Whatever happened to bi-polar rear speakers?

[david_tring]

I've just received the latest November edition of "What Hi-Fi" and was very pleased to see the Group Test of Surround Speaker packages, as I'm considering updating my current speakers.
My query is this - all the magazines used to state that for multi-channel music (DVD-A or SACD) one should have four identical front/rear speakers (ignoring the centre/sub for the moment) positioned at the same height and with the rears located behind the listening position firing forward, but for Home Theatre however the rears should be bi-polar speakers (for better dispersion) and located above and to the sides of the listener.

However I can't remember seeing any surround speaker packages in recent years where the rears are bi-polar - and all the packages featured in November What Hi-Fi have what I would call full-size rears (i.e. they are stand-mount front speakers but to be wall mounted).

Full-size rears would look huge on my lounge wall and would have to be mounted pointing down at strange angles to work?

So does any company still make bi-polar rear speakers to integrate with their 5-star surround packages, or has the physics of rear speakers changed behind my back!!

 

[nads]

just looked at some monitor audio ones. so they are still out there.

 

[Anonymous]

david_tring - are the tannoy custom f1, q-acoustics 1010i and Wharfedale Diamond 9 in that group test?

 

[Clare Newsome]

Nope, it's a higher-end test @£2K.

We have, however, tested all the speakers you mention. The full Tannoy Mercury Custom F1 package is a current Award winner and best in its price class (£750-£1500). The Q Acoustics is the current Award winner at the next price class down (up to £750). The Wharfedales remain a great package, but the Qs pip them for movie and music performance.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks again Clare. As the Tannoy Custom F1 package has monopole rears would i see an improvement in upgrading those to bi-pole/di-pole rears like the MISSION M3DSi or MS309i?

Cheers.

 

[Clare Newsome]

We're not big fans of mix/matching speaker brands in surround set-ups - the change of tonal character as effects pan around your room can be disjointing, and may outweigh any potential benefits.

 

[Anonymous]

The Dali Ikon 6 5.1 package on test this month happens to be the one I bought about a year ago.

The rears are the Dali Ikon On-Walls. These are a special version of the Dali Ikon One speaker, same drivers but different housing. They hang on the wall, but don't stick out nearly as much as a normal speaker, they're also angled so they can be placed either toed in one way or swapped round for the other way.

They don't have extra sets of drivers as some surround speakers do, but they work really well for both movies and music.

 

[david_tring]

Thanks to Claire and everyone else for their replies - yes the Dali On-Walls that Will mentioned sound a good option. I think that my present set-up can be improved, so I guess it's a case of finding a good ( = "What HiFi" recommended) set of speakers and then looking for on-wall optional rears from the same maker.

But no-one's actually answered my original question - why do all surround speaker packages now come (as standard) with "music" spec rears when they're being sold for "home theatre" spec use?

 

[Anonymous]

I have the Monitor Audio RSFX and they can be set bipole or dipole depending on siting and whether you're going to use them in a 5.1 or 7.1 setup and they're great - very nice looking, discreet speakers too.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Damien Buckley:I have the Monitor Audio RSFX and they can be set bipole or dipole depending on siting and whether you're going to use them in a 5.1 or 7.1 setup and they're great - very nice looking, discreet speakers too.

And I have the RS6AV front speakers and subwoofer with the R90 satellites (they are like mini versions of the RS1) as rears. They are great and can be wall mounted, with the brackets supplied, at an angle.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi there,

It's not well publicised but KEF has dipole rears for its Q series (I think the model number is iQ8ds) and because of the Uni-Q driver, the dispersion is nigh on pefect for a dipole that you can't localise. THX is keen to still use dipoles for rears (the only real way in a house to simulate the multiple delay paths of lots of rear speakers in a big cinema) and they do give a certain 'I'm in a cinema' quality to home situations even in 6.1 or 7.1 installations. What Hi-Fi always liked the KEF dipoles so if you can still get some they are well worth considering.

 

[Anonymous]

Clare - when i asked about getting different makes of rears to my fronts you said "We're not big fans of mix/matching speaker brands in surround set-ups". As I have the Tannoy Custom F1's and FC for fronts and center, if i go for the F1 or FR monopoles for rears, where is the best place to position them, side walls? rear walls?

My viewing sofa is about 10ft from the fronts and is about 2ft from the back wall, with side walls about 4/5ft away on each side. Here's a quick pic:

Would appreciate your thoughts and advice.

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:We're not big fans of mix/matching speaker brands in surround set-ups - the change of tonal character as effects pan around your room can be disjointing, and may outweigh any potential benefits.

ÿÿI never really got this theory.

How close in tonal character is a Dali Ikon 6 and a Dali Ikon 1/ on wall?. A fairly big floormount with 4 drive units has quite a different character to a small standmount/wallmount.

ÿ

ÿ

 

[Frank Harvey]

david_tring:But no-one's actually answered my original question - why do all surround speaker packages now come (as standard) with "music" spec rears when they're being sold for "home theatre" spec use?Firstly it's a cheaper option. Most people are used to monopole speakers in packages, and are quite happy to purchase these. Most people are using these lifestyle packages for music as well as movies, and placement of a monopole is easier than a dipole/tripole.

For enthusiasts, dipole and tripole loudspeakers are the way to go as they offer a more diffused, and larger sound field for movies. All but one of M&K's packages use tripole rear speakers, which is something that is exclusive to them. As stated, KEF, as well as Monitor Audio do produce dipole rears to match their own loudspeakers.

 

[Anonymous]

B&W do some 'dipole' speakers as they call them, as part of the upper end of their 68x theatre speaker packages. The DS3's are pretty much standard rear speaker size to me (note: they're not 'style' sized speakers), and significantly smaller than even smaller standmounts you might want to be tempted to use as rears.

Yes, they're not cheap, but then nothing good in life ever is!

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=2376&sc=ht

I have them matched up with the other parts of the 68x family, and to be honest... I cannot find a single fault with them. Other than the fact other half won't let me take the grills off the front, but that's hardly the speakers fault...

 

[Anonymous]

To elaborate on the DS3s, these are actually tripoles in that they have a switch behind the grill whereby one can chnage between monopole and dipole mode, depending on source, environment, personal preferences etc. This can give the best of both worlds as it were. For sure at £500 plus they aren't cheap but IMO there are excellent.

 

[Anonymous]

MattSpeed:
Other than the factÿother half won't let me take the grills off the front, but that's hardly the speakers fault...

Why would you want to? They are as ugly as sin.

 

[asif]

I have a pair of the monitor audio gold tripole rears. In gloss black, i thought they looked a lot better than the rsfx rears, which i think sound good but in terms of looks have a lot left to be desired!

 

[Anonymous]

The MA (not bronze) don't look so bad, the B&W look horrific grillless(?). Maybe I should get a life. NO, thats why I went for normal speakers...

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Everyone,

ÿJust wanted to make a small clarification as I can see confusion creeping in....

A Di-pole speaker is designed to have a "figure of 8" dispersion pattern with a null at the listening position.

ÿA Bi-pole speaker is designed to have a near 180 degree dispersion pattern.

ÿDi-pole speakers were useful in the early days of surround sound where they added good ambience to Pro Logic sound tracks with their matrixed surround channels. Modern thinking is that they add very little to discrete mixes unless you have a small room with reflective surfaces where a mono or bi pole speaker would be too easy to localise.

Bi-pole speakers are still a very good choice when used correctly thanks to their even coverage of the listening area. A correctly placed bi-pole will work very well for music as well as movies.

A di-pole or bi-pole speaker will typically have a more complex cabinet design and/or driver layout than a monopole of similar size.

ÿIn a space with only one "row" of seating a monopole is just as good a choice as a bipole as you don't really need to worry about the dispersion covering a wide seating area. This situation describes most UK livingrooms and so that and the commercial factor mean it makes sense to include a mono pole in a package.

ÿAnyone really interested in this stuff could do worse than seek out a copy of Floyd Tooles new book where he lay out in some detail why di-pole is bad, bi-pole is good and mono pole is acceptable in many situations.

ÿ

HTH

ÿ

Neilÿ

 

[biggus_1961]

Matt where did you put the DS3 speakers, behind you or on the side walls ?

 

[Anonymous]

My main movie watching sofa is the one I have facing my screen, with the centre, left and right speakers where they should be in relation to the screen. The sofa is up against a wall, and I have the DS3's literally either side of the (4-seat long) sofa, at a little above head height when sitting. I have them mounting directly into the wall, using the rather useful mounting template B&W provide.

Do I think the DS3's are brilliant? Yes.

Can I actually tell they're brilliant? I'm less sure about that. Given that they're at the end of the day 'only' surround speakers, and between the screen, the amp, and the 3 front speakers, the overwhelming effect of how good the movie experience is, I can't say whether or not the DS3's are brilliant or not, or it's the amp, or I'm not paying enough attention, or my ear isn't tuned enough, or what.

All I can say is they (the whole package) sound brilliant to me, and regarding the DS3's I'm dead happy with their size, aesthetics, and sound.

 

[Anonymous]

would you guys say monopoles are ok for my room in the above post?

also, where should i place them?

cheers.

 

[Anonymous]

Clare/Andrew - any help with the above please?