whats the difference??

[admin_exported]

im asking this as im toying with the idea of upgrading my avr, seeing as there's so many good deals around on last years high end models...

ok..

im watching a blu-ray on my system, the sound is very good from my yamaha rxv765, so i fancy turning up the volume as the negihbours are out, it sounds even better, like being at the cinema, great movie sound..

i swap my yam for a z1 or pioneer lx-83 etc, im watching a blu-ray on my system, the sound is very good, so i fancy.... you can see where im going, right?

whats the difference? what can a better amp give me that turning up the volume on my current system cant?

im talking sound quality here, not features, functions, just sound,, ta..

 

[aliEnRIK]

Better amps will give more detail and spacial effects. Going loud has nothing to do with sounding right.

 

[Anonymous]

but the same data is being fed to either amp, my yam or a z1 for example, the amp processes and amplifies that data, the detail is in the source, is it that an inferior avr cant get it all across, as is said to be the case with hdmi cables? (if you believe that), or does a more potent and higher specced avr actually alter the data in some way? exagerateing it?

 

[aliEnRIK]

I upgraded from a denon (1k) that I was using as a pre amp to my marantz (2.5k dedicated pre amp) and theres a world of difference even though the signal is digital

All its doing is losing less information before amplifying it

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Thinking of spending some of that extra cash Max

I would definetely seriously think about whether investing there than the tv market in the future, whether the tvs get better i would imagine would be debatable at present.

Definetely worth considering both

 

[Anonymous]

aliEnRIK:
I upgraded from a denon (1k) that I was using as a pre amp to my marantz (2.5k dedicated pre amp) and theres a world of difference even though the signal is digital

All its doing is losing less information before amplifying it

ah, i was wondering about that, ta rick.

 

[Anonymous]

gel:
Thinking of spending some of that extra cash Max

I would definetely seriously think about whether investing there than the tv market in the future, whether the tvs get better i would imagine would be debatable at present.

Definetely worth considering both

just thinking about it really gel, there are some great deals around on higfh end avr's..

i have no doubt tv's will be better next year, but i think until oled becomes available in bigger screen sizes, and at affordable prices (probably talking 4 years), the improvements in picture quality will be very marginal, extras will be selling points, google tv, full web access, wireless, etc...

 

[Anonymous]

40" OLED 3D TVS will be the next big thing

 

[micks_address]

i was toying with upgrading my receiver to a 1911 for HDMI 1.4 but instead bought a panasonic bdt300 which has dual hdmi outputs, one for audio to the 1.3 receiver and one for 1.4 hdmi to the tv.. all i'm missing out on is audio return channel.. but not to bothered about this.. i have optical out from tv to avr so i'm covered there.. i just hope blu-ray manufacturers continue to offer players with dual hdmi, i know the Oppo BD93 will, but Sony doesnt seem to.. which is a shame as i would have been interested in the s570's loading speeds.. but it just wouldnt work to its full potential in my setup

 

[Frank Harvey]

craigtumilty: 40" OLED 3D TVS will be the next big thing

Who buys 40" any more? We haven't sold many 40/42" TV's since the last Pioneer 42" model. Everyone was going for 50" and 60" - now it seems as though everyone's buying 50" and 65"!

I think OLED will be a shortlived thing. Everyone though plasmas were going to die out with all these new fangled screens coming to the market. Two/three years later, there's more plasmas around than ever, and all these newer screens and LCD's are looking rather average, if not, below par.

The next big thing will be 4K2K.....

 

[Frank Harvey]

maxflinn:but the same data is being fed to either amp, my yam or a z1 for example, the amp processes and amplifies that data, the detail is in the source, is it that an inferior avr cant get it all across, as is said to be the case with hdmi cables? (if you believe that), or does a more potent and higher specced avr actually alter the data in some way? exagerateing it?

Different amps use different DAC's for decoding from digital. Think of it as a hi-fi system. The signal comes from the CD transport digitally into the DAC. The DAC has to decode the digital signal to analogue - and we all know that there are marked differences brtween DACs of all kinds. This is then fed through the pre-amplifier, which will usually degrade the signal - how much depends on it's quality and ability to leave the signal untouched. Then it's the power amplifier's turn. This has to be man enough to drive the speakers being used properly - again, we all know the sort of differences that can be heard between hi-fi amplifiers. This amplifier has to produce extreme dynamics instantaneously, tell the drive units when to start and stop, again, without degrading the signal with the components it's using. And it has to do that either 7, 9, or 11 times over....this is where offboard multi-channel power amps come in that use a separate transformer for each channel - so that each channel can draw instant current independently to any other channel.

 

[professorhat]

FrankHarveyHiFi:The next big thing will be 4K2K.....

Nah - pointless for home technology unless you're either (a) going to sit 2 feet from a regular size screen or (b) going to put in at least a 100" projector screen. I can't see either happening in most homes.

But hey, I could be wrong!

 

[Clare Newsome]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
Who buys 40" any more? We haven't sold many 40/42" TV's since the last Pioneer 42" model. Everyone was going for 50" and 60" - now it seems as though everyone's buying 50" and 65"!

I think OLED will be a shortlived thing. Everyone though plasmas were going to die out with all these new fangled screens coming to the market. Two/three years later, there's more plasmas around than ever, and all these newer screens and LCD's are looking rather average, if not, below par.

This may be your experience as a specialist retailer - always the natural home of big plasmas - but it's certainly not reflected in the wider world, where only now is the average screen size edging up from 32in to 37in, with 40in taking a vast share of the market. And the best LCDs this year have been astonishing quality.

 

[Sliced Bread]

maxflinn:what can a better amp give me that turning up the volume on my current system cant?

I have friends who just turn up there stereo midi-systems to get more detail. As I'm sure you'll agree, it's really not the same. This is no different with AV amps.

From the amps I've heard, the more expensive amps don't need to be turned up to sound exciting. Add to that more subtle and precise effects and a fuller more natural sound.

Think of what makes good sound in a stereo setup, such as (but not restricted to) DAC, amplifier, power supply, general good design. All these components exits in the AV amp, but add to that processing. Same rules apply.

 

[scene]

maxflinn:what can a better amp give me that turning up the volume on my current system cant?
I suppose the glib answer to this, is the same experience as listening at louder volumes, without annoying your neighbours

More expensive amps have corrective algorithms to re-balance the music at lower volumes, so that you can still enjoy the music, without running your system at reference levels, e.g. 85dB spl at 1m +20dB head - which is VERY LOUD.

In addition, the improved circuitry in better amps will improve the timing of music, the separation of instruments, the actual shape of individual sounds. For example, if you fed a pure saw-tooth wave into a cheap amp (an artificial case, I know), the output post amplification would not be a saw-tooth wave, but an approximation. The peaks would tend to be rounded, taking away some of the bite and attack of the note. A better amp would come closer to the pure saw-tooth.

Timing and separation are key to listening to complex pieces of music, without them a piece can sound confused and muddy. This is where a better amp excels, pulling out the nuances of a piece and allowing your ears and brain to appreciate a piece in a way that is as near to the live experience as possible.

 

[Anonymous]

scene:maxflinn:what can a better amp give me that turning up the volume on my current system cant?
I suppose the glib answer to this, is the same experience as listening at louder volumes, without annoying your neighbours

More expensive amps have corrective algorithms to re-balance the music at lower volumes, so that you can still enjoy the music, without running your system at reference levels, e.g. 85dB spl at 1m +20dB head - which is VERY LOUD.

In addition, the improved circuitry in better amps will improve the timing of music, the separation of instruments, the actual shape of individual sounds. For example, if you fed a pure saw-tooth wave into a cheap amp (an artificial case, I know), the output post amplification would not be a saw-tooth wave, but an approximation. The peaks would tend to be rounded, taking away some of the bite and attack of the note. A better amp would come closer to the pure saw-tooth.

Timing and separation are key to listening to complex pieces of music, without them a piece can sound confused and muddy. This is where a better amp excels, pulling out the nuances of a piece and allowing your ears and brain to appreciate a piece in a way that is as near to the live experience as possible.very well explained sean

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
maxflinn:but the same data is being fed to either amp, my yam or a z1 for example, the amp processes and amplifies that data, the detail is in the source, is it that an inferior avr cant get it all across, as is said to be the case with hdmi cables? (if you believe that), or does a more potent and higher specced avr actually alter the data in some way? exagerateing it?

Different amps use different DAC's for decoding from digital. Think of it as a hi-fi system. The signal comes from the CD transport digitally into the DAC. The DAC has to decode the digital signal to analogue - and we all know that there are marked differences brtween DACs of all kinds. This is then fed through the pre-amplifier, which will usually degrade the signal - how much depends on it's quality and ability to leave the signal untouched. Then it's the power amplifier's turn. This has to be man enough to drive the speakers being used properly - again, we all know the sort of differences that can be heard between hi-fi amplifiers. This amplifier has to produce extreme dynamics instantaneously, tell the drive units when to start and stop, again, without degrading the signal with the components it's using. And it has to do that either 7, 9, or 11 times over....this is where offboard multi-channel power amps come in that use a separate transformer for each channel - so that each channel can draw instant current independently to any other channel.

him too