the best cable for my front 3

Thats the stuff, though for bi-amping your front left and right, I think you could use Atlas Hyper Bi-wire with 4 plugs either end....but check this with the supplier, or Atlas themselves, as John Carrick is very knowledgeable and helpful.

 

[ric71]

What a fantastic system you have there sir. It will sound awesome. Well done!

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Tom

I'll suggest that you should also consider using standard 79 stand OFC or 500 strand OFC speaker cables as i feel these speaker cables will be more than good enough for your system. Fwiw, i only use standard 79 & 500 strand OFC speaker cables with AV amplification and speakers such as Chord Electronics DSP8000/SPM3005 > Monitor Audio's Platinum PL200AV & PL300AV :rockout:

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[teapea]

Thanks for the replies, i have been messing with the AVR600 all weekend and I am enjoying it.

I'm currently using QED silver anniversiry XT cable, which I have plenty of, and could bi amp the fronts with what I have left over.

Do you think this cable is not good enough for the system then?

Also Is it worth buying a expensive HDMI cable to connect my source to the amp.

My understanding was that it wasn't as it's a digitical source and it's always going to to 1's and 0's so it would make no difference?

Cheers,

Tom

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Tom

If you are looking at getting new speaker cables then as I said in my previous post standard 79 strand OFC and 500 strand OFC speaker cables are also worth considering. Fwiw, i feel that if these standard speaker cables are good enough for PL300AV speaker system then these standard speaker cables will also be good enough for your speakers.

Btw, you should also be able to find these standard speaker cables for little £/m. Save your time and your money.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'm currently using QED silver anniversiry XT cable, which I have plenty of

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks for the replies, i have been messing with the AVR600 all weekend and I am enjoying it.

I'm currently using QED silver anniversiry XT cable, which I have plenty of, and could bi amp the fronts with what I have left over.

Do you think this cable is not good enough for the system then?

Also Is it worth buying a expensive HDMI cable to connect my source to the amp.

My understanding was that it wasn't as it's a digitical source and it's always going to to 1's and 0's so it would make no difference?

Cheers,

Tom

Glad you are enjoying it - have you got Dolby Volume set up OK?

Since you already have enough cable to bi-amp, it makes sense to go with this initially. Just remember to:

- Set the amp to the bi-amp setting on the menu, which splits the treble and bass signals.

- Remove the relevant links on the speaker.

If after a while you want to experiment with S/Cs, I think it's worth doing, especially if you can borrow some from a dealer. FWIW I would spend the money on a returnable Copper-Line mains cable.

Regarding the HDMI cable, get something that is well made, to the correct spec/rating, by a respected company....so don't spend a fortune. If you don't need the latest spec, there are some great bargains to be had.

 

[teapea]

Hey, no I haven't really played with it very much at all to be honest I am just running it on the factory default settings,

I need to do a bit of bedtime reading of the instruction book :O

Okay thanks for the advice I will report back once it's all wired in

 

[teapea]

Hey Guys, quick update on my setup

I have bought a audiolab m dac, which I'm really happy with! And i have in my possesion 30m of;

QED Original speaker cable and 30m of this standard stuff from ebay;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190713426142&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:GB:3160

Which would be better for the fronts and which would be better for the rears?

 

[CnoEvil]

Hey Guys, quick update on my setup

I have bought a audiolab m dac, which I'm really happy with! And i have in my possesion 30m of;

QED Original speaker cable and 30m of this standard stuff from ebay;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190713426142&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:GB:3160

Which would be better for the fronts and which would be better for the rears?

If you are talking about QED 79 strand, then it's probably much of a muchness.....just make sure there is no corrosion at the connection point, if it's old.

At this stage, you are sensible just connecting everything up with simple copper wire.....there's plenty of time to experiment with better cable for the fronts at a later stage.

How are you getting on with set up, and is it all sounding OK?

 

[teapea]

yeah pretty well, I'm happy with it it souds great when listening to vocal stuff, but I find when listening to heavier stuff say metallica etc its lacking bass somehow, but maybe that's just because its stereo and the 100's are bookshelves and lack something somehow!

Yeah I didn’t want to spend a fortune when I wasn't sure on lengths etc at least i can get it right with the cheap cable

 

[CnoEvil]

yeah pretty well, I'm happy with it it souds great when listening to vocal stuff, but I find when listening to heavier stuff say metallica etc its lacking bass somehow, but maybe that's just because its stereo and the 100's are bookshelves and lack something somehow!

Yeah I didn’t want to spend a fortune when I wasn't sure on lengths etc at least i can get it right with the cheap cable

IMO The one thing the AVR600 is not short of, is bass.....especially when bi-amped (using Stereo Direct).

Possible explanations:

- It's in the mastering.

- Whether your speakers are on a suspended wooden floor without isolation.

- The type/quality/stability of the speaker stands, and whether they are mass loaded.

- Room acoustics.

 

[teapea]

yeah, I will keep playing with it all and see how it goes

 

[teapea]

Hey, just wanted to offer a quick update on this.

I have everything in now and it looks and sounds fantasic!

I was incredibly lucky with the system I have been able to put together, and I don't think I would have been able to do it all without some of the help I have received here so thanks

I will detail what I have bought and the costs below;

In the end I have;

Arcam AVR600 - ebay - £1750 - this was a great buy and immaculate, so far no problems really

Monitor Audio PL200 - £2600 these arrived brand new via ebay from someone who was supposed to take them abroad but couldn’t for whatever reason, so came in boxes never been opened they sound in better than my PL100's without a doubt.

Monitor Audio PLC350 - again ebay £1250, not in perfect condition, small scuff, but sounds fine,

Monitor Audio PLW15 - ebay again, £1550 - I got this 3 months old and its immaculte bought from a man who bought it and his wife found out how much he paid (poor ****** I felt guilty picking it up)

Monitor Audio Apex A10 rears - £350 - Ebay - Nicely wall mounted

PL100's are now for sale on ebay after all that.

Overall comments are it sounds fanstastic, I just wish I had the room size, and detached house to make the most of it! But hopefully in the not too distant future. If I were doing it again I wouldn’t buy the Sub as it gets little use in my small semi detached house.

I'm not 100% content with the sound of two channel, I'm using the arcam songbook app on my ipad to stream music to the player from FLAC files, but I'm not sure something isn't quite right, so can't decide whether I might be better buying a decent dedicated music streamer with a good built in DAC like a Naim NDX, but this might be overkill for this amplifier.

I will get some pictures up shortly, once I sort out my messy wires! Thanks again for all the help!

 

[CnoEvil]

Glad you are enjoying it. IMO As I touched on earlier, to get the most out of it, you need to:

- Bi-amp fronts (if not already doing do)
- Try a decent mains cable
- Try some good speaker cable for front speakers.

As for a Streamer, my choice, as everyone knows, is a Linn DS,

 

[teapea]

Hey CNO,

Thanks for your response,

A decent mains cable? Do you mean the kettle lead? Is it going to make a difference when plugged into a 4 way socket adapter?

Already bi amped my fronts, they sound good, but just using standard copper cable at the min.

The Linn DS I haven't looked at before, there's various ranges also, my main concern would be a streamer that has a decent in built DAC as this is the most important thing im guessing when looking at these things, the other options is to use my mac mini with an external DAC.

I already tried this and bought an audiolab M DAC But I was sure the sound was better using the arcams built in streamer and thus its internal DAC.

So I played both to various people not telling them which was which and they all said the Arcam's DAC sounded better! Which was a great surprise to me. Now I don't know if it was the fact it was the computer or the DAC that was at fault but logical would dictate the DAC.

 

[CnoEvil]

Hey CNO,

Thanks for your response, A decent mains cable? Do you mean the kettle lead? Is it going to make a difference when plugged into a 4 way socket adapter?

Already bi amped my fronts, they sound good, but just using standard copper cable at the min.

The Linn DS I haven't looked at before, there's various ranges also, my main concern would be a streamer that has a decent in built DAC as this is the most important thing im guessing when looking at these things, the other options is to use my mac mini with an external DAC.

I already tried this and bought an audiolab M DAC But I was sure the sound was better using the arcams built in streamer and thus its internal DAC.

So I played both to various people not telling them which was which and they all said the Arcam's DAC sounded better! Which was a great surprise to me. Now I don't know if it was the fact it was the computer or the DAC that was at fault but logical would dictate the DAC.

Hi TP

There are two opposing schools of thought about cables on here, which is why I would suggest trying some for yourself, with the ability to return if unsuitable. The reason I brought it up, is I found it made a very worthwhile difference.

This is something to do when your system has settled down, but imo, you will (at some point) need to pay attention to cabling, to get the most out of it. I was very impressed with Vertere, which I described on an earlier thread ("An evening with Touraj Moghaddam")

For a mains lead, I'm talking about those from the likes of Atlas, Clearer Audio or Audioquest.
Either borrow something from a local dealer, or us a company that will send you one, and give a decent trial period (Clearer Audio and Russ Andrews).
Have a word with Darren from Clearer Audio and try the Copper-Line or Silver-Line mains cables:
http://www.cleareraudio.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1&zenid=da6458bc9761e2ef523546a184f15889

If your wallet needs to recover from its battering, stay with your simple copper S/Cs. If at a later date you want to see the difference better cables can make (i/c or s/c), try experimenting with Atlas, Vertere and Telurium Q

I would also recommend you upgrade the adapter as well as imo, it will be taking it's toll...again something worth asking Darren about. If you can return it, there is no harm trying.

With regard to the Linn DS, all I can tell you is that my Majik DS made the Dac in my Arcam DV 79 sound broken.
On its own, a Dac chip is usually a fairly cheap item, but its what you do with it that can get expensive. Linn apply their own processing, which makes it sound exceptionally musical.....even the humble Sneaky sounds as good as anything in its price range (if not better). Give one a listen, as I know just how well Arcam + Linn sound together.

FWIW. My advice is to take your time and don't do too much at once, as this can cause brain freeze...where you get so muddled that your not sure what your hearing, or what has caused the improvement.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Without this turning into a cable thread, with your set up, you should at least try decent cables. As confident as some are they won't make any difference, I am that Tellurium Q Black will make a difference. I used them for a while on my front two before needing very long lengths and having to change tact. I was astonished by the level of sound they produced.

 

[teapea]

thanks for the response, I would like some better cables, but I don't intend to stay in the house i'm in for very long, so i dont want to spend a fortune on cables only to move in a year and them be too short. That's my thoughts anyway.

 

[teapea]

Thanks CNO, I do like Linn stuff, I started my hi fi journey on a linn system, and really loved it!

Always wanted some naim stuff though, just love the look of it, but never quite got round to it.

Tom