When I thought I made my choice.. these to come to mind. Any ideas?

[admin_exported]

Hi guys.

My old post

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/headphones-etc/upgrading-my-cans-will-i-hear-better-sound-with-more-expensive-cans

In the mean time things have changed a bit

The V moda I can't get whare I live. Unfortunatly. What would been my decision to be honest

The beyerdynamics. I am afraid that the on ear cups arent my taste, i prefer pads like the P5 or around ear like my current senns

The B and W P 5. I have become a little afraid of the flimsy cable. It was on second place

But first this:

I am looking forward to the NC test of the new issue as I am now also interested in the Bose QC 15, so I wil take that in conideration as wel. But I am afraid of the headache and the nosea... havent had them on though. The QC 3 where fine for the 10 mins I had them on. Don't know if the frequenty is diffent between the QC 3 and QC 15 as the NC from the QC 15 is better according to everything I read about them?

But the 2 I am talking about are as adition to the B and W P5 and the ' new interest' bose QC 15

1. Audio technica ATH M 50. As they also can be folded. But on the own site. Cons about the spring in these cans..

2. the other one, I first read about it in a magazine I saw in a bookstore yesterday and today WHF posted a video:

The focal spirit one.

So again and again doubts doubts... Sorry... But I only can spend the (big) money only once, but the AT and the Spirit one arent as expensive as the B and W and the Bose... But stil...

 

[dalethorn]

I can't comment on all of your choices, but here are a few:

The QC3 was one of the worst headphones I've heard, not even fixable with bass adjustment EQ.

The QC15 with some bass adjustment is a fairly good headphone, but far below the quality of the Philips L1, and for the same price.

The B&W P5 I have, and it too is far below the quality of the L1, as are the VModa models.

The ATH-M50 has a solid reputation from way back, but (and I'm guessing here) they are probably below the fidelity of a headphone like the Philips L1 or some of its contemporaries.

The only two really great headphones I've heard in the $300 USD range are the Philips L1 and Shure 940, but they are different as night and day. The L1 is the darker one, somewhat along the lines of the M50. Unfortunately I haven't heard any of the AKG's, Denon's, or Audio-Technica's. I have had Sennheiser 800, 600, and 650, and while the 600 and 650 were good 10 years ago, they aren't the best today. The 800 is still the king.

 

[quadpatch]

Since you have to make the right choice being able to spend this money once you are going to have to try some out. Can you make it to London? There is a shop in Tottenham Court Road which has a ton of headphones on display and you can play with them as you like, just take your iPod with your music to play with and see which one you like.

In your previous post I recommended the V-Moda M-80 (which you will likely never get to play with in this country) and the Sennheiser HD25-1 II. Since i recommended the V-Moda back then I have bought them myself and I don't regret it one bit. So much better than the Sennheiser HD25-1 IIs tha t I sold them, the only slight down side is comfort as they are very small and press hard on the hears.

Sennheiser are soon replacing the HD25-1 II with a model called the Amperior. They look even more comfy and if they have improved the driver like they say it could be well worth waiting for. It, like the V-Moda, has buttons for the iPod on the wire which although it annoyed the s*** out of me could be good for you.

Apart from that Dale's L1 recommend sounds very interesting although I'm worried that all the headphones you are choosing are good at isolation. The L1 is going to be below average with the iPod for the commute by the sound of it, no pun intended.

Did you consider the AKG K550? I haven't tried it but What Hi-Fi seem to love em, big but closed - I think. I recently bought the open back signature AKGs and they are stunning!!

If you will ever listen to music through a computer another boost you can get is by passing your audio through a USB DAC / headphone amplifier. If that makes up much of your listening time I would recommend splitting your budget a bit to accomodate one. For example when I first tried the VModa (which are worth £160) I thought they sounded more like a £400 pair through my DAC / amp. Closer than half way between un-amped and my £600 Denon headphones. To me it really made that much diference but synergy is an issue so it can be a bit random.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reactions so far.

Today i listened to the B and W again for about half an hour in my local Apple store. To be quite honest, with my senns HD202 i almost never put the eq on for lets say dance. For the B and W a must for me to get the beat on the same level as the senns without the EQ on... So not sure I am conviced/that is a good thing? So basicly looking for a sound towards the 202 I think?

Iam afaid that the AKG 550 are to big and no carry case..

Monday I am gonna listen to the QC 15.

Open backs ansd semi open backs ( Philips?) are no option. I don't like to be desturbed by fellow travvelers and I don't want to desturb them

I live in Holland. Demoing the shure Dale suggested. Not gonna happen either

 

[dalethorn]

I'm still looking for the perfect portable. The VModa M80/V80 is good. Good sound and isolation. The Sennheiser 202-II has favorable reviews, so maybe that's the next best thing.

 

[Anonymous]

The sennheiser 202HDII?

I thought there was only one 202?

Ehm Dale, do you think that your V moda outshines the P5 in every aspect?

Can you describe for me the difference in them? Is the V moda better suited for other music tastes then the P5 and so yes, which ones are for the P5?

 

[dalethorn]

The sennheiser 202HDII?

I thought there was only one 202?

Ehm Dale, do you think that your V moda outshines the P5 in every aspect?

Can you describe for me the difference in them? Is the V moda better suited for other music tastes then the P5 and so yes, which ones are for the P5?

The P5 and Vmoda are quite different. The P5 has a more or less neutral response that's slightly tilted toward the bass, but the high end is lacking in detail and the bass is soft and slightly murky. The Vmoda M80 has excellent bass through the mids, but the highs are somewhat muted. I can make the M80 nearly perfect by using treble boost on iPod/iPhone, but with the P5 I have to keep it flat, not EQ'd, so it loses out slightly in sound quality, but not by much. They're close. Where the P5 has an advantage is portability and looks - they are slimline so they wear easily when not using and don't look geeky when on your head. The M80 can also be worn around your neck when not in use, but the earcups don't fold flat, and they bulge much more than the P5. For most people, the M80 requires bending the headband for a good fit on the ears, but even then they would not have quite the comfort of the P5.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you Dale.

I stil have got a couple of questions.

I do not know if you ever tried the Bose QC 15? How does it sound compared to the BW P5? Which one has the better bass?

And I wonder, no offence, but why do you have got the V moda and the B and W and which one do you use the most?

What is the burn in time for the B and W can you give me an indication.

And what you know and said for a longer listening session as far comfort goes take the B and W or is the QC15 even more comfy?

As I am going about the QC 15... Does it have a hiss? Some people can get nosea or headache from NC headphones. Did you ever had this?

Hope you can be of some help. Thanks in advance

 

[dalethorn]

Thank you Dale. I stil have got a couple of questions. I do not know if you ever tried the Bose QC 15? How does it sound compared to the BW P5? Which one has the better bass? And I wonder, no offence, but why do you have got the V moda and the B and W and which one do you use the most? What is the burn in time for the B and W can you give me an indication. And what you know and said for a longer listening session as far comfort goes take the B and W or is the QC15 even more comfy? As I am going about the QC 15... Does it have a hiss? Some people can get nosea or headache from NC headphones. Did you ever had this? Hope you can be of some help. Thanks in advance

The P5 bass is near normal but the QC15 bass is quite boosted. My wife uses the P5 and I the Vmoda. The P5 is much slimmer and a better fit for her. My estimate of burn-in for the P5 would be minimal, perhaps 30 hours, but since the sound is somewhat rounded at the edges anyway, you could enjoy music with them almost right away - just a couple hours to let the internals settle into place. The QC15 in my estimation would be most comfy - almost no pressure and feather-light. The P5 is very light but on-ear means pressing against the ears' pinnae(sp?). I don't recall any hiss with the QC15 - it is a quality product. I used the QC2, the previous model for about a year of home listening, and it was very nice - it had the most amazing liquid-sounding midrange I'd ever heard. The QC15 seems more bassy, and although I don't have one handy, I have had much experience with bassy headphones. Trust me (and my tests confirmed this with the QC15) - a modest bass reduction does not harm the sound. Boosting bass on a headphone with weak bass is nearly always unsatisfactory, so no problem with the Bose. I never experienced a discomfort with noise reduction, and a couple of 30 minute sessions in the Apple store with fairly high volume did not reveal any issues. There are problems with some headphones relating to emphasis and de-emphasis at certain freq's for some users, and/or pressure levels with some bass tones, but I have to get adjusted to that with many headphones - the Bose QC15 isn't unusual in that regard.

 

[bemaniac]

Since you have to make the right choice being able to spend this money once you are going to have to try some out. Can you make it to London? There is a shop in Tottenham Court Road which has a ton of headphones on display and you can play with them as you like, just take your iPod with your music to play with and see which one you like.

In your previous post I recommended the V-Moda M-80 (which you will likely never get to play with in this country) and the Sennheiser HD25-1 II. Since i recommended the V-Moda back then I have bought them myself and I don't regret it one bit. So much better than the Sennheiser HD25-1 IIs tha t I sold them, the only slight down side is comfort as they are very small and press hard on the hears.

Sennheiser are soon replacing the HD25-1 II with a model called the Amperior. They look even more comfy and if they have improved the driver like they say it could be well worth waiting for. It, like the V-Moda, has buttons for the iPod on the wire which although it annoyed the s*** out of me could be good for you.

Apart from that Dale's L1 recommend sounds very interesting although I'm worried that all the headphones you are choosing are good at isolation. The L1 is going to be below average with the iPod for the commute by the sound of it, no pun intended.

Did you consider the AKG K550? I haven't tried it but What Hi-Fi seem to love em, big but closed - I think. I recently bought the open back signature AKGs and they are stunning!!

If you will ever listen to music through a computer another boost you can get is by passing your audio through a USB DAC / headphone amplifier. If that makes up much of your listening time I would recommend splitting your budget a bit to accomodate one. For example when I first tried the VModa (which are worth £160) I thought they sounded more like a £400 pair through my DAC / amp. Closer than half way between un-amped and my £600 Denon headphones. To me it really made that much diference but synergy is an issue so it can be a bit random.

You have basically the system I'm thinking about. I have about £400 for headphones next week and don't mind used. Are you able to compare the denon ah-d5000 to the v-moda sound as I am looking for the outright best for electronic music out of the two regardless of the big difference in price.

 

[quadpatch]

I'm afraid I can't say much about the D5000 as i have never heard them. I think I read somewhere that they are closer to the D2000 than the D7000, only with similar cups as a the D7000. I have only heard the D2000 for about 5 minutes and I was fairly impressed...

My guess would be that the Denon will have heavier bass depth but the VModa will have more rounded performance and will be far better value.

Apart from the sonic signature there are big differences between the two headphones. The Denon will be twice as comfortable after 5 seconds and 1000 times more comfortable after an hour! The Denon will isolate poorly whereas the VModa will isolate very well. Size is also pretty polar opposite as well. Purely for sound quality (basing the D5000 on what I have heard) I would probably go for the VModa and spend the difference on a DAC (possibly headphone amp too, no idea how the headphone out is on your Azur).

 

[Anonymous]

Ok. So today I went to a dealer with the QC 15s on demo. But on demo only. It was to much haasle to take apart the whole demo unit from bose, so I still couldnt listen to own music... . But super comfortable though. Very diffirent to the B and W P5

So lets ask me one question. For trance music... The Bose QC 15 or the B and W?

And Dale, you talk about the EQ. When I listen now I set it on dance or off for trance on my ipod touch 1st gen. Any other suggestions?

 

[dalethorn]

Ok. So today I went to a dealer with the QC 15s on demo. But on demo only. It was to much haasle to take apart the whole demo unit from bose, so I still couldnt listen to own music... . But super comfortable though. Very diffirent to the B and W P5. So lets ask me one question. For trance music... The Bose QC 15 or the B and W? And Dale, you talk about the EQ. When I listen now I set it on dance or off for trance on my ipod touch 1st gen. Any other suggestions?

I hate that demo-stand thing where I can't play my own music. Dealers who use those are not serious about selling good headphones at all. But anyway, for trance I think the Bose would be best - the P5 would do well with acoustic music and classical/folk etc., but for trance I like a stronger tighter bass and a little more detail on the high end. The Bose would do better.

 

[Anonymous]

I dunno man - it might be best for us all not to read many reviews or go on forums. It just makes the mind cloudier and decisions more sphincter-clenchingly difficult.

For example - no offence Dalethorn, but you seem to have every headphone on the market and have reviewed them all, but why? Cant you just buy one and be happy? Am I meant to trust you more - or less - because you can't make your mind up and settle down?

I understand where it comes from, exactly - its that desire to constantly own the next new big shiny toy that goes one better than the last new shiny toy.

But its a very confusing thing, this shiny new toy business. Remember when you didnt have the internet to interfere with and mangle your head? When shops had things on the shelf and those things were the things you had to choose from, full stop?

Anyway, I'm still waiting for the day when headphones release pheromones into the air, with the aim of making the wearer more attractive to women rather than the complete opposite.

 

[dalethorn]

I dunno man - it might be best for us all not to read many reviews or go on forums. It just makes the mind cloudier and decisions more sphincter-clenchingly difficult.

For example - no offence Dalethorn, but you seem to have every headphone on the market and have reviewed them all, but why? Cant you just buy one and be happy? Am I meant to trust you more - or less - because you can't make your mind up and settle down?

I understand where it comes from, exactly - its that desire to constantly own the next new big shiny toy that goes one better than the last new shiny toy.

But its a very confusing thing, this shiny new toy business. Remember when you didnt have the internet to interfere with and mangle your head? When shops had things on the shelf and those things were the things you had to choose from, full stop?

Anyway, I'm still waiting for the day when headphones release pheromones into the air, with the aim of making the wearer more attractive to women rather than the complete opposite.

Is the pot calling the kettle black? This is a forum you're writing on and inveighing against at the same time. My reasons for buying headphones with my own money are my own business of course.

But for those who do find reviews valuable as I do (I need them to make decisions), I'm simply returning the favor that so many others have done for me. Every headphone sounds different, and experiencing the different sounds improves one's mental faculties as any educational experience will.

It is interesting that I've seen people question whether an independent reviewer should be able to enjoy the status of respected reviewer on his own merits, when so many corporations have invested money in their own reviewers.

"You seem to have every headphone on the market".... I have 9 currently, from 7 different makers. I do not have HiFiMan, Stax, Audeze, Klipsch, Sennheiser, AKG, Audio-Technica, Ultrasone, .... and probably a hundred others. I don't buy to be exhaustive - I buy new and interesting items only.

 

[quadpatch]

WTF Obiwone? Simple jealousy or do you object to people trying to give advice on a forum? If you get more confused by reading more information I'd be worried, your brain has issues with filtering and making decisions. I suggest you stop using the internet and go live in a log cabin. At least that way you wont be able to make pointless comments on forums any more.

 

[dalethorn]

There was also a comment "remember when we didn't have the Internet and we had to take whatever was on the shelf." This is an interesting comment, because it reminds me of what one of my bosses said once - "How could you control inventory before computers?"

In the Internet example, we had subscriptions to several hifi mags in the U.S. - Audio, High Fidelity, Stereo Review, Stereophile, and not to forget the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society. These publications, plus many other advertising flyers, listed more components than you would be able to buy in a lifetime. And you could special order most anything you wanted from your local dealer, since those were real dealers then. There may be more choices today in the absolute sense, but once you drill down to your target interest area (in my case mostly headphones in the £175 to £575 range), things really aren't much different than they ever were.

Oh wait - there is one interesting difference. There are a lot of non-serious reviewers posting today, which we didn't see "way back when". So in that sense, things have not exactly improved. And BTW, us folks across the Pond were well acquainted with the likes of Hartley/Quad/Decca systems, BBC LS3/5A's, you name it. In spite of all the miles distance (or is it kilometres?)

 

[quadpatch]

No we use miles too (car speedo is written in both for close proximity to Europe), although we mostly use meters rather than feet for smaller stuff. We use both Pounds and KG for weight. Pounds for money but that is metric. Liters instead of gallons mostly, although our gallon is not the same as yours. We are half way stuck between the archaic imperial measurements that you guys still use and the common sense of metric Europe on the other side. On the positive side we understand both

 

[dalethorn]

There was also a question about shiny toys, which suggests that some listeners may use their headphones for background music applications only, such as jogging or treadmill, or working in a cubicle. So here is a possible reason to own several headphones, if you want to experience more of your music. Unless you get lucky and find the one perfect headphone (heh).

Shure SRH-1840: The high end sounds more like live music than anything I've ever heard. Most of my other headphones sound slightly shrill by comparison. The 1840 is uber-comfortable, but very non-portable.

Beyerdynamic DT-48A(oval pads): The most unique (and possibly best) midrange ever, 75 year old design, very un-comfy but tolerable, built to last forever. Not portable.

Philips Fidelio L1: Excellent highs and mids, very comfy, big but portable, with the best (EQ'd) bass of all my headphones.

Shure SRH-940: Closest thing to a Sennheiser HD-800 I've heard, with some limitations, slightly bright, a fantastic bargain at its price. Big but portable, very comfy.

Beyerdynamic DT-1350: Small and light but rugged all-metal, very portable and an ideal carrycase included, large midrange emphasis partially fixable with EQ, crystal clear sound with Tesla drivers.

Bose OE2i: Excellent bass and mids, recessed highs partially fixable with EQ, most portable headphone of all, folds up small enough in its carrycase to fit into a back pocket.

Now if I can find one headphone with the DT-48 mids, the SRH-1840 highs, the Philips L1 bass, and anywhere near the portability of the Bose OE2i, I'm on it.