Question What would you pay for a decent DAC, and I mean DAC not preamp or headphone amplifier??

[Al ears]

I have often looked at the prices of DACs thinking that sometime in the future I may have to buy one.
What would you consider paying for one and what differentiates the cheap from more expensive?
can they really perform so much differently seeing that their main purpose is simply to convert an analogue signal to an analog one?
I was really interested in the latest HiFi Rose RD160 until I saw the price
Is this madness??

 

[Cork]

Probably not what you were looking for, but - nothing. I'm completely satisfied with the DACs in my Yamaha receivers.

 

[Al ears]

Probably not what you were looking for, but - nothing. I'm completely satisfied with the DACs in my Yamaha receivers.

sort of in the same situation currently. My amp has a DAC that I don't use. The one in my Oppo 105 is utilised to playback from an external USB hard drive.
What is to gain from adding an external DAC costing £4700??

 

[podknocker]

If a £40 DAC can resolve any format and send an accurate, noise free waveform to the next circuit, why would anyone need or want to 'upgrade' to something costing nearly £5000?

The DAC in my Omnia is doing what it is required to do and I know it's not the only necessary component in the system. I very much doubt anyone could tell the difference between 2 DACs, with ALL other things being equal.

I think the most expensive DAC chip is around £50 and from AKM. You need so many more chips and parts to turn your data into music.

AKM make so many chips!

Audio D/A Converters | Audio Components | Products | Asahi Kasei Microdevices (AKM)

AKM’s audio D/A converters (DACs) provide solutions for high quality audio system with the original digital-analog mixing technology.

www.akm.com

 

[Cork]

... What is to gain from adding an external DAC costing £4700??

My sentiments exactly. Both the OPPO and Yamaha use versions of ESS Sabre DACs, which are decent products. I don't think throwing money at a DAC is going to improve anything in my system. If I weren't so lazy, room treatments would probably get me the biggest bang.

 

[Al ears]

My sentiments exactly. Both the OPPO and Yamaha use versions of ESS Sabre DACs, which are decent products. I don't think throwing money at a DAC is going to improve anything in my system. If I weren't so lazy, room treatments would probably get me the biggest bang.

I guess there are purists that would say if you need room treatment you bought the wrong system but, in modern homes you may have a point. This is something I would be very hard pushed to get past the better half....

 

[Gray]

What would I pay?
I have paid under £100 for what I consider to be a very decent DAC.

Some people like R2R DACs for their more 'analogue sound' (their words not mine).

You may have seen this reviewer. I like him - even if he does have a cable believers mindset.
If nothing else, he's heard loads of DACs - and always makes logical value comparisons.
The latest two he's reviewed cost more than I would consider paying - I haven't heard them, but I'd be amazed if I preferred their sound to my Khadas Toneboard in a blind test.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH3L1JOAOaw

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hODejPW2srw

 

[Gray]

If I weren't so lazy, room treatments would probably get me the biggest bang.

There's no probably about it cork - don't be lazy

 

[daytona600]

£10 Chi-Fi to Wadax £400,000

 

[Vincent Kars]

what differentiates the cheap from more expensive

The more expensive ones have a higher distortion level: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ti-m1se-stereo-dac-review.52782/#post-1905562

 

[Jasonovich]

I have often looked at the prices of DACs thinking that sometime in the future I may have to buy one.
What would you consider paying for one and what differentiates the cheap from more expensive?
can they really perform so much differently seeing that their main purpose is simply to convert an analogue signal to an analog one?
I was really interested in the latest HiFi Rose RD160 until I saw the price
Is this madness??

I'm not sure how much you want to spend AI?
If it's mid range, below are the current flavours. R2R DACs are getting a lot of traction. Check out below. You don't have to go to AliExpress, there are EU and UK distributers as these are popular brands.

Denafrips ares 15. dac r2r archi tettura dsd, koaxial x1 opt x 1, i2s x 1, usb2.0b, digitale signal verarbeitung durch fpga - AliExpress 44

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

GUSTARD DAC-R26 Discrete R2R DAC I2S Bluetooth LAN AirPlay Roon DLNA 32bit 768kHz DSD512 MQA Black - Audiophonics

Gustard unveils with its DAC-R26 an absolutely exceptional digital to analog converter. This one uses an R2R architecture using discrete components of very high quality and perfectly optimized to offer exceptional sound performances.

www.audiophonics.fr

Denafrips ares 15. dac r2r archi tettura dsd, koaxial x1 opt x 1, i2s x 1, usb2.0b, digitale signal verarbeitung durch fpga - AliExpress 44

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Vorbestellung TOPPING D90III Discrete PSRM Tech Vollständig diskreter 1-Bit-HiFi-DAC mit kabelloser LDAC-Unterstützung für Audioqualität in CD - AliExpress 44

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Vorbestellung Topping D90 III Säbel voll ausgeglichen Hifi Dac Dual Ess9039Spro Decodierung Wireless USB MQA Full Decoder Vorverstärker - AliExpress 44

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Gustard DAC-R26 diskrete r2r dac mit streamer renderer roon xmos usb dsd512 pcm768k iis dsd1024 k2 uhr lan 1bit dac - AliExpress 44

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Gustard r26 diskreter r2r decoder native dsd dac mit streamer/renderer pcm768k dsd512 bluetooth ldac xu216 k2 iis decoder quloos - AliExpress 44

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[Jasonovich]

What would I pay?
I have paid under £100 for what I consider to be a very decent DAC.

Some people like R2R DACs for their more 'analogue sound' (their words not mine).

You may have seen this reviewer. I like him - even if he does have a cable believers mindset.
If nothing else, he's heard loads of DACs - and always makes logical value comparisons.
The latest two he's reviewed cost more than I would consider paying - I haven't heard them, but I'd be amazed if I preferred their sound to my Khadas Toneboard in a blind test.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH3L1JOAOaw

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hODejPW2srw

The new Gustard R2R DAC is out, is it better than Holo, Denafrips? There's also the new Topping D90III discrete.

 

[Gray]

The new Gustard R2R DAC is out, is it better than Holo, Denafrips? There's also the new Topping D90III discrete.

But no question (in my mind) that sort of money could be better put toward better speakers.

 

[manicm]

The more expensive ones have a higher distortion level: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ti-m1se-stereo-dac-review.52782/#post-1905562

You're generalising. I've never heard of this make before, but it doesn't mean other similarly priced DACs will have such distortion.

To answer AI Ears, everything is relative. 5k turntable cartridges are as common as VWs, so a 5k DAC from Hifi Rose should be a steal as it has many more applications.

To respond to another commenter - yes a chip itself may only cost 50 quid, but what is now common knowledge is that's only one part of a DAC component. There's the clock, there's the implementation, custom or otherwise, especially if using FPGA ones, there's the quality of the analogue output stage, there's the power supply etc etc.

Everything can be made to sound better at a price.

Me? I'm going against the zeitgeist where I don't see the need of a standalone DAC.

 

[Rodolfo]

I have often looked at the prices of DACs thinking that sometime in the future I may have to buy one.
What would you consider paying for one and what differentiates the cheap from more expensive?
can they really perform so much differently seeing that their main purpose is simply to convert an analogue signal to an analog one?
I was really interested in the latest HiFi Rose RD160 until I saw the price
Is this madness??

Yes.

Into my 8th decade, I've never needed a dedicated DAC, and I don't expect to develop a taste for one in the future.

I do own/have already paid for an integrated amp, three CD players, two or three DAPs, and two or three smartphones, each with adequate to excellent built-in DACs that are all designed to convert everything I require very nicely, seamlessly, and automatically.

 

[Friesiansam]

I would not be buying a stand-alone DAC, unless I were to decide to switch to a 2 box solution, to replace my Pathos Converto. With that in mind, I would be prepared to spend a grand plus for a DAC. However, what I have is good enough to make my ears happy and, I suspect the Pathos is good enough to do a good job, of driving better headphones than Focal Elegias.

 

[Jasonovich]

But no question (in my mind) that sort of money could be better put toward better speakers.

True, a nice pair of speakers or even upgrading the amp will make the biggest difference. AI I suspect is savvy in all things speakers and amps, I assume he's got that covered. 🙂

 

[Jasonovich]

You could disband the idea of stand-alone DAC, something that doesn't give up too much in the very finest quality. Such as all in one digital transport, DAC streamer.
You can also insert SSD inside the unit or use USB to access your music files.
Check out The Aurelic Altair G1.
Not sure how this compares to the Eversolo DMP-A8.

Big price reduction at Strictly Stereo .

Auralic Altair G1.1 Streaming DAC

Discover the Auralic Altair G1.1 streaming DAC and experience uncompromised sound quality, versatile connectivity options and integrated music streaming.

strictlystereo.com

 

[skinnypuppy71]

Hi Al..I never hesitate in recommending NJC audio kit....thier reference series dac is very good...I have all three of thier products and am very happy with all of them....hand built in Devon by a couple of enthusiastic engineers that really provide you with a personal service...re build time and build information. .whenever I do decide to go for a mc cartridge I will be adding the step-up transformer to the njc phono stage, which again is excellent, OK won't be Tom Evans level but keeps me entertained.

 

[Al ears]

True, a nice pair of speakers or even upgrading the amp will make the biggest difference. AI I suspect is savvy in all things speakers and amps, I assume he's got that covered. 🙂

That's why I wanted a DAC only, no point in paying for preamp when you already have a good integrated.

 

[Jasonovich]

That's why I wanted a DAC only, no point in paying for preamp when you already have a good integrated.

Yes I suppose you can always use the Oppo as digital transport or laptop.

 

[DougK1]

My CDP is my only DAC and it performs both duties perfectly, my streamer is a cheap small form factor PC. Personally I can't see the point of adding another box with just a DAC in it, two boxes is more than enough for me

 

[Revolutions]

The Organik dac in my Linn is £3k as a standalone upgrade 😶‍🌫️

It does sound ridiculous, although I’ve only compared it to the WiiM pro plus via my old preamp. So no real idea whether a unit 1/10th of the price would do the same job.

 

[Revolutions]

Just got an email from Sevenoaks about a new Ruark streamer - looks pretty cool, although will have to sound damn good for £1,119 (*edit* changed price as I made a typo). They have matching speakers too that will be competing with some excellent models at the same price point (£699).

Ruark Audio R610 Streaming System

The Ruark R610 Music Console delivers aesthetic appeal seldom seen among hi-fi components and this same devotion to detail is matched within. Powering R610 is a modern switch mode power supply, providing optimised powerlines to the system’s motherboard and latest generation digital amplifiers.

www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk

 

[Jasonovich]

Just got an email from Sevenoaks about a new Ruark streamer - looks pretty cool, although will have to sound damn good for £1,999. They have matching speakers too that will be competing with some excellent models at the same price point (£699).

Ruark Audio R610 Streaming System

The Ruark R610 Music Console delivers aesthetic appeal seldom seen among hi-fi components and this same devotion to detail is matched within. Powering R610 is a modern switch mode power supply, providing optimised powerlines to the system’s motherboard and latest generation digital amplifiers.

www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk

The Seven oaks price has shot down to £1,119. That makes it an excellent proposition for anyone looking for a DAC streamer.
I know Ruark for their speakers, my work colleague was going to sell top end model for giveaway price £150 because these were massive and she wanted to replace them with wireless Bose speakers, how awful. I showed my wife the photos of the Ruark and it was a NO 🙃
Nice these famous British brands are branching into other things other than their original product base.
Love the walnut and the dial remote control looks pretty neat. 👍