Right Thought i would create a new thread for this. Just to update anybody who did not see the previous post. I am considering an upgrade of my Arcam A80 as i find the sound a bit too laid back for me. My music taste is fairly broad ranging from the likes of Bob Dylan to Rage Against The Machine. I do like the detail my Arcam gives me, and would not really like to lose too much of that, but i would like a bit more "attack" to the sound. I am considering auditioning the following units: 1) Naim Nait 5i 2) Roksan Kandy L3 3) Primare I21 4) Cyrus 8vs2. Anyone any thoughts on these particular units, or any other suggestions, bearing in mind my considerations: 1) Current issues with relaxed A80 sound 2) Synergy with my other equipment 3) Not wanting to lose too much clarity. Many thanks Tom
Which Amp? Budget £750
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My set-up, apart from the speakers is very similar. I've always wanted a Roskan Kandy; but I've never had the money! Thus, if I was you, that is what I would buy. It should give more attack than the Arcam, but it will keep the level of detail according to reviews. Very able amp apparently.
I'm in a similar position to you, between 750 and 1k. I've decided that I'm going to trawl around some small, independent hifi shops to see what they have to offer. One I've found recently is the Unison Research Unico P. It has a valve preamp and solid state power amp stage. It sounds very nice but perhaps a little laid back.
You might be able to find a Roksan Caspian somewhere for that price. That's a stunner of an amp and can be upgraded by the power amp later. The Creek Destiny is good if you're analytical about your sound. My money, at the moment, is on either the Caspian M or the Primare.
This might not apply to you, but I'm trying to do this upgrade with my next speaker upgrade in mind. The MAs are nice but I would like something a bit less bright like Dynaudio Focus 110s. Thus, try some other speakers with the amps you audition to ensure a good upgrade path. I'll be off to hear my friends' Rega floorstanders soon...I have a suspicion they're going to work for me...
One other option that I'm toying with is to buy second hand Quad kit. Not sure what, maybe a 405/45 combo and then get them serviced by Quad. My mother has a pair and I'll love it...wonder whether she'll notice if I swap it out for my Rotel RA03 >
You might be able to find a Roksan Caspian somewhere for that price. That's a stunner of an amp and can be upgraded by the power amp later. The Creek Destiny is good if you're analytical about your sound. My money, at the moment, is on either the Caspian M or the Primare.
This might not apply to you, but I'm trying to do this upgrade with my next speaker upgrade in mind. The MAs are nice but I would like something a bit less bright like Dynaudio Focus 110s. Thus, try some other speakers with the amps you audition to ensure a good upgrade path. I'll be off to hear my friends' Rega floorstanders soon...I have a suspicion they're going to work for me...
One other option that I'm toying with is to buy second hand Quad kit. Not sure what, maybe a 405/45 combo and then get them serviced by Quad. My mother has a pair and I'll love it...wonder whether she'll notice if I swap it out for my Rotel RA03 >
Having auditioned the M/A RS6 speakers this weekend with the Cyrus 6v2 and 8v2 amps and the Primare amp/CD combo, i'd stump for either of them.
They were both fantastic, fast punchy bass, well timed midrange and crisp treble. The Primare for me was a bit more forward than the Cyrus.
If you wanted to save money for an upgrade further down the line i'd go for the Cyrus6v2 amp. Plenty of power to drive the Rega's and upgradable too!
A couple of options on Ebay:
Cyrus: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180207219032&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008
Musical Fidelity: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160200079265&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=006
They were both fantastic, fast punchy bass, well timed midrange and crisp treble. The Primare for me was a bit more forward than the Cyrus.
If you wanted to save money for an upgrade further down the line i'd go for the Cyrus6v2 amp. Plenty of power to drive the Rega's and upgradable too!
A couple of options on Ebay:
Cyrus: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180207219032&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008
Musical Fidelity: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160200079265&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=006
...just as a slight aside, it surprised me, perhaps worried me is a better expression, how light in weight the Cyrus 6 is. I know weight isn't necessarily an indicator of quality, but for an amp it's usually related to the size of the power supply. The Cyrus 8 weighed more but was still quite light. Do Cyrus use a different approach than toroidal PSUs? I don't know of any competitive amps that weigh as little.
Sell the A80 and put the money towards a second hand A85 and P85 and biamp. Much cleaner, more detail and more thrust!
Hi Tom
The naim nait 5i Has a lot of punch and very lively toe tapping sound. Sell the arcam and put the money towards the naim pre and power amp as that is a lot better than the 5i. I like listening to a lot of rock music and metal and down the scale to miles davis. The cyrus did'nt do it for me like naim did. The best advice is to go and listen to them through you speakers in a demo room.
cheers
mike
The naim nait 5i Has a lot of punch and very lively toe tapping sound. Sell the arcam and put the money towards the naim pre and power amp as that is a lot better than the 5i. I like listening to a lot of rock music and metal and down the scale to miles davis. The cyrus did'nt do it for me like naim did. The best advice is to go and listen to them through you speakers in a demo room.
cheers
mike
Tom, I have the Roksan L3 amp and the Roksan MkIII CDP. I posted a few weeks ago that I didn't audition these before I bought them (stupid me I know). After a few weeks running them in I'm still not happy with the sound, although my speakers are crud - Kef Q1s.
I'm auditioning new speakers this weekend -- and I'm sure new speakers will shed light on why the Kandy got rave reviews but which at present I am failing to comprehend.
I'm auditioning new speakers this weekend -- and I'm sure new speakers will shed light on why the Kandy got rave reviews but which at present I am failing to comprehend.
[quote user="simonkee"]Tom, I have the Roksan L3 amp and the Roksan MkIII CDP. I posted a few weeks ago that I didn't audition these before I bought them (stupid me I know). After a few weeks running them in I'm still not happy with the sound, although my speakers are crud - Kef Q1s.
I'm auditioning new speakers this weekend -- and I'm sure new speakers will shed light on why the Kandy got rave reviews but which at present I am failing to comprehend.[/quote]
Cheers Simonkee
I have spoken to a couple of dealers today, both of whom have told me to go for the Naim or Cyrus rather than the Roksan. Whether this has anything to do with the fact that they are more expensive, i'm not sure. I have now been offered an Arcam FMJ32 brand new at a very good price (i.e) within budget so i may test this as well. Not sure if it will have the same Arcam sound though so i will have to wait and see. Good luck with your speaker auditions. Hope you get the sound you are after.
I'm auditioning new speakers this weekend -- and I'm sure new speakers will shed light on why the Kandy got rave reviews but which at present I am failing to comprehend.[/quote]
Cheers Simonkee
I have spoken to a couple of dealers today, both of whom have told me to go for the Naim or Cyrus rather than the Roksan. Whether this has anything to do with the fact that they are more expensive, i'm not sure. I have now been offered an Arcam FMJ32 brand new at a very good price (i.e) within budget so i may test this as well. Not sure if it will have the same Arcam sound though so i will have to wait and see. Good luck with your speaker auditions. Hope you get the sound you are after.
I might have posted about my findings in the past, so won't recover ground here, but briefly : had a Cambridge Audio 840A which had a problem so got a full refund. Demo'd some stuff ending in a home trial of the Primare I21 (dismissing Arcam, Rotel, Cyrus). IMO the I21 didn't touch the CA overall (had a lovely top end, but lacking weight and had the 'turn it down' factor (might have been pairing with my RS6's)), so ended up with another 840A and very, very happy with it indeed! I have found most dealers snear at CA gear, as do lots of people, but the 840A butters my muffin and thats what counts for me! Good luck though and listen at home if poss before buying!
[quote user="bloney"]IMO the I21 didn't touch the CA overall (had a lovely top end, but lacking weight and had the 'turn it down' factor (might have been pairing with my RS6's)), [/quote]
I'd be inclined to say that you'd love the next Primare up in the range. More power and loads more clout! loads more cash at £1500 too...
I'd be inclined to say that you'd love the next Primare up in the range. More power and loads more clout! loads more cash at £1500 too...
[quote user="igglebert"][quote user="bloney"]IMO the I21 didn't touch the CA overall (had a lovely top end, but lacking weight and had the 'turn it down' factor (might have been pairing with my RS6's)), [/quote]
I'd be inclined to say that you'd love the next Primare up in the range. More power and loads more clout! loads more cash at £1500 too...[/quote]
Yeah - thats exactly what I thought! 7oaks also suggested the FMJ Arcams might be worth a listen (after not liking the A... series).
I'd be inclined to say that you'd love the next Primare up in the range. More power and loads more clout! loads more cash at £1500 too...[/quote]
Yeah - thats exactly what I thought! 7oaks also suggested the FMJ Arcams might be worth a listen (after not liking the A... series).
matthewpiano
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2007
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Naim Nait 5i for me. I auditioned this extensively but it was out of my budget in the end. Its a stunning amp. Very musical with loads of attack and striking a wonderful balance between warmth and brightness. Great value for money in terms of its sound and build quality.
Re-kindling this topic a bit
I recently heard the Arcam FMJ32 amp, the Arcam A80 and A90 amps and thought they were bloody awful
The A80 and A90 amps were gutless. Yes, they had power but they had no kick with the bass at all and they really let me down.
The FMJ was good but again, there was still something missing and i couldnt quite figure out what. The bass was ok, a little less than i expected but felt that the treble was harsh.
I may be old skool with having the Arcam Alpha 9 amps but they still give out a better, more smooth but punchy sound compered to the A80/90 amps and the FMJ.
If i was looking again for that 'Arcam' sound, i'd go on Ebay and get the Arcam Alpha 10 integrated amp and partner it with the Alpha 10P power amp. Saves you money but by god you'll have a cracking set-up with plenty of power and oomph but control and well timed midrange/treble.
I recently heard the Arcam FMJ32 amp, the Arcam A80 and A90 amps and thought they were bloody awful
The A80 and A90 amps were gutless. Yes, they had power but they had no kick with the bass at all and they really let me down.
The FMJ was good but again, there was still something missing and i couldnt quite figure out what. The bass was ok, a little less than i expected but felt that the treble was harsh.
I may be old skool with having the Arcam Alpha 9 amps but they still give out a better, more smooth but punchy sound compered to the A80/90 amps and the FMJ.
If i was looking again for that 'Arcam' sound, i'd go on Ebay and get the Arcam Alpha 10 integrated amp and partner it with the Alpha 10P power amp. Saves you money but by god you'll have a cracking set-up with plenty of power and oomph but control and well timed midrange/treble.
Well i have now had 2 days with the Cyrus 8vs2 as a home trial. Initially i was dissapointed, but it got better after a couple of hours... A LOT better. What a great amp, fast, punchy, dynamic. Pretty much exactly what i am looking for. i didn't find the sound too harsh or forward at all. Maybe it is a good match with my "warm" CD73, but i really liked it. Played a good range of music from Dylan to Foo Fighters etc. I'm testing the Nait 5i next. All i can say is that it is going to have to be something special to beat the Cyrus.
[quote user="d_a_n1979"]I think the Cyrus will win hands down![/quote]
I wouldn't be so certain about that...
I wouldn't be so certain about that...
[quote user="d_a_n1979"]If i was looking again for that 'Arcam' sound, i'd go on Ebay and get the Arcam Alpha 10 integrated amp and partner it with the Alpha 10P power amp. Saves you money but by god you'll have a cracking set-up with plenty of power and oomph but control and well timed midrange/treble.[/quote]
I have owned the Arcam Alpha 10 and 10P combo and i really enjoyed it. Dynamic with lots of drive but quite smooth sounding and a little lean in some areas. I have also had the Arcam 9 and 9P which I preferred in some ways.
The Nait 5i is cracking little amp and has the distintive naim sound - very rhythmic, lots of drive, punchy, dynamic and really gets your toes tapping. If you want more "attack" then the 5i should deliver. Also bear in mind that the 5i (italic) has recently been significantly upgraded so you can expect even better performance. I have not heard it yet so cannot comment on its performance in comparison to its predecessor but have heard it is rather good.
The Cyrus 8 vs2 is really nice and it might be worth auditioning with a PSX-R as well as this may help with your decision. The PSX-R significantly boosts performance and it is a nice upgrade for later on.
I have owned the Arcam Alpha 10 and 10P combo and i really enjoyed it. Dynamic with lots of drive but quite smooth sounding and a little lean in some areas. I have also had the Arcam 9 and 9P which I preferred in some ways.
The Nait 5i is cracking little amp and has the distintive naim sound - very rhythmic, lots of drive, punchy, dynamic and really gets your toes tapping. If you want more "attack" then the 5i should deliver. Also bear in mind that the 5i (italic) has recently been significantly upgraded so you can expect even better performance. I have not heard it yet so cannot comment on its performance in comparison to its predecessor but have heard it is rather good.
The Cyrus 8 vs2 is really nice and it might be worth auditioning with a PSX-R as well as this may help with your decision. The PSX-R significantly boosts performance and it is a nice upgrade for later on.
Hi chiefbrody
I can't comment on the nait (just been upgraded to i version) but I just heard the cyrus 8vs2 with matching cyrus player (8) through your rega's R3. Stunning! Made the Rega mira/Saturn sound boring. The only thing you have to look out for with the cyrus amp is a slightly loose bass. Other than that its superbly detailed, musical and dynamic with great control (mild bass issue aside). Your rega R3's are well controlled lower down so this is not an issue. Further more, you have an upgrade path with cyrus. Add a psx at a further date or add another poweramp etc. So its rather more 'future proof' then one or two of your other choices but you may just like it 'as it is'. I did. With regards to the candy, again, I have'nt heard it or its matching Cd player but I've heard a few times now that people are flogging them to change to creek evo's for the increased detail they (apparently) offer. Go and listen to all of them if you can and factor in what you may change in the future.
I can't comment on the nait (just been upgraded to i version) but I just heard the cyrus 8vs2 with matching cyrus player (8) through your rega's R3. Stunning! Made the Rega mira/Saturn sound boring. The only thing you have to look out for with the cyrus amp is a slightly loose bass. Other than that its superbly detailed, musical and dynamic with great control (mild bass issue aside). Your rega R3's are well controlled lower down so this is not an issue. Further more, you have an upgrade path with cyrus. Add a psx at a further date or add another poweramp etc. So its rather more 'future proof' then one or two of your other choices but you may just like it 'as it is'. I did. With regards to the candy, again, I have'nt heard it or its matching Cd player but I've heard a few times now that people are flogging them to change to creek evo's for the increased detail they (apparently) offer. Go and listen to all of them if you can and factor in what you may change in the future.
[quote user="drummerman"]
Hi chiefbrody
I can't comment on the nait (just been upgraded to i version) but I just heard the cyrus 8vs2 with matching cyrus player (8) through your rega's R3. Stunning! Made the Rega mira/Saturn sound boring. The only thing you have to look out for with the cyrus amp is a slightly loose bass. Other than that its superbly detailed, musical and dynamic with great control (mild bass issue aside). Your rega R3's are well controlled lower down so this is not an issue. Further more, you have an upgrade path with cyrus. Add a psx at a further date or add another poweramp etc. So its rather more 'future proof' then one or two of your other choices but you may just like it 'as it is'. I did. With regards to the candy, again, I have'nt heard it or its matching Cd player but I've heard a few times now that people are flogging them to change to creek evo's for the increased detail they (apparently) offer. Go and listen to all of them if you can and factor in what you may change in the future.
[/quote]
Drummerman
Cheers for that. I should be getting the Nait 5i in the next couple of days, not sure if the new one is any different other than a MP3 socket on the front though. Like i said, i really liked the Cyrus 8vs2 and the upgrade options at a later date. Will just have to wait and see. Due to discounts, the price i can get for each of them is pretty similar so i wuld not be saving a great deal by getting the Naim. This probably makes the Cyrus better value, not sure.
Hi chiefbrody
I can't comment on the nait (just been upgraded to i version) but I just heard the cyrus 8vs2 with matching cyrus player (8) through your rega's R3. Stunning! Made the Rega mira/Saturn sound boring. The only thing you have to look out for with the cyrus amp is a slightly loose bass. Other than that its superbly detailed, musical and dynamic with great control (mild bass issue aside). Your rega R3's are well controlled lower down so this is not an issue. Further more, you have an upgrade path with cyrus. Add a psx at a further date or add another poweramp etc. So its rather more 'future proof' then one or two of your other choices but you may just like it 'as it is'. I did. With regards to the candy, again, I have'nt heard it or its matching Cd player but I've heard a few times now that people are flogging them to change to creek evo's for the increased detail they (apparently) offer. Go and listen to all of them if you can and factor in what you may change in the future.
[/quote]
Drummerman
Cheers for that. I should be getting the Nait 5i in the next couple of days, not sure if the new one is any different other than a MP3 socket on the front though. Like i said, i really liked the Cyrus 8vs2 and the upgrade options at a later date. Will just have to wait and see. Due to discounts, the price i can get for each of them is pretty similar so i wuld not be saving a great deal by getting the Naim. This probably makes the Cyrus better value, not sure.
John Duncan
Well-known member
- Jan 8, 2008
- 2,033
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"I should be getting the Nait 5i in the next couple of days, not sure if the new one is any different other than a MP3 socket"
Yes it has been vastly improved not just the MP3 socket, I heard it a few weeks ago and was very impressed with the amount grunt it had for a 50wpc amp it sounded a lot more.............
Yes it has been vastly improved not just the MP3 socket, I heard it a few weeks ago and was very impressed with the amount grunt it had for a 50wpc amp it sounded a lot more.............
[quote user="bluetorric"]
"I should be getting the Nait 5i in the next couple of days, not sure if the new one is any different other than a MP3 socket"
Yes it has been vastly improved not just the MP3 socket, I heard it a few weeks ago and was very impressed with the amount grunt it had for a 50wpc amp it sounded a lot more.............
[/quote]
Well i'm glad to hear that, as the previous one was appartently pretty damn good. That's pretty impressive then, bearing in mind that it costs exactly the same as the old one!!!
"I should be getting the Nait 5i in the next couple of days, not sure if the new one is any different other than a MP3 socket"
Yes it has been vastly improved not just the MP3 socket, I heard it a few weeks ago and was very impressed with the amount grunt it had for a 50wpc amp it sounded a lot more.............
[/quote]
Well i'm glad to hear that, as the previous one was appartently pretty damn good. That's pretty impressive then, bearing in mind that it costs exactly the same as the old one!!!
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