When should actives be recommended?

[BigH]

Audiophile article about actives

http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/active_speakers_intro1_e.html

 

[chebby]

Choose an active speaker with class A amplification such as ATC.

I believe they are AB.

The ATC SCM50 ASLs operate in class A up to around 96dB (@1 metre)

 

[richardw42]

I only came to AVI because of the exposure on this forum and knew they must be pretty good because people were being so pathetic in their unreasoned berating of people who were sharing their experience.

exactly the same for me. I'd never heard of AVI. Then I read all the @@@@ on here and thought I must investigate.

 

[relocated]

The AVI ADM 40s take things to another level but actually do not diminish the merits of the 9Ts. In fact they show, even more, just how good they are and what spectacular VFM they were.

This will be very boring to some but, I only recommend AVI ADMs because I have the experience of ownership and 40 years of knowing the passive way and a miriad of products both affordable and not. I don't recommend things I have no ownership experience of.

Based on my experience and reading technical appraisal by people more knowledgeable than me, I believe that a properly applied active design will outperform a properly applied passive speaker. People may disagree courtesy of their listening experience but that, in strict fact and accuracy terms, is Canute-ism and for me is a shame for them because they cut themselves off from possibly a better way for them.

What I have never understood on this Forum, is the anxiety experienced and expressed by non AVI owners about AVI owners expressing their enthusiasm for a product they own. To everyone out there, THERE IS NO AVI CONSPIRACY, ASHLEY DOES NOT CONTROL US, WE DO NOT DO HIS BIDDING.

You seem to be genuinely in love with the sound and upgrade in SQ AVI speakers has to offer and hence you are very enthusiastic in recommending them. Which is completely understandable.

Just out of curiosity, do you think it will be possible for you to have a listen out for Event Opal speakers at your next possible opportunity and if so, it would be really nice to read your views on the comparision notes.

I am not asking this to prove any point but I have a feeling that there might be comparable solutions on the offer along with AVI and possibly better sound. Your listening to the other active speakers, does not have to stem out from the point of upgrade but could be curiosity too and a bit of spare time, if you can.

Normally one would have heard other active speakers on the offer before buying ADM 40s even upgrading from the 9s but some times a brand's charm could blind us from seeing the other possibilities.

It would be interesting to hear other actives now that I know what AVI actives have done for my listening pleasure. The problem for me is that, to do this I would be wasting the time of whatever establishment I went to for a listen. I wouldn't be there auditioning with a view to purchase, would have to lie about being there and that doesn't fit in with my personal morality. That is not to mention being in the back of beyond and civilisation, well shops anyway, thankfully being a long way away.

I like to think that AVI has not blinded me to other product. I so love my 9Ts and the AVI ADM 40s are to me just more so. The AVI 9 series are, in their purest form, a speaker plus sub system but very many people do not need or want the sub. The 40s, as you probably know, are a floorstanding bigger brother that needs no sub. Had I not liked the 40s I would have stayed with the 9Ts and still been happy.

Just on the specifics of the Opals and with apologies to owners, they are just too [ahem] ugly for my eyes and I could not have them in my sitting/listening room. However good they sounded, luckily I don't have to make that compromise with my premium furniture quality 40s.

A pleasure having a conversation with you.

Relocated.

 

[richardw42]

I'd love to hear more actives, plus stuff like magnepans and Martin Logan, but I'd only be wasting the dealers time.

 

[Andrew Everard]

"You go up to the zebra crossing..."

"Take your shoes off, check you're not dead..."

 

[hoopsontoast]

Audiophile article about actives

http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/active_speakers_intro1_e.html

I am not sure that anyone has argued against that 'active' speakers SHOULD technically be better, its just they are not ALWAYS better.

A full-range-driver SHOULD be better than multiple drivers due to phase/driver integration issues and lack of a crossover, but is not always the case.

An Open-Baffle (Di-Pole) speaker SHOULD be better than a boxed speaker with its lack of box colouration and internal reflections, but its not always the case.

A transistor amplifier SHOULD be better than a Tube amp because of its measurably lower distortion at a given output but its not always the case.

Its just another approach to the problem of getting sound in your living room.

 

[relocated]

I didn't realise Quad still did valve amps. When did they restart with valves, I thought their valve amps were discontinued decades ago?

Clickety

And indeed clickety

Thanks very much Andrew. Completely off my radar but it must be excellent for those that still crave Quad valves.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I'd love to hear more actives, plus stuff like magnepans and Martin Logan, but I'd only be wasting the dealers time.

Good to see you have an open mind!

 

[BigH]

Audiophile article about actives

http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/active_speakers_intro1_e.html

I am not sure that anyone has argued against that 'active' speakers SHOULD technically be better, its just they are not ALWAYS better.

A full-range-driver SHOULD be better than multiple drivers due to phase/driver integration issues and lack of a crossover, but is not always the case.

An Open-Baffle (Di-Pole) speaker SHOULD be better than a boxed speaker with its lack of box colouration and internal reflections, but its not always the case.

A transistor amplifier SHOULD be better than a Tube amp because of its measurably lower distortion at a given output but its not always the case.

Its just another approach to the problem of getting sound in your living room.

I think people should hear both and make there minds up but if you suggest that you get a load of hostile comments from mostly people who have never heard them. Just like the OP he won't hear them because the drivers are too expensive, so would he hear them if they had £100 drivers? I would rather have £500 drivers in my £3,400 speakers, thank you.

 

[richardw42]

I'd love to hear more actives, plus stuff like magnepans and Martin Logan, but I'd only be wasting the dealers time.

Good to see you have an open mind!

i haven't heard them, but first time I saw those Martin Logan hybrids I almost wet myself. Beautiful.

 

[Ajani]

I only came to AVI because of the exposure on this forum and knew they must be pretty good because people were being so pathetic in their unreasoned berating of people who were sharing their experience. Once again these berated people coming from plenty of experience of passive and loving a passive speaker until they heard an AVI ADM 9T.

I really need to address this point, since I believe it is the real cause of all these endless arguments about AVI.

I believe that persons like yourself and Overdose are not spammers. You tried AVI products, found them to really suit your needs and readily recommend them. There's nothing wrong with that.

HOWEVER, you assume that the contempt for AVI on this forum is unfounded. That is most certainly not the case. While I really doubt that any of the current AVI proponents here are actually pawns of AVI, spammers etc... That was not always the case.

Just read the kind of comments that are made on AVI's forums about dealers and manufacturers of passive systems, about WHF, references to "audiofools" and you get some notion of what was brought to this forum a few years ago. Ashley James and several other members of the AVI forums were members of WHF forums. They brought those same kind of insulting arguments here and created all this contempt. Members were banned for spamming and just being plain nasty and then recreated new accounts to do it again(their IP addresses were checked by the mods to confirm the return of the same user with a new username).

So yes it is sad that persons who are just sharing their experience meet all this hostility, but the problem is that the old wounds never really healed.

You've basically jumped into a war, thinking that the side being attacked is the victim, without realising that they started the conflict.

If the early AVI proponents had merely respected the rules and other members of this forum, none of these debates would be happening. But then, most of us would probably never have heard of AVI without all the controversy being created. So truth is that AVI has won and continues to do so.

 

[the record spot]

that seeming rarity in HiFi these days; "the closest approach to the original sound".

Umm, that's Quad's slogan, isn't it? You know, the company that makes big ol' multibox systems, valve amplifiers...

Maybe but why do most studios use actives to monitor the sound recording?

This is a guess, but There probably is not room on top of the console for a power amplifier, the active monitos can plug straight into the mixer.

You'll find, at least in some cases, that some mastering engineers use both. Steve Hoffman and Barry Diament being two that immediately spring to mind.

 

[the record spot]

And here was me about to say change at Waverley then get off the Fife Circle at Dunfermline...

Most studios I've recorded in used passives. None of them were Abbey Road.

I'm reminded of the old 'How do I get to Carnegie Hall?' joke...

"You go up to the zebra crossing..."

 

[Overdose]

The argument regarding actives vs passives in a studio environment is a pointless one and a mere diversion. The benefits of active over passive design are factual and the choice of either is down to personal preference, however there are vastly more active solutions in studio environments and in the music industry in general.

Make of that what you will, but it has little bearing on the original discussion.

 

[steve_1979]

first time I saw those Martin Logan hybrids I almost wet myself. Beautiful.

+1

Those Martin Logans are lovely looking speakers. 8)

I think that Maggies are a bit ugly though.

 

[hoopsontoast]

first time I saw those Martin Logan hybrids I almost wet myself. Beautiful.

+1

Those Martin Logans are lovely looking speakers. 8)

I think that Maggies are a bit ugly though.

They sound great though, if you have the room

 

[CnoEvil]

Choose an active speaker with class A amplification such as ATC.

I believe they are AB.

They're class A up to 2/3 power, so class A in any domestic setting and most settings at all. Touch the heatsinks and this will be clear.

Fwiw ATC are against class D.

To get 35W of pure Class A, takes a weight of around 30kg per amp, and will produce 35 deg C....and 60 W of class A, will be double that per amp.

I suspect we will see more and more Active speaker companies embracing Class D, which is constantly improving.

 

[BenLaw]

Choose an active speaker with class A amplification such as ATC.

I believe they are AB.

They're class A up to 2/3 power, so class A in any domestic setting and most settings at all. Touch the heatsinks and this will be clear.

Fwiw ATC are against class D.

To get 35W of pure Class A, takes a weight of around 30kg per amp, and will produce 35 deg C....and 60 W of class A, will be double that per amp.

I suspect we will see more and more Active speaker companies embracing Class D, which is constantly improving.

I'm sure you're right. I can't remember what technical arguments ATC gave, although I know you'd agree with their preference for class A! I think they additionally pointed out that even using class A technology their speakers remained environmentally friendly in the sense that, with occasional maintenance, their speakers last many decades. If they ever are forced by regulations into producing class D actives I'm confident they'll do a very good job of it

 

[Andrew Everard]

And here was me about to say change at Waverley then get off the Fife Circle at Dunfermline...

Be careful: you might be wanting to go to Birmingham but end up in Crewe

 

[relocated]

I only came to AVI because of the exposure on this forum and knew they must be pretty good because people were being so pathetic in their unreasoned berating of people who were sharing their experience. Once again these berated people coming from plenty of experience of passive and loving a passive speaker until they heard an AVI ADM 9T.

I really need to address this point, since I believe it is the real cause of all these endless arguments about AVI.

I believe that persons like yourself and Overdose are not spammers. You tried AVI products, found them to really suit your needs and readily recommend them. There's nothing wrong with that.

HOWEVER, you assume that the contempt for AVI on this forum is unfounded. That is most certainly not the case. While I really doubt that any of the current AVI proponents here are actually pawns of AVI, spammers etc... That was not always the case.

Just read the kind of comments that are made on AVI's forums about dealers and manufacturers of passive systems, about WHF, references to "audiofools" and you get some notion of what was brought to this forum a few years ago. Ashley James and several other members of the AVI forums were members of WHF forums. They brought those same kind of insulting arguments here and created all this contempt. Members were banned for spamming and just being plain nasty and then recreated new accounts to do it again(their IP addresses were checked by the mods to confirm the return of the same user with a new username).

So yes it is sad that persons who are just sharing their experience meet all this hostility, but the problem is that the old wounds never really healed.

You've basically jumped into a war, thinking that the side being attacked is the victim, without realising that they started the conflict.

If the early AVI proponents had merely respected the rules and other members of this forum, none of these debates would be happening. But then, most of us would probably never have heard of AVI without all the controversy being created. So truth is that AVI has won and continues to do so.

This is excellent because it enables me to, hopefully, put some misconceptions to bed. I don't make assumptions about things unless I preface a comment with, "I assume". In saying this I don't wish to be confrontational, you just need to know how I am.

When I first began reading this Forum, before I joined, the berating of people new to AVI products, who were just trying to share their experience and joy in a product, was pathetic. It was bullying and some have left here, probably never to return. A loss of knowledge and experience to the Forum that diminishes the Forum, if the Forum is anything to do with anything worth pursuing.

None of the people I witnessed being bullied fits with your description of how things were years back. Those individuals were not responsible for whatever hurt or offence caused by anyone else in the past and people should be intelligent and grown up enough to distinguish between them. If there are 'old wounds' then people should be grown up enough to let them heal, not pick at them and spill their contents on the innocent.

Is this Forum some sort of medieval backwater, where a wrong inflicted centuries ago is sufficient cause for some innocent to suffer the consequences of revenge today? One hopes not, but some individuals would be better suited to that environment.

I know full well that some individuals have posted provocatively, but did anyone die or even lose any sleep over it? It is unnecessary but can we try to be grown-ups and not carry on a fight between people who have nothing to do with the past?

I made no value judgements about what side was the hurt one. It just made me want to find out what this product was that could cause such bile and pathetic behaviour. Is it so bad to have someone question what is the perceived truth when they have the certain knowledge of the contrary?

Lots of words to say that arguments and actions of others should not be used to berate people who had nothing to do with it and are not following the same course. Some people could really do with growing up. Active is here, the information about them is spreading and people are finding that the products are pleasing to both their ear and wallet.

The cat is out of the bag and I feel sure that more and more people will leave the passive side of things and go active. Active has momentum and for good reason, I am forever in the debt of those berated souls who were brave enough to put their head above the parapet.

I trust, Ajani, that I have caused you no offence. I'm sure that if I have been insufficiently clear then you will get back to me.

Regards,

Relocated

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I don't remember there being much, if any, posts about AVI at all apart from the recent attempts at spamming. There have been posts about active speakers, of course, all of which have shown exemplary, if that's the right word, behaviour.

Perhaps you could give some references to this behaviour you claim to have seen?

 

[Ajani]

I only came to AVI because of the exposure on this forum and knew they must be pretty good because people were being so pathetic in their unreasoned berating of people who were sharing their experience. Once again these berated people coming from plenty of experience of passive and loving a passive speaker until they heard an AVI ADM 9T.

I really need to address this point, since I believe it is the real cause of all these endless arguments about AVI.

I believe that persons like yourself and Overdose are not spammers. You tried AVI products, found them to really suit your needs and readily recommend them. There's nothing wrong with that.

HOWEVER, you assume that the contempt for AVI on this forum is unfounded. That is most certainly not the case. While I really doubt that any of the current AVI proponents here are actually pawns of AVI, spammers etc... That was not always the case.

Just read the kind of comments that are made on AVI's forums about dealers and manufacturers of passive systems, about WHF, references to "audiofools" and you get some notion of what was brought to this forum a few years ago. Ashley James and several other members of the AVI forums were members of WHF forums. They brought those same kind of insulting arguments here and created all this contempt. Members were banned for spamming and just being plain nasty and then recreated new accounts to do it again(their IP addresses were checked by the mods to confirm the return of the same user with a new username).

So yes it is sad that persons who are just sharing their experience meet all this hostility, but the problem is that the old wounds never really healed.

You've basically jumped into a war, thinking that the side being attacked is the victim, without realising that they started the conflict.

If the early AVI proponents had merely respected the rules and other members of this forum, none of these debates would be happening. But then, most of us would probably never have heard of AVI without all the controversy being created. So truth is that AVI has won and continues to do so.

This is excellent because it enables me to, hopefully, put some misconceptions to bed. I don't make assumptions about things unless I preface a comment with, "I assume". In saying this I don't wish to be confrontational, you just need to know how I am.

When I first began reading this Forum, before I joined, the berating of people new to AVI products, who were just trying to share their experience and joy in a product, was pathetic. It was bullying and some have left here, probably never to return. A loss of knowledge and experience to the Forum that diminishes the Forum, if the Forum is anything to do with anything worth pursuing.

None of the people I witnessed being bullied fits with your description of how things were years back. Those individuals were not responsible for whatever hurt or offence caused by anyone else in the past and people should be intelligent and grown up enough to distinguish between them. If there are 'old wounds' then people should be grown up enough to let them heal, not pick at them and spill their contents on the innocent.

Is this Forum some sort of medieval backwater, where a wrong inflicted centuries ago is sufficient cause for some innocent to suffer the consequences of revenge today? One hopes not, but some individuals would be better suited to that environment.

I know full well that some individuals have posted provocatively, but did anyone die or even lose any sleep over it? It is unnecessary but can we try to be grown-ups and not carry on a fight between people who have nothing to do with the past?

I made no value judgements about what side was the hurt one. It just made me want to find out what this product was that could cause such bile and pathetic behaviour. Is it so bad to have someone question what is the perceived truth when they have the certain knowledge of the contrary?

Lots of words to say that arguments and actions of others should not be used to berate people who had nothing to do with it and are not following the same course. Some people could really do with growing up. Active is here, the information about them is spreading and people are finding that the products are pleasing to both their ear and wallet.

The cat is out of the bag and I feel sure that more and more people will leave the passive side of things and go active. Active has momentum and for good reason, I am forever in the debt of those berated souls who were brave enough to put their head above the parapet.

I trust, Ajani, that I have caused you no offence. I'm sure that if I have been insufficiently clear then you will get back to me.

Regards,

Relocated

No offence taken. I have no wounds from the early AVI wars. I just remember those threads.

I 100% agree that some persons really need to just move on, but I suspect that they really still don't trust anyone claiming to be an AVI fan.

The aim of my post was merely to provide context to a lot of what has happened.

I don't support bashing AVI fans, just as I don't support many of the comments still made on AVI forums about non-avi fans.

The final problem for AVI proponents is simply that if you frequently recommend only one brand, people are generally going to find it annoying.

 

[Dave_]

Perhaps you could give some references to this behaviour you claim to have seen?

Given that those threads were in the days of the old style moderation, and resulted in bannings, thread locking and deletion, and poor search function on here that isn't likely to be that easy.

And why drag it up again, there's already enough animosity from both sides...

 

[relocated]

Perhaps you could give some references to this behaviour you claim to have seen?

Given that those threads were in the days of the old style moderation, and resulted in bannings, thread locking and deletion, and poor search function on here that isn't likely to be that easy.

And why drag it up again, there's already enough animosity from both sides...

Exactly right. It really isn't that difficult to dismiss the sins of others in the past and have a sensible, informed discussion about the here and now..

AND Mr lemon I don't claim to have seen it, it is a fact plain and simple. I certainly have better things to do with my time.